Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #41

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  • #801
I found a Real Crime show on youtube last night on Neil and Rachel (and Lilly Rose, their 9 month old daughter) Entwistle. I found it very "on point" for this case. **Note if you read my post last night about Chris Coleman, I mistakenly referred to James List when I meant to say Christian Longo (had my FAs mixed up for a moment - what is it with FAs named Chris by the way??).

So many parallels with CW IMO with the Entwistle case. For those unfamiliar (I was): About 30 year old British guy with an American wife. He was quiet, shy, well liked, educated, and good looking. She was a teacher who loved kids and was considered very outgoing and full of life. In this case, as a computer savvy guy of the times (early 2000s), he is the one who creates and posts pictures online on a family web site of their life and travels and has a tag line of "happy family" for the pics with their new daughter on the site. Meet in England and move to Massachusetts. Her father bonds with him and teaches him how to shoot guns at his club (big mistake). He point blank shoots her and the 9 month old daughter while she is holding the baby in bed. He then drives to the airport (Boston) and flies home to England to stay with his parents, never reporting a thing. When authorities find his wife and child on a wellness check days later, they get ahold of him by phone and he says he just found them like that and in a state of shock, left. His story changes multiple times over the years. First he says he drove toward her parents house to get a gun to shoot himself after he "found" them like that because he was at a store when it happened, but no one was home so he left for the UK. He was asked on the phone call with police how he knew they were dead and he said he saw a gun shot burn hole on the baby's jumper but didn't see anything on the wife. So he just assumed she had been shot, too. Later, he is arrested (before it looks like he was about to go on the run after staying with his parents) and extradited. At trial...shocker...comes a new story by the defense after it has been figured out her father's gun was used in the crime (so how did a stranger do it?). Now he says he had found the gun on the bed and blames his wife - his wife had shot herself and the baby. To protect her reputation for being a murderer and committing suicide, he says took the gun and left. At trial they prove she couldn't have shot her baby (the bullet went through the baby and into her plus another in her head) even though there is gun residue on the front and back of her hands (a point people, including his parents and brother, cling to to this day as evidence of his innocence). No gun residue is found in his car that he drove at some point afterward to the airport. He does not testify. Unsurprisingly, like all FA fathers, he has a SECRET LIFE. He lied about proceeds from his old job and was living on credit cards in America while living the high life. He was trying to produce hard core 🤬🤬🤬🤬 sites and frequently trolled for escorts online. Was even online after the murders trolling for escorts on his computer (at the house). Her family and friends felt re-victimized by him blaming it all on his wife and throwing mud at her at trial. Also, no surprise, a fangirl who wrote to him after trial years later was convinced of his innocence until he wrote her of seeing the look in his wife's eyes when she pulled the trigger and his daughter call out in pain, hence putting himself now in the room at the time of the killings even though he had always maintained he wasn't home. Now, she is convinced he is guilty after all. Anyway, amazing parallels IMO, no?

Interesting! There are so many similarities to other murderers, it's like CW studied FA cases before he did it himself. I'd like to watch - can you please post the link?
 
  • #802
Interesting! There are so many similarities to other murderers, it's like CW studied FA cases before he did it himself. I'd like to watch - can you please post the link?
Yes, did not know I could do so here. It is four parts (each about 15 minutes):
 
  • #803
  • #804
  • #805
After watching a lot of videos of the kids I think he had their personalities correct-- Bella is quieter and CeCe is a ball of energy all the time, HOWEVER, I don't think those words were HIS words. He says Bella is "calm, cautious, mothering type and shes more like me" which makes no sense-- Is CW calling himself motherly? He quickly adds again that she is "calm" as if he realizes that it didn't sound right to say he his 4 year old picked up "mothering" traits from him, and he wants to emphasize that he is the calm type. But it makes sense that Shanann might say something like at and she did say that Bella "is motherly like me (SW)" here: Shanann Watts

I think if this interview had been a high school book report, CW would have plagiarized the entire thing. IMO, he didn't know his family, he just knew how to repeat words others had said. Which makes me wonder if perhaps while Shannan was in AZ she told CW to make sure the girls were eating well (no dessert before dinner) and be sure to turn on their rain machines so they could sleep. Things that a parent who was away would worry about telling an occasional caregiver not to forget but no parent would choose as things they will miss when their children are "missing". MOO.
Was a word he used for CeCe "Rampage" ?
 
