Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #41

[Tippy Lynn]

If they are paying a monthly fee, then there is someone at the other end of that alarm sound, to send help if necessary. That's how ours was, and it was annoying because it would go off if it was too windy, or something odd happened, and the cops would roll up, lights and sirens. We canceled the subscription after too many false alarms.

Ha - I don't blame you.

 

[gitana1]

Above BBM.
That is exactly the first thing that stood out to me. "It appears the government is claiming to be concerned with Mr. Watts' constitutional rights." Them's fighting words, IMO.

Do you think the defense may try to use this for grounds to an appeal, if convicted? Unfair trial (before it even started), because the prosecution leaked info to the media? It would be hard to prove, IMO- but will they try?

Absolutely. And it won't work.

 

[gitana1]

I agree. So, if it is true that the family has been asking about new lawyer references, it is curious.

I've noticed that clients like to pick attorneys that most mirror their own personalities.

 

[WildWest]

I knew they had an alarm system like I have, but mine is not monitored. Does anyone have a link did it was monitored for an alert such as that??

Or is it just an assumption that it was a monitored alarm system.

Same question on if their apple watches were backing up to cloud or not monitored. At one point AB touched on that since they have a alexa/siri/echo/whatever that was hooked up to wifi it's possible all the electronics (including the alarm system) could be connected.

 

[Jennifer17]

If they are paying a monthly fee, then there is someone at the other end of that alarm sound, to send help if necessary. That's how ours was, and it was annoying because it would go off if it was too windy, or something odd happened, and the cops would roll up, lights and sirens. We canceled the subscription after too many false alarms.

Or an overnight guest opens the door early in the morning and steps out onto the balcony.
I have done that and it nearly frightened me to death.

 

[Mrspratcher]

Thanks for sharing, for someone like me who doesn’t understand legalities, does this mean the Defense are not against releasing the autopsy reports ? Does this mean they are more likely to be released now ? Ty in advance.

Ok, so the defense set forth three arguments in its response: (i) they don't know what potential witness would be tainted by the release of the results, nor are there aware of the nexus between the witnesses and the results; they want a hearing to determine the merit of the prosecution's claims; (ii) defense is baffled the prosecution is now concerned about CW's constitutional rights, as they did not want to investigate the media leaks; and (iii) the details of the results will be revealed at the preliminary and proof-evident hearing, which will be before the trial; therefore, they don't believe suppressing the results will do anything to prevent an impartial jury.

The defense is leaving it up to the discretion of the Court.

I think they were likely to be released, even before their Response was filed.

 

[Medstudies]

How do you think a depressive illness before she even met him would affect the case?
Many, many people have depression after a marriage breakdown. Not many of them murder their children and somehow force their husbands to drop them in crude oil.

Right? How relevant can that long passed “dark place”, be? By her account, this occurred at the time of her diagnosis and divorce. - In many instances, once a person gets a diagnosis and a treatment plan to manage their illness-they gain hope. Which translates to a better mental state. Up until the diagnosis, they feel awful, and with no explanation, feel hopeless, overwhelmed, depressed.

What is more relevant (to me anyway) is how excited she was about the addition of Nico. How much she loved her family. That she found joy and empowerment with her business. That she had a huge team of people who cared (tremendously!) for her. That she put her whole life out there. She didn’t seem to have much to hide.

Sure, she gave her videos a positive spin, but this is not equivalent to CW who wiped his social media so it couldn’t be scrutinized, or who wiped out his family.

 

[mtnlites]

How do you think a depressive illness before she even met him would affect the case?
Many, many people have depression after a marriage breakdown. Not many of them murder their children and somehow force their husbands to drop them in crude oil.

And situational depression is not the same thing as chronic depression or chemical depression. People can become depressed after a certain event without that depression becoming long term.

 

[gitana1]

The defense sounds like a kitten that roars to me. Their snark toward the Prosecution seems unfounded. All the Prosecution said about the media leaks was that they didn’t do it, and who is expected to pay for the investigation that the Defense requested. https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/[J] PEOPLE'S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT'S MOTIONS D29, D30, AND D31 MOTIONS TO REQUIRE THE GOVERNMENT TO DO AN INVESTIGATION.pdf

As a litigator, not to me. I think they're good and I think they have reason for their snark in that response.

I think they're quite competent.

IMO his family will cash in their 401ks and mortgage their properties to get private defense counsel though. That's coming. And IMO that's when the ugly is really going to come out.

This far he's had a very good, solid defense, however.

That's scares me but it doesn't make me mad.

 

[Mrspratcher]

Love the defense snark. Lol. Sounds like the defense feels the state's motion is the pot calling the kettle black. Per the defense the state either enabled or don't care about leaks that make the defendant look bad but they care about the autopsy report hurting their client?

They have a point.

And they're fishing for info on state witnesses that may be tainted by release of the autopsy.

In any event, all of this lines up with that sweet bit of what I feel is pure PR leaked yesterday about poor CW in his cell, staring longingly at his dead children and the woman he claims murdered them.

Defense is on fire.

My exact thoughts when I read it. My favorite from the Response: ". . . [w]ith respect to the second justification about impacting potential jurors, it appears the government is claiming to be concerned with Mr. Watts’ constitutional rights. Counsel first parenthetically notes the apparent incongruity of that position with the government’s indignant objection to investigating prejudicial media leaks. . ."

