Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #41

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  • #641
Do those little bean bag chairs have zippers like the old school bean bags?

These appear to be sold prefilled (unlike the ones you have to buy the case and fill with your own filling):
https://www.walmart.com/ip/GoMoji-Bean-Bag-Multiple-Patterns-28-x-28-x-14/50159584
78 reviews there. One of the reviewers says it has a zipper but the zipper is closed with a steel staple. I'm thinking if someone was determined to open it they could but it may not be practical for what we are thinking because the filling might go everywhere.
Still pondering....
 
  • #642
I was thinking maybe she was sleeping on her side. I’ve also wondered if he used some type of a garrote(?) to avoid being scratched.
Even by the 3rd month, sleeping on your stomach is difficult and most women sleep on their sides.

It’s still not that hard to get anyone in their sleep regardless-but most women already have a bump by 15 weeks and sleep for me at that point became tougher than usual every time and I never slept well.
 
  • #643
He gets to read it out of his cell. Does he have anything esle for the other 23 hours?

Of course he is a killer, but he has not been tried. Having nothing to do seems really cruel for someone who has not been tried and convicted. No, I am not defending him.

How is it decided he gets nothing 23 hours a day? If he is suicidal, then a Bible should not be in there if he cannot have other books. Or perhaps he asked for it.
There's a different sheriff now and this article is quite old but it's a glimpse of the local mentality about inmates: Weld inmates are not living like kings
 
  • #644
Even by the 3rd month, sleeping on your stomach is difficult and most women sleep on their sides.

It’s still not that hard to get anyone in their sleep regardless-but most women already have a bump by 15 weeks and sleep for me at that point became tougher than usual every time and I never slept well.

I agree, it’s difficult to sleep on your stomach when pregnant. If it were me and I was worried all weekend about my husband having an affair I’d be sleeping on my side, or at least trying to, with my back to him.
 
  • #645
First of all I never thought this mother had anything to do with the deaths of her babys but something truly broke my heart today ...there's a video Memorial to Shanann and her children set to a Billy Joel song and anybody that has any doubts in their mind just watch this and see how happy the children and Shanann were, the laughter and smiles are pure love and I don't even know what to say but it is heartwrenching!! :(
 
  • #646
Quoting myself because never mind. I was thinking if they had a zipper they would make a good way to hide the bodies in the back of his truck on his way to the tanks. I hate typing that. However, he dumped the bodies and went to work and as far as we know he didn’t return home (to take the bean bags back) until NUA called and he raced home to find the cops there. So I don’t think that theory works now.

I initially was thinking along the same lines but that he could have left the one used for transporting them in the oil field (with his bare footprint on it) and perhaps they were taking the matching one from the house. But now that I have looked them up that seems really unlikely. They seem to be a fuzzy fabric, not smooth plastic-y, and the logistics of opening the zippers without getting bean bag filling everywhere makes it impractical for that purpose. IMO.
 