  • #806
I found a Real Crime show on youtube last night on Neil and Rachel (and Lilly Rose, their 9 month old daughter) Entwistle. Shoult out to PommyMommy for the article about him! I found it very "on point" for this case. **Note if you read my post last night about Chris Coleman, I mistakenly referred to James List when I meant to say Christian Longo (had my FAs mixed up for a moment - what is it with FAs named Chris by the way??).

So many parallels with CW IMO with the Entwistle case. For those unfamiliar (I was): About 30 year old British guy with an American wife. He was quiet, shy, well liked, educated, and good looking. She was a teacher who loved kids and was considered very outgoing and full of life. In this case, as a computer savvy guy of the times (early 2000s), he is the one who creates and posts pictures online on a family web site of their life and travels and has a tag line of "happy family" for the pics with their new daughter on the site. Meet in England and move to Massachusetts. Her father bonds with him and teaches him how to shoot guns at his club (big mistake). He point blank shoots her and the 9 month old daughter while she is holding the baby in bed. He then drives to the airport (Boston) and flies home to England to stay with his parents, never reporting a thing. When authorities find his wife and child on a wellness check days later, they get ahold of him by phone and he says he just found them like that and in a state of shock, left. His story changes multiple times over the years. First he says he drove toward her parents house to get a gun to shoot himself after he "found" them like that because he was at a store when it happened, but no one was home so he left for the UK. He was asked on the phone call with police how he knew they were dead and he said he saw a gun shot burn hole on the baby's jumper but didn't see anything on the wife. So he just assumed she had been shot, too. Later, he is arrested (before it looks like he was about to go on the run after staying with his parents) and extradited. At trial...shocker...comes a new story by the defense after it has been figured out her father's gun was used in the crime (so how did a stranger do it?). Now he says he had found the gun on the bed and blames his wife - his wife had shot herself and the baby. To protect her reputation for being a murderer and committing suicide, he says took the gun and left. At trial they prove she couldn't have shot her baby (the bullet went through the baby and into her plus another in her head) even though there is gun residue on the front and back of her hands (a point people, including his parents and brother, cling to to this day as evidence of his innocence). No gun residue is found in his car that he drove at some point afterward to the airport. He does not testify. Unsurprisingly, like all FA fathers, he has a SECRET LIFE. He lied about proceeds from his old job and was living on credit cards in America while living the high life. He was trying to produce hard core 🤬🤬🤬🤬 sites and frequently trolled for escorts online. Was even online after the murders trolling for escorts on his computer (at the house). Her family and friends felt re-victimized by him blaming it all on his wife and throwing mud at her at trial. Also, no surprise, a fangirl who wrote to him after trial years later was convinced of his innocence until he wrote her of seeing the look in his wife's eyes when she pulled the trigger and his daughter call out in pain, hence putting himself now in the room at the time of the killings even though he had always maintained he wasn't home. Now, she is convinced he is guilty after all. Anyway, amazing parallels IMO, no?

Thank you for this summary, and the parallels are amazing indeed.

NE and CW: just two peas in a FA pod, IMO. Jmo
 
  • #807
Was a word he used for CeCe "Rampage" ?
And he referred to one of them as a "troublemaker". That seemed weird (IMHO) for a father with a missing family to say. Just didn't sit right with me.
 
  • #808
Interesting! There are so many similarities to other murderers, it's like CW studied FA cases before he did it himself. I'd like to watch - can you please post the link?
It almost feels like there’s a script out there somewhere.

Nick Matos, in his early 30's, confessed to killing four people. When an attorney asked what that day was like for him, he said, "It was the worst day of my life, a horrible experience, like a nightmare I couldn’t wake up from.Adam Matos guilty in brutal Hudson quadruple-murder

And who could forget Jodi Arias? "I wished it was a nightmare I could wake up from and find out that everything was the same way it was before." Jodi Arias trial: Murder suspect can't remember most of killing

Chris Watts, in his 30's, confessed, is accused of killing four people and said, "It’s like a nightmare I can’t wake up from." Chris Watts: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com
MOO
 
  • #809
Thank you for this summary, and the parallels are amazing indeed.

NE and CW: just two peas in a FA pod, IMO. Jmo
Yes, and IMO (only going off what was said on the show), there was less evidence of guilt in the NE case than here so far. He was basically convicted IMO on (1) his strange and not at all devastated 2 hour phone conversation with a MASS police detective the jury got to hear, (2) his behavior, changing story, and actions following the murders, and (3) his debt and online sex habits. From what they said, there were NO signs he was "off" noticed by others before this happened.
 
  • #810
  • #811
Was a word he used for CeCe "Rampage" ?

