Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #41

[nwmouse]

Yes but she was a right little actress. She knew how to fake cry and seem "vulnerable" as kittenish. She'd been manipulating people her whole adult life.

IMO this guy knows how to mask the emptiness and simmering rage and resentment inside. But I don't think he's good enough to fake empathy or grief.

Plus, he's a man. Not some little girl wearing cute sweaters and glasses.

And Arias was such a narcissist she probably demanded that her DT put her on the stand, thinking the jurors would buy the snake-oil she tried to sell.

The facts in this case are simple:
-CW admitted to murdering his pregnant wife.
-He crammed the lifeless bodies of 2 and 4 yr old girls into crude oil tanks to hide his crimes.
-Buried his pregnant wife/unborn son in a shallow grave to be eaten by wild animals.
Edited for typo.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

To use a few of Gitana’s words, what would be the logical and reasonable reasons for CW to:

1. Lie in interviews about not knowing where his family was.
2. Wear and brag about a shirt the murderer of his children got for him.
3. Not call 911 to try and save the life of his children who he thought were blue/dead and/or being actively strangled.
4. Not call 911 or scream Help my wife is killing my children.
5. Kill his pregnant wife instead of calling 911.
6. Hide the bodies/evidence of children he claims he didn’t kill.
7. Hide the body/evidence of his pregnant wife who he only killed out of rage/self defense of others.
8. Continue to lie to LE until he could speak to his father.
9. Lie about an affair to LE.

What would be his motivation for doing these things? Using our knowledge of human nature and common sense I don’t think it’s that hard to see why he did these things.

 

[pocketaccent]

Having followed the thread from its inception, I'd like to ask if anyone see's any other plausible senario's in addition to the following (I'm not including involvement of any AP theories!) ...... I am being objective and not taking any particular view point but trying to look at arguments from both sides, given what we know so far. I'm no legal expert and ALL is very much MOO.
PS If anyone can clarify when Dieter was heard barking I'd be grateful. Here are my 5 scenarios:

Senario 1:
SW returns at 0148 Monday, CW already in bed (asper porch statement), SW goes to sleep until 0400 when CW declares he wants a seperation, possible "emotional discussion" ensues. CW goes downstairs for a moment before returning to see SW actively strangling CCW with BW already dead, CW proceeds to strangle and kill SW. As per CW confession.
Possible outcome: CW guilty of 2nd degree Murder of SW, BW & CCW murdered by SW.
Precedence: ..... unknown??
Likelyhood: Certain if CW is telling the truth. Very unlikely if CW lying.

Senario 2:
CW killed B&CCW after the party (between approx.1700 Sunday and 0100 Monday). SW returns at 0148, presumably doesn't check on the girls and goes to bed. CW murders SW btn approx. 0148 and 0500. Proceeds to load bodies into pickup at approx 0515.
Possible outcome: Premeditated murder in the 1st degree x5.
Precedence: Many cases AFAIK - Christian Longo, Robert Fisher, Neil Entwistle, SP etc etc While not EXACTLY the same circumstances, they were Family Annihilators who did not commit suicide.
Likelyhood: Possible if CW lying, but unlikely given risk of SW alerting neighbous/making noise, also CW would have possibly showed signs of being in a physical fight to the death. Also this scenario would allow more time for setting the scene.

Senario 3:
B&CCW asleep in bed. SW returns at 0148, possibly checking on the girls before going to bed. CW proceeds to murder SW btn 0200 and 0430, probably after she falls asleep. CW proceeds to kill B&CCW btn approx. 0200 and 0500. Bodies loaded into pickup approx 0515.
Possible outcome: Premeditated murder in the 1st degree x5.
Precedence: see (2)
Likelyhood: Possible, given suitcase at the bottom of the stairs. Could explain the lack of staging the scene if SW killed nearer 0430, leaving little time for staging after killing B&CCW. Also explains the lack of audible screaming/arguing.

Senario 4:
B&CCW asleep in bed. SW returns at 0148 and, after a discussion/argument (where possibly SW declares her intention of leaving, or CW declares he's leaving but SW threatens custody of the girls), CW impulsively and in a rage kills SW btn 0200 and 0430, CW then proceeds to kill B&CCW. Bodies loaded into pickup approx 0515.
Possible outcome: SW 2nd degree murder, B&CCW 1st degree x4.
Precedence: see (2)&(3)
Likelyhood: Possible, given suitcase at bottom of stairs, but less likely as the argument could have been heard by neighbours and, given an argument is more likely to have escalated soon after 0148, it doesn't explain the lack of setting the scene.