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  • #647
AB 10/09/18
1. CW has photo of SW. BW, and C.W. in his cell as well as a Bible. Is it for show, was he advised by the Defense to display these items in his cell, so he’d look good? Or is CW a man who is deep in mourning? We don’t know what he’s thinking. Scott Peterson had Laci’s photo in his cell. OJ had a picture of Nicole in his cell. There could be an innocent explanation. Prisoners can get permission to have pictures of loved ones in their cells. It’s very common for prisoners to have religious materials in jail. If he’s on Close Watch Protocol he’s not supposed to have reading material in his room.That may have changed, nobody knows. The Weld County Jail has a Public Information Officer who has never once returned a call to AB.
2. The Defense is not concerned about the autopsy reports. Could infer that there’s nothing more incriminating in them. Defense claims they don’t care. C.W. has already been damaged by leaks, the autopsy information will come out at the Preliminary Hearing, anyway, but they are interested in learning about Prosecution witnesses who might be tainted. Guest Defense Attorney, Renee Sandler says she wouldn’t be so cavalier about an Autopsy report. She wouldn’t want those results out, both sides need to protect witnesses, both sides need to protect taint. It works both ways. The Defense said, “Mr. Watts rights to a fundamentally fair proceeding and, ultimately, a fair and impartial jury at trial, have been so substantially damaged in this case, it does not see, that in any prophylactic order, at least on the narrow issue of whether the autopsies should be released, can serve to salvage the wreckage of those rights which may remain.” Really dramatic stuff. Defense is suggesting they are already doomed. It’s a Death Penalty case, they have to set up an appeal before they even try the case. The Defense said, “The government has made no further proffer with respect to which witnesses it intends to interview that have not been interviewed nor how what those witnesses have to say that could be impacted by the contents of the autopsies.” Defense is trying to make an argument that so much damage has been done CW can’t get a fair trial. Once they get some discovery, and find out who some of the witnesses are, Defense may change their strategy.
3. AB showed SW’s online baby blog pre Bella’s birth. CW seemed to equally participate in that blog. SW has left so many SM posts, the Prosecution won’t have to recreate her as a victim, she did it herself.
4. SW’s guest Pat LaMama, from *********** disagrees with AB about SW’s videos. AB thinks the videos show SW was a happy person who enjoys being on video, LaMama thinks some of the videos show SW as pathetic and desperate for attention and not very happy.
5. Progression videos chronicle pregnancy with Bella. The day they found out they were pregnant, CW said he was so happy.
6. Guest, Investigator, Tom Verni explains that investigators will pore over videos, and both Prosecution and Defense will use whatever they feel is advantageous to their case. Guest Defense Attorney, Rene Sandler, explains, when she looks at videos she looks for timeline, investigative leads, and how she can get them admitted into evidence, if at all. It’s hearsay. You can’t cross examine it. It won’t come in unless it fits into an exception under the hearsay rule. It’s difficult, it’s a text by text, blog by blog analysis. AB showed blog entry where C.W. lovingly worked on Bella’s nursery, asked if the Defense could use it. LaMama said the defense has to be careful about opening a door, once it’s opened it’s wide open and it’s a free for all for all sides. They have to be tactical and strategic.
7. What was in the evidence bags removed from the house? Bags were see through. Looked likely bedding. Pink and blue and yellow sheets and blankets. Guest, Forensic investigator, Joseph Scott Morgan, explains, because CW was having an affair Police must be entertaining the thought that other parties might be involved. They will be using DNA to determine individualization of evidence. Was someone else in the home that wasn’t part of the family unit? If AP was in SW’s and CW’s bed her DNA might be there. Will the bedding tell who strangled the children? Is there hair there? Is there DNA? Did the victims regurgitate sputum? Mix of blood and sputum? Guest, Morgan is is concerned about the quality of the evidence because LE put the evidence in plastic bags. Plastic is bad because it can sweat and can compromise the integrity of the biological sample. It’s not good to commingle evidence from different places, either.
Viewer Questions
1. I noticed in videos that Shanann kept her home impossibly clean, all the way down to the inside of the pantry. How long do you think it took investigators to realize that anything out of place would have been considered a big deal? Keeping a clean house like she did would be very helpful. Right away you could tell if things were out of place, if there had been a struggle.
2. If this goes to trial will they allow cameras in the courtroom? It’s a State by State thing, Colorado does allow cameras in the courtroom, but it will come down to the judge. Does he think it will be a circus or does he think the public has a right to know step by step?
3. When time for trial if there is a trial the attorneys need to find out who these women and men are in love with the maniac so they don’t get chosen on the jury! Defense Attorney Sandler says in the search for the truth, both sides are given an opportunity to question potential jurors to see if there are any biases or prejudices, to see if they can be fair and impartial.
4. Why is this case taking so long when he confessed? Police say he confessed, but C.W. might fight that, so it might be suppressed, and they’re going to handle this like CW hasn’t confessed. Nothing will be taken for granted. There will be a thorough investigation. Very involved case. CW was charged with 9 felonies, including 5 counts of First Degree Murder.

RSBM
I haven't had a chance to watch AB so thank you Layla for posting this. Who is Pat LaMama?

4. SW’s guest Pat LaMama, from *********** disagrees with AB about SW’s videos. AB thinks the videos show SW was a happy person who enjoys being on video, LaMama thinks some of the videos show SW as pathetic and desperate for attention and not very happy.
 
  • #648
And I don't post often but a question I have is I know there's been a lot of discussion about the bed and the sheets and I just was wondering where did he sleep that Monday night and was the bed made up again or did he not sleep there -does anybody have any clue about this? not that he has a conscience but maybe he cannot stomach to sleep in that bed where something awful might have happened???
 
  • #649
RSBM
I haven't had a chance to watch AB so thank for posting this. Who is Pat LaMama?

4. SW’s guest Pat LaMama, from *********** disagrees with AB about SW’s videos. AB thinks the videos show SW was a happy person who enjoys being on video, LaMama thinks some of the videos show SW as pathetic and desperate for attention and not very happy.
I never saw her before she was on AB. She’s a crime reporter. Pat LaLama (@PatLaLama) on Twitter
 
  • #650
There's a different sheriff now and this article is quite old but it's a glimpse of the local mentality about inmates: Weld inmates are not living like kings

This is interesting, but we can't derail the thread by talking about the alleged conditions in the jail. By the way, this post is not directed at you or anyone else. I'm just jumping off your post.

I think everyone can be assured that if CW is being treated inhumanely or unfairly as compared with other inmates that his attorneys will come to his defense quickly and file whatever motions and requests they deem appropriate. And that is perfectly fine and part of his rights as a prisoner. Unless something comes to light to suggest that CW is being mistreated in jail, let's please table the discussion about how prisoners are treated.
 