Yes. Here's the quote:
He spoke glowingly about his daughters, telling the news station, “Celeste. She’s just a bottle of energy. She’s – I call her rampage because she’s got two speeds: go or she’s sleeping. Bella. She’s the more calm, cautious, mothering type and she’s more like me – she’s more calm.”
Chris Watts: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

I wonder where he got that word for his 3 year old?
Perhaps they went to see this movie? Rampage (2018 film) - Wikipedia
 
  • #812
Yes, and IMO (only going off what was said on the show), there was less evidence of guilt in the NE case than here so far. He was basically convicted IMO on (1) his strange and not at all devastated 2 hour phone conversation with a MASS police detective the jury got to hear, (2) his behavior, changing story, and actions following the murders, and (3) his debt and online sex habits. From what they said, there were NO signs he was "off" noticed by others before this happened.
I'm so glad you took the time to read the article (IIRC, I think it was gitana1 who first shared it here) and watch the Real Crime videos.

We've been saying for 41 threads now, that the fact there were NO SIGNS fits with the profile of a family annihilator and is one of the biggest reasons that people can't believe it when this happens. It would make it oh so much clearer if people would take the time to review some of these cases. It's like a light bulb goes off in your head!

MOO
 
  • #813
Hmm. Interesting. Do you think it changes depending on how high profile the case is or what they're charged with?

I've been very scared that he will kill himself the first chance he gets. Who said recently they think he won't make it to 40?

I never followed any annihilator cases before except the wealthy guy by Minneapolis who took out his family because of finances. Different from this.

The oter cases on here are like twins or quintuplets or whatever. Longo, Coleman. They did not kill themselves so not sure he will either. Especially now that he is popular with lots of women.
 
  • #814
I'm so glad you took the time to read the article (IIRC, I think it was gitana1 who first shared it here) and watch the Real Crime videos.

We've been saying for 41 threads now, that the fact there were NO SIGNS fits with the profile of a family annihilator and is one of the biggest reasons that people can't believe it when this happens. It would make it oh so much clearer if people would take the time to review some of these cases. It's like a light bulb goes off in your head!

MOO
I could NOT have said this better myself! It really does make sense of it all. Wouldn't it be nice if it were required reading/watching/listening before sleuthing? I should have done this a while ago and only found the time because things are slow right now with no new info released. Thanks again for making these comparisons! Do we know of any others that fit this closely with this case besides (in order IMO of how close it fits): Entwistle, Longo, Peterson, and Coleman?
 
  • #815
I never followed any annihilator cases before except the wealthy guy by Minneapolis who took out his family because of finances. Different from this.

The oter cases on here are like twins or quintuplets or whatever. Longo, Coleman. They did not kill themselves so not sure he will either. Especially now that he is popular with lots of women.

CL didn't have twins or quints. He had a 2 year old, 3 year old, and 4 year old.
 
  • #816
  • #817
I'm so glad you took the time to read the article (IIRC, I think it was gitana1 who first shared it here) and watch the Real Crime videos.

We've been saying for 41 threads now, that the fact there were NO SIGNS fits with the profile of a family annihilator and is one of the biggest reasons that people can't believe it when this happens. It would make it oh so much clearer if people would take the time to review some of these cases. It's like a light bulb goes off in your head!

MOO

These guys are all so much alike that it's a little freaky.
 
  • #818
I'm so glad you took the time to read the article (IIRC, I think it was gitana1 who first shared it here) and watch the Real Crime videos.

We've been saying for 41 threads now, that the fact there were NO SIGNS fits with the profile of a family annihilator and is one of the biggest reasons that people can't believe it when this happens. It would make it oh so much clearer if people would take the time to review some of these cases. It's like a light bulb goes off in your head!

MOO
I've reviewed them.
 
  • #819
Eww... :eek:

I doubt he saw any bubbles rising up in those dark tanks, but let's not give any ideas to the defense. It has been suggested that CW placing the girls in the oil was somehow "symbolic" or "loving". Next they will be saying he wanted to let his beloved girls be just like their favorite cartoon!
o_O:rolleyes::eek::mad::(

Symbolic and loving? Wow that’s pretty sick. Was that from a “devils advocate” talking head or a guest comment on AB? Even if he didn’t kill them (which he did) putting them in oil tanks is the opposite of loving and I can’t imagine what’s symbolic about it. I can’t imagine anyone thinking those babies being in crude oil was in any way a positive thing. This is a perfect example of bending over backgrounds to make every excuse for this man.
 
  • #820
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