Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #41

[Shekkiec]

It is interesting to me ,never has the media been considered that they are leaking certain stories , even when CW defense team filed a motion as to such . However one story from People which states he has a bible in the cell and a photograph, seems deemed a strategic move from defense. I thought the Bible would’ve been standard approved reading in jail. I see no intricate information that is new in this article. People uses unamed sourced daily imo with the same information written in a slightly different format under a new headline. Imo

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Above BBM.
That is exactly the first thing that stood out to me. "It appears the government is claiming to be concerned with Mr. Watts' constitutional rights." Them's fighting words, IMO.

Do you think the defense may try to use this for grounds to an appeal, if convicted? Unfair trial (before it even started), because the prosecution leaked info to the media? It would be hard to prove, IMO- but will they try?

I haven't followed a case from the arrest to the trial where this hasn't been stated. Isn't it a matter of course? I eagerly await @gitana1 response.

 

[JudgeJudi]

@MassGuy.

RSBM

“The plan may have been vague, and it certainly wasn’t well executed, but things would look very different had Shanann’s friend not acted as early and aggressively as she did.

I just don’t think we have enough information to discern premeditation here”.

I see you and I are still sitting in our respective places where we were weeks ago.

Planning and premeditation are not mutually exclusive.

Premeditation is often defined as any planning or design to cause the death. It can mean the time it takes to pull a trigger, or in this case, strangling which takes minutes to complete. He could have chosen to stop.

US case law:

In Chisley v. State,...the Court of Appeals defined the time element required for a finding of premeditation as follows:

"[t]he time need not be long. It must be sufficient for some reflection and consideration upon the matter, for choice to kill or not to kill, and for the formation of a definite purpose to kill. And when the time is sufficient for this, it matters not how brief it is."...

“In his excellent discussion of the meaning of premeditation in Smith v. State,...Judge Moylan noted that "the period of time required for premeditation and deliberation in first degree murder is only that which is necessary for one thought to follow another."..."For a killing to be premeditated, there 'need be no appreciable space of time between the intention to kill and the act of killing—they may be as instantaneous as successive thoughts of the mind.'"

“Applying this legal framework to the facts at hand, the court then concluded that:

Even without any other evidence of [Hounshell]'s mental state, the jury could have concluded, as it apparently did, that within the time it took [Hounshell] to strangle the victim to death, [Hounshell] achieved the necessary mental state which constituted the crime of first degree premeditated murder. Logic and common sense dictate that for one person to strangle another person to death, a significant length of time must pass for the victim to die. This time period in which the perpetrator must continuously exert sufficient force on the victim's throat to block the victim's breathing affords the perpetrator a significant opportunity for reflection and a change of heart”.

Premeditation & Manual Strangulation

I rest my case.

 

[Jennifer17]

It is interesting to me ,never has the media been considered that they are leaking certain stories , even when CW defense team filed a motion as to such . However one story from People which states he has a bible in the cell and a photograph, seems deemed a strategic move from defense. I thought the Bible would’ve been standard approved reading in jail. I see no intricate information that is new in this article. People uses unamed sourced daily imo with the same information written in a slightly different format under a new headline. Imo

What leaks have you seen which are damaging to him?

 

[dixiegirl1035]

If there are sensors on the tanks to monitor a rise or fall in volume and he put one girl in each tank to limit the change in volume and avoid setting off alarms; that could be premeditation. He had certain knowledge and used it in planning the crime.

there was definitely a reason why he put them in two tanks. That would have taken longer because he would have had to take off the top for each one. If it was not for setting off alarms, what other reason might it have been? I'm scratching my brain is to what other reason on Earth there could have been why he did it in two tanks versus one which would have been easier. And done more quickly.

 

[katydid23]

Oh I think they're doing a great job.

The timing of that precious bit of PR about poor, sweet Chris reading the Bible and staring at his dead family, being released just before their angry motion response in which they basically throw up their hands (it's coming out anyhow) and call out the state for enabling leaking that makes the golden boy look bad, while claiming to care about his rights?

Perfect.

They don't have much to work with but they're working it well.

As a litigator I've got to give credit where credit is due.

I agree. So, if it is true that the family has been asking about new lawyer references, it is curious.

 

[mtnlites]

What does detected mean, That is an unusual term.

The operator saw the grave?

In this case I assume they are just using the word as a replacement for "deduced" or "saw." I regularly use "detected" to mean that I observed something and reached a conclusion: From the Rice Crispies on the floor, I detected that my kid had struggled with the cereal box. Or: I knew the kitchen would be a mess and, sure enough, I soon detected Rice Crispies all over the floor.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

There is one on the main key pad. But there may be other ones as well, I am not sure.

I knew they had an alarm system like I have, but mine is not monitored. Does anyone have a link did it was monitored for an alert such as that??

Or is it just an assumption that it was a monitored alarm system.

 

[MyBelle]

IMO we don't know very much and IMO there's a lot more to come out. The digital footprint and the autopsies could tell us more. I can't say what I'm specifically waiting for when I don't know what we don't know.
jmo

There is a lot more to come out. We still don't know cause of death and whether it fits with CW's story. I'd like to know more about their relationship prior to their move to CO and the "dark" period SW has talked about in videos. CW seems to have been her knight in shining armor during her health crisis.
Shanann Watts Met Husband Chris Online During Dark Period 8 Years Before Murder: 'He Is Amazing'

 

[Thepoet]

I don't know. I suspect it shows all three were strangled. That's as far as I can go.

If there was anything remotely exculpatory they'd request a bail hearing.