  • #651
  • #652
This is such superb investigating whisperOFwings!

I think you are right and that is what is in the evidence bag.

What do we think it means?

I have been pondering this....

They seem to have owned more than one of those from the photos.

Would that beanbag be considered a "non-porous bag"?
Edit to add... Thank you. :)
No, online it says they are "Soft fur bean bag made of polyester fabric".
I don't know what it means. I did notice however that they did not sleep with them.
And the blue fuzzy blanket (from the last thread) was used during 'snuggle-wind down time'.
Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #40
:( In all the pictures I scoured through anyway.
 
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  • #653
Sorry have some thoughts that have been lingering in my mind but haven't posted want to say I bet you his defense wants it to get out that he has a Bible and a picture of his wife and the girls in his jail cell but if what he said is SUPPOSED to be true why would he want a picture of his wife who he says killed his girls?
 
  • #654
I agree, if the girls were killed first I wonder if he could have convinced her they were spending night away. I think he was a coward and would not have wanted any confrontation. MOO
When I first learned about this tragedy, I allowed my mind to go to CW killing the girls first, tell SW that they were spending the night with their good friends that they could have a nice evening together, and where CW draws SW a bath to relax after her weary trip, and proceeded to drown her in the tub. (i.e., Drew Peterson). Evil and cowardly. (I'll wait for trial-- so much easier)! MOO
 
  • #655
I agree, it’s difficult to sleep on your stomach when pregnant. If it were me and I was worried all weekend about my husband having an affair I’d be sleeping on my side, or at least trying to, with my back to him.

I wouldn’t be surprised if she had one of those life size pregnancy pillows that are huge and allow one to sling their unwieldily body over them in an attempt to get comfortable.

This reminded me that the pregnant woman’s sleeping body is not like the body of everyone else’s. It’s damn hard to get comfortable, sleep through the night or just not feel like you have to get up to use the bathroom. Most women can’t EVER forget their pregnancies by the time they are 4 months into them when they go to sleep or get up. If they know they are pregnant, it’s one of the foremost things on their mind, particularly if it is a wanted pregnancy as it seems this was for SW and the excitement she seemed to hold for their first son because according to her, CW wanted a boy. IMO
 
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  • #656
Sorry have some thoughts that have been lingering in my mind but haven't posted want to say I bet you his defense wants it to get out that he has a Bible and a picture of his wife and the girls in his jail cell but if what he said is SUPPOSED to be true why would he want a picture of his wife who he says killed his girls?
Maybe they want people to think he's remorseful?
MOO
 
  • #657
  • #658
Don’t remind me of that 🤬🤬🤬 #ripnatalee
He makes me ill. I can't imagine how his wife stands for him to touch her.
This is interesting, but we can't derail the thread by talking about the alleged conditions in the jail. By the way, this post is not directed at you or anyone else. I'm just jumping off your post.

I think everyone can be assured that if CW is being treated inhumanely or unfairly as compared with other inmates that his attorneys will come to his defense quickly and file whatever motions and requests they deem appropriate. And that is perfectly fine and part of his rights as a prisoner. Unless something comes to light to suggest that CW is being mistreated in jail, let's please table the discussion about how prisoners are treated.
Apologies! I just imagined since it had already been discussed that it was okay. Sorry for the bother. I won't post on the topic.
 