Senario 5:
B&CCW asleep in bed. SW returns at 0148 and, after a discussion/argument both return/go to bed, to continue discussion (or possible terms of seperation) in the morning. CW stays awake, waiting for SW to fall asleep. Btn approx. 0300 and 0430, CW murders SW before turning to B&CCW. Bodies loaded into pickup approx 0515.
Possible outcome: Premeditated murder in the 1st degree x5.
Precedence: see (2),(3)&(4)
Likelyhood: Possible, given suitcase at the bottom of the stairs. Could explain the lack of staging the scene if SW killed nearer 0430, leaving little time for staging after killing B&CCW. Also explains the lack of audible screaming/arguing.

I had hard time choosing. I can definitely eliminate #1 and #4. I think #3 is most likely.

Re Dieter: LE was dispatched twice the day of murder. Both of them being Well-check. Once in the afternoon, and again in the evening. I don't know why they came again in the evening but guessing for Dieter.

 

[nwmouse]

To use a few of Gitana’s words, what would be the logical and reasonable reasons for CW to:

1. Lie in interviews about not knowing where his family was.
2. Wear and brag about a shirt the murderer of his children got for him.
3. Not call 911 to try and save the life of his children who he thought were blue/dead and/or being actively strangled.
4. Not call 911 or scream Help my wife is killing my children.
5. Kill his pregnant wife instead of calling 911.
6. Hide the bodies/evidence of children he claims he didn’t kill.
7. Hide the body/evidence of his pregnant wife who he only killed out of rage/self defense of others.
8. Continue to lie to LE until he could speak to his father.

What would be his motivation for doing these things? Using our knowledge of human nature and common sense I don’t think it’s that hard to see why he did these things.

Well for me, IMO, the logical reason for CW to do these things is that he's a murdering liar who is trying to cover his loathsome behind. MOO.

 

[gitana1]

And Arias was such a narcissist she probably demanded that her DT put her on the stand, thinking the jurors would buy the snake-oil she tried to sell.

The farts in this case are simple:
-CW admitted to murdering his pregnant wife.
-He crammed the lifeless bodies of 2 and 4 yr old girls into crude oil tanks to hide his crimes.
-Buried his pregnant wife/unborn son in a shallow grave to be eaten by wild animals.

Lol at your autocorrect! What are you typing all the time?

 

[nwmouse]

Lol at your autocorrect! What are you typing all the time?

Oh crikey, thanks for that! Meant to type "facts" not "farts"!!

 

[JDough]

Actually, SW said the "darkest" time for her came AFTER her diagnosis and I think it is relevant because usually a diagnosis does lead to treatment and hope. Instead, for SW, she quit her long-time job, lost friends and "was in a really, really, really bad place" and I assume she means emotionally. Then she got a friend request from CW.
JMO

Shanann Watts Met Husband Chris Online During Dark Period 8 Years Before Murder: 'He Is Amazing'

I would hope that in the eight years AFTER these events occurred, SW was in a much better place. I cannot imagine her NOT being proactive in improving her health. It has been noted numerous times in these threads that she may have gone to the doctor too much. IMO, what is relevant to this case is this: her mental health has not been proven to be depressive. Nor has her physical health been proven to be poor at the time of her death. She DID have hope- until her life was taken. By the very man she claims gave her that hope.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

Well for me, IMO, the logical reason for CW to do these things is that he's a murdering liar who is trying to cover his loathsome behind. MOO.

Exactly. If it walks like a duck. A spade is a spade. 2 + 2 = 4. Occam’s Razor.

 

[liltexans]

He gets to read it out of his cell. Does he have anything esle for the other 23 hours?

Of course he is a killer, but he has not been tried. Having nothing to do seems really cruel for someone who has not been tried and convicted. No, I am not defending him.

How is it decided he gets nothing 23 hours a day? If he is suicidal, then a Bible should not be in there if he cannot have other books. Or perhaps he asked for it.

It was reported by Ashleigh Banfield and People magazine I think that CW was spending most of his time sleeping. But that was a couple of weeks ago. I’m not sure if that is still true, assuming it was true.

I think the Close Watch Protocol limits what an inmate can do or have in their cell. This is also a high profile case and, in addition to protecting CW from self harm, I think the jail also has as obligation to protect him from being harmed by other inmates.

He should be allowed to have visitors, though, I think. One of our attorneys could confirm if his visits and phone calls are limited.

 

[gitana1]

It was reported by Ashleigh Banfield and People magazine I think that CW was spending most of his time sleeping. But that was a couple of weeks ago. I’m not sure if that is still true, assuming it was true.

