Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #40

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  • #801
The thing is that we keep hearing that it's unlikely for a child to turn 'blue' all over, like the 'blue' in the monitor. Things like blue lips can occur during an asthma attack or a severe allergy attack and are not necessarily a sign of irreversible death. So even if he had a baby monitor that could show a blue child, it seems unlikely it would be all that noticeable from the monitor, plus the child could be revivable if paramedics can get there fast.

And this thing about seeing Shanann 'actively' strangling a child on the monitor. I am curious to find out whether the monitor is positioned in such a way that he could see that or if he would only see Shanann's back as she bends over the child and wouldn't look any different from bending over kissing the child goodnight. It's possible that he could lie about the position he says he saw Shanann in to match where she would have to be in order to be seen on the monitor, but I'm curious to see if that's possible from the monitor position.
Wow! Excellent point about SW's position on the baby monitor! Small monitor screen would probably make it appear she was bending over kissing the child! Or checking the child. Of course it never happened, but it proves how badly he lies!
 
  • #802
IMO we know very little. I think there's way more that we don't know yet. It's hard to find evidence when so little has been made public.
jmo

There are obviously things we don't know yet but there are quite a few things we do know. See Gitana's long list at the beginning of every thread. Those are things we DO know and some people think 2 + 2 = 4 in this case. As I said, I refuse to minimize what we already know about CW in the hopes of what may be to come. If something more comes out, then I will reevaluate my opinion.
 
  • #803
IMO we know very little. I think there's way more that we don't know yet. It's hard to find evidence when so little has been made public.
jmo
Yes, we most likely will hear much more if there is a trial, as they will probably look deeply into their relationship and maybe even their past. Jmo
 
  • #804
We have plenty of evidence of a man who hid the bodies of his little girls and wife, who lied about their whereabouts, who lied about having an affair. Who showed no grief at the deaths of his family and smiled and laughed while telling these lies.
Is that what an innocent man does?

BBM. Don’t forget he’s confessed to murdering his pregnant wife.
 
  • #805
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  • #806
No, I haven't forgotten that. I also haven't forgotten that he dumped his little girls in filthy crude oil to hide them and then lied about it.
 
  • #807
No, I haven't forgotten that. I also haven't forgotten that he dumped his little girls in filthy crude oil to hide them and then lied about it.

My point is, he’s not exactly “innocent.”
 
  • #808
Do we know if the babysitter came to their house OR did he take them to the babysitter?

Do we even know for sure there was a babysitter that night? I've seen he had a babysitter that night and then I've seen it wasn't that night, she had just babysat for them in the past. If he did get a sitter on Saturday night, you can bet that is one of the first things LE did, find out where he went that night.
 
  • #809
Wow! Excellent point about SW's position on the baby monitor! Small monitor screen would probably make it appear she was bending over kissing the child! Or checking the child. Of course it never happened, but it proves how badly he lies!
Yes, that's a really good point. She would have had to be in such a position so as not to block his view of the child's upper body. I'm sure they will be able to tell by how the monitor was set up. If another person leaning over the child completely blocks the view, it will prove it not possible. And he probably would not have thought of it before since he likely never viewed another person in the room when checking the monitor. Jmo
 
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  • #810
My point is, he’s not exactly “innocent.”
Of course he is not. LE found enough evidence to charge him with all of their murders with evidence.
No one has come up with any evidence that SW killed the children. Just belief of a proven liar.
 
  • #811
BBM. Don’t forget he’s confessed to murdering his pregnant wife.
Yes, he admitted to killing (not sure he would term it as murder since he appears to be citing mitigating circumstances) his wife and fetus. But I would argue that his post-killing behavior is only consistent with a man guilty of committing all the murders with premeditation (no calls to 911, hiding the bodies of his children along with evidence that would prove his story, showing no known signs of devastation/grief/remorse after his Greek tragedy storyline). IMO it does not fit otherwise.
 