  • #659
AB 10/09/18
1. CW has photo of SW. BW, and C.W. in his cell as well as a Bible. Is it for show, was he advised by the Defense to display these items in his cell, so he’d look good? Or is CW a man who is deep in mourning? We don’t know what he’s thinking. Scott Peterson had Laci’s photo in his cell. OJ had a picture of Nicole in his cell. There could be an innocent explanation. Prisoners can get permission to have pictures of loved ones in their cells. It’s very common for prisoners to have religious materials in jail. If he’s on Close Watch Protocol he’s not supposed to have reading material in his room.That may have changed, nobody knows. The Weld County Jail has a Public Information Officer who has never once returned a call to AB.
2. The Defense is not concerned about the autopsy reports. Could infer that there’s nothing more incriminating in them. Defense claims they don’t care. C.W. has already been damaged by leaks, the autopsy information will come out at the Preliminary Hearing, anyway, but they are interested in learning about Prosecution witnesses who might be tainted. Guest Defense Attorney, Renee Sandler says she wouldn’t be so cavalier about an Autopsy report. She wouldn’t want those results out, both sides need to protect witnesses, both sides need to protect taint. It works both ways. The Defense said, “Mr. Watts rights to a fundamentally fair proceeding and, ultimately, a fair and impartial jury at trial, have been so substantially damaged in this case, it does not see, that in any prophylactic order, at least on the narrow issue of whether the autopsies should be released, can serve to salvage the wreckage of those rights which may remain.” Really dramatic stuff. Defense is suggesting they are already doomed. It’s a Death Penalty case, they have to set up an appeal before they even try the case. The Defense said, “The government has made no further proffer with respect to which witnesses it intends to interview that have not been interviewed nor how what those witnesses have to say that could be impacted by the contents of the autopsies.” Defense is trying to make an argument that so much damage has been done CW can’t get a fair trial. Once they get some discovery, and find out who some of the witnesses are, Defense may change their strategy.
3. AB showed SW’s online baby blog pre Bella’s birth. CW seemed to equally participate in that blog. SW has left so many SM posts, the Prosecution won’t have to recreate her as a victim, she did it herself.
4. SW’s guest Pat LaMama, from *********** disagrees with AB about SW’s videos. AB thinks the videos show SW was a happy person who enjoys being on video, LaMama thinks some of the videos show SW as pathetic and desperate for attention and not very happy.
5. Progression videos chronicle pregnancy with Bella. The day they found out they were pregnant, CW said he was so happy.
6. Guest, Investigator, Tom Verni explains that investigators will pore over videos, and both Prosecution and Defense will use whatever they feel is advantageous to their case. Guest Defense Attorney, Rene Sandler, explains, when she looks at videos she looks for timeline, investigative leads, and how she can get them admitted into evidence, if at all. It’s hearsay. You can’t cross examine it. It won’t come in unless it fits into an exception under the hearsay rule. It’s difficult, it’s a text by text, blog by blog analysis. AB showed blog entry where C.W. lovingly worked on Bella’s nursery, asked if the Defense could use it. LaMama said the defense has to be careful about opening a door, once it’s opened it’s wide open and it’s a free for all for all sides. They have to be tactical and strategic.
7. What was in the evidence bags removed from the house? Bags were see through. Looked likely bedding. Pink and blue and yellow sheets and blankets. Guest, Forensic investigator, Joseph Scott Morgan, explains, because CW was having an affair Police must be entertaining the thought that other parties might be involved. They will be using DNA to determine individualization of evidence. Was someone else in the home that wasn’t part of the family unit? If AP was in SW’s and CW’s bed her DNA might be there. Will the bedding tell who strangled the children? Is there hair there? Is there DNA? Did the victims regurgitate sputum? Mix of blood and sputum? Guest, Morgan is is concerned about the quality of the evidence because LE put the evidence in plastic bags. Plastic is bad because it can sweat and can compromise the integrity of the biological sample. It’s not good to commingle evidence from different places, either.
Viewer Questions
1. I noticed in videos that Shanann kept her home impossibly clean, all the way down to the inside of the pantry. How long do you think it took investigators to realize that anything out of place would have been considered a big deal? Keeping a clean house like she did would be very helpful. Right away you could tell if things were out of place, if there had been a struggle.
2. If this goes to trial will they allow cameras in the courtroom? It’s a State by State thing, Colorado does allow cameras in the courtroom, but it will come down to the judge. Does he think it will be a circus or does he think the public has a right to know step by step?
3. When time for trial if there is a trial the attorneys need to find out who these women and men are in love with the maniac so they don’t get chosen on the jury! Defense Attorney Sandler says in the search for the truth, both sides are given an opportunity to question potential jurors to see if there are any biases or prejudices, to see if they can be fair and impartial.
4. Why is this case taking so long when he confessed? Police say he confessed, but C.W. might fight that, so it might be suppressed, and they’re going to handle this like CW hasn’t confessed. Nothing will be taken for granted. There will be a thorough investigation. Very involved case. CW was charged with 9 felonies, including 5 counts of First Degree Murder.

Thank you as always Layla! Interesting that they brought up Shannan's baby blog after were just discussing it here. Are AB's producers reading Websleuths? Anyone want to place bets that AB's show will be discussing the significance of the emoji beanbags sometime this week? :D
 
  • #660
I wouldn’t be surprised if she had one of those life size pregnancy pillows that are huge and allow one to sling their unwieldily body over them in an attempt to get comfortable.

This reminded me that the pregnant woman’s sleeping body is not like the body of everyone else’s. It’s damn hard to get comfortable, sleep through the night or just not feel like you have to get up to use the bathroom. Most women can’t EVER forget their pregnancies by the time they are 4 months into them when they go to sleep or get up. If they know they are pregnant, it’s one of the foremost things on their mind, particularly if it is a wanted pregnancy as it seems this was for SW and the excitement she seemed to hold for their first son because according to her, he wanted a boy. IMO
Maybe they want people to think he's remorseful?
MOO
Yes to APPEAR that way! The last photo of her tells alot, and she was a pregnant mom missing her family that was already fractured by him!!
I
 
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