I don't think their response has anything to do with trying to control the timing of the release.

Excellent, thanks. I've thought all along, as you said, anything exculpatory and defense would seek bail.

If the autopsy shows all three were strangled, could it also show the bruise pattern on all three match his (size and shape) hands? Couldn't that have been the reason for prosecutions earlier motion regarding CW's hands (and feet)?

 

[Gardener1850]

With the close proximity of the neighbors’ houses, driveways, and yards it amazes me that no one heard anything except for the barking dog. Or even in the past, arguments, fighting, yelling etc. They must be well insulated homes.

JMO, I don't think their houses were very well insulated. There was construction going on behind their home and in some of Shanann's videos you can hear the faint sound of construction noise in the background. IMO, this makes it likely that no major argument ever occurred. I think it was surprise attack and neither Shanann nor the girls saw it coming. Once he is choking them they cannot make a sound. One thing that I have wondered about is the girl's "rain machines" and how much they might have damped the noise of any struggle. I assume these are some sort of white noise machines. Does anyone know what brand they used?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I understand that as you've stated it many times. Everyone wants more information about CW because we'd like to understand what drove him to act the way he did.

However, it's just as important to know more about Shanann as well because there's another side to her other than the one portrayed in the Thrive videos. There were two people in the relationship and we need to understand as much as possible about each of them.

I'd still like to know if you've read the Bella Marie blog though because that's more information about the sort of person Shanann was. It was done for no-one else's benefit other than her unborn child.

With so many FB video's, blogs and SM to look at I don't think it matters if I've looked at the Bella Marie Blog or not.
jmo

 

[Tippy Lynn]

IMO the digital footprint and autopsies will confirm or disprove what we know. In other words, not add new facts, but confirm existing facts.

Meanwhile, good answer. And the waiting continues.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

What leaks have you seen which are damaging to him?

Probably this -

The defense had previously cited a story in which a Frederick Police Department employee allegedly made comments to the media about "the credibility of defendant, as well as the identity and nature of physical evidence that has not been discussed on the record."
The court acknowledged in its denial of the initial request that if those allegations were proven true, it would be a violation of the pretrial publicity order, but called the allegations "unproven to date."

Watts defense challenges court ruling, again requests investigation into law enforcement

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Tippy, you say this on every thread. I actually really want to know which piece of information you are waiting for. What is that key piece that would really make a difference to you?

Maybe you missed my post a few posts up. The digital footprint and the autopsies could tell us more. I can't say what I'm specifically waiting for when I don't know what we don't know.

 

[Jennifer17]

There is a lot more to come out. We still don't know cause of death and whether it fits with CW's story. I'd like to know more about their relationship prior to their move to CO and the "dark" period SW has talked about in videos. CW seems to have been her knight in shining armor during her health crisis.
Shanann Watts Met Husband Chris Online During Dark Period 8 Years Before Murder: 'He Is Amazing'

How do you think a depressive illness before she even met him would affect the case?
Many, many people have depression after a marriage breakdown. Not many of them murder their children and somehow force their husbands to drop them in crude oil.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

@Tippy Lynn

SBM


However, the single thing that gave me the greatest insight into what she was really like is her Journey of Bella Marie blog. I’ve never seen anything like it. It’s simply beautiful. Have you read it? To me, this is the real Shanann.

Journey of Bella Marie: Bella Marie at 16 weeks

Oh my gosh, and she was killed at 15 weeks pregnant. You're making me cry. Another one for the prosecution to use, but I don't know if it will be more prejudicial and probative or whatever words they use to decide what comes into the trial.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Dedicated to little Dieter

Shanann

A Dog's Plea

Treat me kindly, my beloved friend, for no heart in all the world is more grateful for kindness than the loving heart of me.

Do not break my spirit with a stick, for although I should lick your hand between blows, your patience and understanding will quickly teach me the things you would have me learn.

Speak to me often, for your voice is the world’s sweetest music, as you must know by the fierce wagging of my tail when your footsteps fall upon my waiting ear.

Please take me inside when it is cold and wet, for I am a domesticated animal, no longer accustomed to bitter elements. I ask for no greater glory than the privilege of sitting at your feet beside the hearth. Keep my pan filled with fresh water, for I cannot tell you when I suffer thirst.

Feed me clean food that I may stay well, to romp and play and do your bidding, to walk by your side and stand ready, willing and able to protect you with my life, should your life be in danger.

And, my friend, when I am very old, and I no longer enjoy good health, hearing and sight, do not make heroic efforts to keep me going. I am not having any fun. Please see that my trusting life is taken gently. I shall leave this earth knowing with the last breath I draw that my fate was always safest in your hands.

Author Unknown

A Dog's Plea

 

[flourish]

Okay so suspending disbelief momentarily for a hypothetical. If IF CW's story were true, should he not be allowed to tell his story simply because SW is now dead? Should he be barred from using his defense because it's distasteful?

If so, why? Should he be expected to "protect" her good name and just take the fall for it all?

Again, suspending disbelief.... Should he not be allowed to tell his story even if it were true?

 

[Jennifer17]

Probably this -

The defense had previously cited a story in which a Frederick Police Department employee allegedly made comments to the media about "the credibility of defendant, as well as the identity and nature of physical evidence that has not been discussed on the record."
The court acknowledged in its denial of the initial request that if those allegations were proven true, it would be a violation of the pretrial publicity order, but called the allegations "unproven to date."

Watts defense challenges court ruling, again requests investigation into law enforcement

But aren't the prosecution and the police department separate entities?