I think the Close Watch Protocol limits what an inmate can do or have in their cell. This is also a high profile case and, in addition to protecting CW from self harm, I think the jail also has as obligation to protect him from being harmed by other inmates.

He should be allowed to have visitors, though, I think. One of our attorneys could confirm if his visits and phone calls are limited.

The only thing I could think would allow them to limit non-professional visitors would be the difficulty of getting him safely to and from his cell while on suicide watch.

 

[mickey2942]

As a litigator, not to me. I think they're good and I think they have reason for their snark in that response.

I think they're quite competent.

IMO his family will cash in their 401ks and mortgage their properties to get private defense counsel though. That's coming. And IMO that's when the ugly is really going to come out.

This far he's had a very good, solid defense, however.

That's scares me but it doesn't make me mad.

Interesting, because if my son was on trial for killing his wife, with a story like this, there is no way that I would cash in 401k, or mortgage our home for his defense. Sure, I would throw some money on his account in jail, take his phone calls, help him out, but, his defense would be his own expense.

Adults make their own choices. If SW killed her children, she would have to have been completely borderline, and unstable. CW would have known how she would react to any breakup.

 

[?mysterian?]

To use a few of Gitana’s words, what would be the logical and reasonable reasons for CW to:

1. Lie in interviews about not knowing where his family was.
2. Wear and brag about a shirt the murderer of his children got for him.
3. Not call 911 to try and save the life of his children who he thought were blue/dead and/or being actively strangled.
4. Not call 911 or scream Help my wife is killing my children.
5. Kill his pregnant wife instead of calling 911.
6. Hide the bodies/evidence of children he claims he didn’t kill.
7. Hide the body/evidence of his pregnant wife who he only killed out of rage/self defense of others.
8. Continue to lie to LE until he could speak to his father.
9. Lie about an affair to LE.

What would be his motivation for doing these things? Using our knowledge of human nature and common sense I don’t think it’s that hard to see why he did these things.

I can't answer that with logical and reasonable reasons, because his actions/words afterwards/during media interviews helped prove his earlier statements to be lies, enough that he was arrested and charged with a lengthy list of charges, up to and including the murders of his wife, unborn son, and two daughters.

I have attempted to understand how others who believe CW to be telling the truth can believe he is, in fact, telling the truth when he's been proven to be a liar, yet no one's been able to explain it to me.

 

[?mysterian?]

Welcome to Websleuths Mark Morris and AbstractVino!

 

[molly1255]

He gets to read it out of his cell. Does he have anything esle for the other 23 hours?

Of course he is a killer, but he has not been tried. Having nothing to do seems really cruel for someone who has not been tried and convicted. No, I am not defending him.

How is it decided he gets nothing 23 hours a day? If he is suicidal, then a Bible should not be in there if he cannot have other books. Or perhaps he asked for it.

JMO, I'm not so sure it is truly "punishment" that requires he sit in his cell for 23 hours a day with nothing to do.

CW is a huge liability risk for those who are responsible for ensuring he is able to stand trial. He's a suicide risk, but he's also at risk of being attacked and/or murdered if he's allowed to move about.

There's also a huge risk he could try to escape. Years ago, Ted Bundy was facing a murder charge and he escaped through a court house window in Aspen. He later escaped from an actual jail in Glenwood Springs by sawing through the ceiling. IIRC, he was still on escape status when he went to Florida and murdered the college girls.

IMO, anything they put in a cell with him is something he could use to either try to kill himself or use to try to escape. ETA: He's already admitted to being a killer, and faces other murder charges. His admission alone shows he is capable of killing another. That's a very risky fellow, IMO. No guarantee he won't try to kill a guard.

 

[Seattle1]

It was reported by Ashleigh Banfield and People magazine I think that CW was spending most of his time sleeping. But that was a couple of weeks ago. I’m not sure if that is still true, assuming it was true.

I think the Close Watch Protocol limits what an inmate can do or have in their cell. This is also a high profile case and, in addition to protecting CW from self harm, I think the jail also has as obligation to protect him from being harmed by other inmates.

He should be allowed to have visitors, though, I think. One of our attorneys could confirm if his visits and phone calls are limited.

The only thing I could think would allow them to limit non-professional visitors would be the difficulty of getting him safely to and from his cell while on suicide watch.

Watts waived his right to have a preliminary hearing within 35 days, and due back in court on 19 November 2018. IMO, Last known report on CW regarding visitors was by Fox News:

Watts is not currently able to receive visitors because he has not been in the jail system long enough, the Weld County Sheriff's Office told the channel.