  • #812
Yes, that's a really good point. She would have had to be in such a position so as not to block his view of the child's face. I'm sure they will be able to tell by how the monitor was set up. If another person leaning over the child completely blocks the view, it will prove it not possible. And he probably would not have thought of it before since he likely never viewed another person in the room when checking the monitor. Jmo
If memory serves, the video we have of the monitor by SW on FB (for set up at that time...we don't know if it was moved later) shows the monitor set up from the angle at the narrow portion ("foot") of the crib. Technically, I can see it being argued that you could see strangling occurring. Of course I do not believe that is what happened, however.
 
  • #813
My point is, he’s not exactly “innocent.”
How is he innocent, in any way? In a case as horrific as this, how can there be degrees of innocence.? We know his guilt, all of the things of which he's guilty, and it's a long list. What implies his innocence?
 
  • #814
We have plenty of evidence of a man who hid the bodies of his little girls and wife, who lied about their whereabouts, who lied about having an affair. Who showed no grief at the deaths of his family and smiled and laughed while telling these lies.
Is that what an innocent man does?

We know he's not innocent - he confessed to killing his wife and unborn son. That's why he hid the bodies and lied about it. I'm not willing to convict CW for murdering his daughters without more evidence. For me personally, I would feel horrible if I wrongly accused somebody of such a horrendous and unthinkable crime without more evidence. I realize not everyone feels the same way and some have no problem saying horrid comments about him murdering his daughters, but it doesn't feel right for me to do that. Maybe I'm naive, have too much empathy, too soft hearted or just plain wrong. I don't know....it's just doesn't feel right for me.
jmo
 
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  • #815
Do we even know for sure there was a babysitter that night? I've seen he had a babysitter that night and then I've seen it wasn't that night, she had just babysat for them in the past. If he did get a sitter on Saturday night, you can bet that is one of the first things LE did, find out where he went that night.
IMO, the rendezvous occurred Saturday night when CW allegedly left girls with babysitter. Possible there were 2 visits (Sat/Sun) but not probable...MOO
And more unconfirmed stories where he went. We'll know for certain if/when babysitter testifies at trial.
 
  • #816
It would be interesting if the defense went down the path of TBI or some sort of brain damage that could potentially justify the flawed thinking of CW.

He reacted to SW choking the children by choking her, and disposed of the bodies.

The problem with this defense, is the subsequent lying to LEO, and news people. That will be the point to hit home for the prosecution. What caused this behavior?

And, even if CW does/did have some sort of trauma, it still does not rule out life in prison, with a finding of guilty on all counts. Aaron Hernandez definitely had brain damage, and was still sentenced to prison for murder.


I tried to look into TBI as a symptom and it seems that so many active athletes get traumatized. The only definitive way to diagnose chronic traumatic encephalopathy is postmortem, they say.

Yes, Aaron Hernandez Suffered Brain Injury. But That May Not Explain His Violence.

Aaron Hernandez also carried genetic marker for "certain brain diseases". (I think I know what it was, but don't want to mention, as it is not in mainstream articles - maybe the court proceeding is not over?).

Aaron Hernandez suffered from most severe CTE ever found in a person his age

Anyhow, unless you have a history of CW playing aggressive sports, or having a severe brain trauma (diagnosed), or a family history of Alzheimer's or other early dementing illnesses, it won't fly in court.
 
  • #817
That’s your choice, and I respect that. But y’all have to respect others’ choice to look at both sides. We can play nicely here. JMO
What exactly are " both sides "?
 
  • #818
There are obviously things we don't know yet but there are quite a few things we do know. See Gitana's long list at the beginning of every thread. Those are things we DO know and some people think 2 + 2 = 4 in this case. As I said, I refuse to minimize what we already know about CW in the hopes of what may be to come. If something more comes out, then I will reevaluate my opinion.
I've been following the case since the beginning. I'm well aware of the list at the start of each thread, but thanks for the tip.
 
  • #819
I have a question about one of the charges, “unlawful termination of pregnancy”. Is that the charge for the loss of the fetus, since CO doesn’t have a fetal homicide law? Or could CW have tried to abort the baby?
The Prosecutor explained at the press conference - that is the mechanism they use to encompass killing of her fetus as she was killed. CO does not have a fetal homicide law, as you stated. CW illegally terminated her pregnancy when he killed her....
 
  • #820
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