 

[Best of What's Around]

Right? How relevant can that long passed “dark place”, be? By her account, this occurred at the time of her diagnosis and divorce. - In many instances, once a person gets a diagnosis and a treatment plan to manage their illness-they gain hope. Which translates to a better mental state. Up until the diagnosis, they feel awful, and with no explanation, feel hopeless, overwhelmed, depressed.

What is more relevant (to me anyway) is how excited she was about the addition of Nico. How much she loved her family. That she found joy and empowerment with her business. That she had a huge team of people who cared (tremendously!) for her. That she put her whole life out there. She didn’t seem to have much to hide.

Sure, she gave her videos a positive spin, but this is not equivalent to CW who wiped his social media so it couldn’t be scrutinized, or who wiped out his family.

Yes, and I think any depression from her illness and/or divorce likely works against the defense theory as it shows a willingness AND ability to overcome hardship - not fall apart and strike out. Ditto for her (what appear to be) calm discussions with others regarding a possible separation and possible cheating prior to the murders; they do not sound to me like a woman in irrational fear of losing her husband, nor does her willingness and independence to still travel away from him during the time leading up to the murders. IMO.

 

[Mrspratcher]

As a litigator, not to me. I think they're good and I think they have reason for their snark in that response.

I think they're quite competent.

IMO his family will cash in their 401ks and mortgage their properties to get private defense counsel though. That's coming. And IMO that's when the ugly is really going to come out.

This far he's had a very good, solid defense, however.

That's scares me but it doesn't make me mad.

Good point. I'm wondering if he can successfully mortgage the property while the probate proceeding is ongoing. If he is treated as predeceased per the Slayer Statute, then he doesn't own the property.

I'm wondering if the 401k is treated the same as bank accounts (right of survivorship). Again, if he predeceased SW per the Slayer Statute, then isn't the 401k her property?

IIRC, SW's family needs to prove he killed her by a preponderance of the evidence.

Interested to hear your thoughts on this @gitana1.

 

[gitana1]

My exact thoughts when I read it. My favorite from the Response: ". . . [w]ith respect to the second justification about impacting potential jurors, it appears the government is claiming to be concerned with Mr. Watts’ constitutional rights. Counsel first parenthetically notes the apparent incongruity of that position with the government’s indignant objection to investigating prejudicial media leaks. . ."

Hee hee hee! You gotta' love it.

 

[gitana1]

Good point. I'm wondering if he can successfully mortgage the property while the probate proceeding is ongoing. If he is treated as predeceased per the Slayer Statute, then he doesn't own the property.

I'm wondering if the 401k is treated the same as bank accounts (right of survivorship). Again, if he predeceased SW per the Slayer Statute, then isn't the 401k her property?

IIRC, SW's family needs to prove he killed her by a preponderance of the evidence.

Interested to hear your thoughts on this @gitana1.

I meant their own 401ks and property. Not CW or SW's!

 

[Seattle1]

What leaks have you seen which are damaging to him?

Not once but twice the defense failed to prove the leaks to the court. Allegation unfounded by their own hand.

 

[flourish]

I've noticed that clients like to pick attorneys that most mirror their own personalities.

Did he pick his attorneys? I thought they were public defenders. I've never heard of anyone getting to choose their public defender? In my (not vast) experience, if it's not a murder trial, you're lucky to even see or speak with the same PD twice, which I hope was atypical.

 

[Thepoet]

It is interesting to me ,never has the media been considered that they are leaking certain stories , even when CW defense team filed a motion as to such . However one story from People which states he has a bible in the cell and a photograph, seems deemed a strategic move from defense. I thought the Bible would’ve been standard approved reading in jail. I see no intricate information that is new in this article. People uses unamed sourced daily imo with the same information written in a slightly different format under a new headline. Imo

We were told for weeks that CW was on suicide watch and not permitted any reading materials. He was allowed to look at a community newspaper one hour a day. Then, he magically has a bible and family photo! Yeah, sure.

 

[Davia18]

I can't find it now but this morning I read an article that stated the home was in only CW name however per assessor it's in both names.
Property Report

Account Parcel Space Account Type Tax Year Buildings Actual Value Assessed Value
R4040906 131333414006 Residential 2018 1 484,339 34,870

Account
Owner Name
Address
R4040906 WATTS CHRISTOPHER LEE 2825 SARATOGA TRL FREDERICK, CO 805162600
R4040906 WATTS SHANANN

 

[Mrspratcher]

I meant their own 401ks and property. Not CW or SW's!

Whoops!

 

[Charlot123]

Oh I think they're doing a great job.

The timing of that precious bit of PR about poor, sweet Chris reading the Bible and staring at his dead family, being released just before their angry motion response in which they basically throw up their hands (it's coming out anyhow) and call out the state for enabling leaking that makes the golden boy look bad, while claiming to care about his rights?

Perfect.

They don't have much to work with but they're working it well.

As a litigator I've got to give credit where credit is due.

Seems to me the jails, from now on, should should stock up not only orange suits and handcuffs but also, "family annihilator's kits", including the Bible, the picture of the slain family, probably some tear drops and a lot of Kleenex.

I am glad that the public defenders are doing a good job. First, everyone is entitled to good defence, and also, it is not an easy job, and not much money, so maybe the public defenders can grow into well-known litigators on this case? They probably did not fight to get it.