 

[whisperOFwings]

@WildWest, Regarding your post about the bags the police brought out.
Your post...
Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #40
"I cannot make heads or tails of what bedding is in the bag I just pray the couple darker spots are patterns on the bedding fabric and not bodily fluids (urine, blood, feces, vomit, maybe even semen there too). Also wondering if each entire bedset were taken in separate bags from the other beds. Our twin sized bedding, mattress cover, sheets, pillow & comforter could look like that bag. Morbid, sorry, I wonder if there were more fluids on the bedding than the pillows"

I think the yellow at the bottom is a 'GoMoji Bean Bag'.
The black you see in the bag could be the 'face' on the bean bag.
emoji bean bag chair
Bean bag pics from these links...
Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “Thought I was done cleaning.....We call Celeste the #destroyer every time she goes into a room she dumps ALL of the bins and then plays!…”
Thrive Healthy Fit Mom on Instagram: “Who is #DUOing it with their Thrive Experience?”

Post with bags here:
Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #40

Picture of bag from this link here:
Christopher Watts is denied bail in the murder of his wife and young children | Daily Mail Online
Edit... The picture of CW has a beanbag , if you look closely.

 

[MassGuy]

JMO, I'm not so sure it is truly "punishment" that requires he sit in his cell for 23 hours a day with nothing to do.

CW is a huge liability risk for those who are responsible for ensuring he is able to stand trial. He's a suicide risk, but he's also at risk of being attacked and/or murdered if he's allowed to move about.

There's also a huge risk he could try to escape. Years ago, Ted Bundy was facing a murder charge and he escaped through a court house window in Aspen. He later escaped from an actual jail in Glenwood Springs by sawing through the ceiling. IIRC, he was still on escape status when he went to Florida and murdered the college girls.

IMO, anything they put in a cell with him is something he could use to either try to kill himself or use to try to escape.

I think they’re focused more on potential suicide than anything.

Jail security is much tighter now than it was many years ago. I’m not the least bit concerned about him escaping.

 

[riolove77]

Imo the prosecution did say that they acknowledge some leaks came from within the the law enforcement agency but felt the process of finding the leaks would be costly and involve too many people to be investigated. They claim some of the information came from the unsealed affadavit , which the defense had thought would possibly taint jurors and filed the motion for on 8/20 and was denied . The prosecution filed to seal autopsy imo after they had most likely all ready interviewed every one of their witnesses and potential jurors had most likely come in contact with information leaks . What possibly now after so much information and inuendo could the prosecution try to save ? Imo it may be damning against them . It is not the defense wanting it sealed, they have asked Protection if leaks and information from the start. The prosecution imo may have acted carelessly by not sealing the facts and not taking precautions within their LE community to keep leaks from happening. When CW was arrested the headlines were he confessed to all the murders ! This came 2 officers from within LE . It was false. Imo at that moment the world heard from law enforcement C.W. confessed the damage was done bc everyone assumed he was guilty Chris Watts’ attorneys accuse DA of leaking information to the press
https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/001/MOTION TO SEAL APPLICATION AND AFFIDAVIT IN SUPPORT OF ARREST WARRANT FOR CHRISTOPHER WATTS.pdf
Report: Man with NC ties confesses to killing wife, 2 daughters in Colorado

BBM There is absolutely no way the prosecution has already interviewed all of their witnesses; not even close. So it cannot be said that they are only now trying to seal things because they are "done" with their work. This is going to take months and maybe years. Our system simply does not work as fast as TV makes it look.

Further, leaks happen in every single high profile case. To expect LE to interview hundreds of government employees to find out who, if anyone, leaked anything to the media is an insane waste of time and resources - resources already being used to prosecute this toolbag for murdering his family.

Not to mention that in my professional opinion, the stuff coming out now about his bible and his family picture and his sobbing himself to sleep at night is most certainly coming from the defense team. I've seen this. I know how that side works. They're doing what they need to do with what they have, but it's reality. There is a reason their motion was denied.

 

[kay74]

Ya know if he did go into a rage because she said she was going to leave, he should have just said "go" and turn on a tv program or grab his truck keys and leave.

 

[molly1255]

I think they’re focused more on potential suicide than anything.

Jail security is much tighter now than it was many years ago. I’m not the least bit concerned about him escaping.

I agree that suicide is probably the risk. I also think jails have learned they need to be more security and careful with the inmates because of previous escapes, as in the Ted Bundy example I gave.

Can you imagine being the person who was responsible for making sure Ted Bundy stayed in jail in Glenwood Springs? Bundy got out and went on to kill more victims.