Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #42

[mtnlites]

If he is a psycopath, he has no idea of how to act or what would be human.

Many psychopaths become very good mimics and are able to act "normal" under most circumstances. They watch television shows, movies, other people in their lives, etc. and become very good at applying those actions to their own lives. For instance, while they may not feel sad on the inside when something bad happens, they learn from watching others that the appropriate reaction is to cry. So they do. While their brains may function on a different wavelength than non-psychopaths, oftentimes their outside actions aren't that different from anyone else's. That's one of the reasons why they are so scary-they can be incredibly good at blending in. IMO

 

[human]

Oh, I thought you were talking about the Watts. I thought the original question was why didn't she get a Order of Protection?

The quote said there were no signs like other FA. There were signs of not good things with other FA such as cheating and finances.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

There are many, many similarities between these cases. Naturally there are differences in how they lived, their personalities, their ages, etc but a lot of the MAIN things are eerily alike. Both laid groundwork with friends/co-workers for a "separation." Both had financial difficulties. Both had affairs. Both dumped their children's bodies in liquid (CW oil tank, CL water). Both strangled their wives. Both accused the wife of killing the children and both claimed that they killed their wives in a rage. Both were fairly good looking. Both moved with their families across the United States. Both were fairly religious. The main striking difference is that CL took off to Mexico after the murders. However, we have no idea what CW would have done had NUA not shown up.

This is fascinating, it's like they're working off the same script. I wonder too what CW would've done next.

 

[riolove77]

One of my earlier childhood memories was watching Fatal Vision. Gary Cole version, not Scott Foley (what on earth were my parents thinking!?). I agree that the big difference is that everyone believed JMcD’s story for so long, including Colette’s family. Maybe it was the proximity in time to Manson, maybe the county was naive, who knows. I actually think it’s cases like his and fellow McGinniss alum, Robert Marshall (not a FA, just a wife killer) that made us all stop believing these bizarre stories. Once burned etc ... CW is definitely experiencing the flip side where we all now immediately see how preposterous a story can seem when we consider things that actually, logically happen in real life. Jmo.

Yeah, Collette's family believed him until her stepdad found he had lied to them about killing one of the "real" perps of the crime. Then they realized if he lied about that, what else? And why?

SW's in laws also believed him for sometime, until they found out about the affair.

CW is nowhere near as charming or charismatic as SP or JM. He didn't have anyone fooled for a second.

 

[Best of What's Around]

This is fascinating, it's like they're working off the same script. I wonder too what CW would've done next.

I do not think he planned to run as he was already laying the groundwork for her to take off or be abducted with the calls/texts to her that morning. I don't think he has the imagination to pick up and take off to parts unknown and assume another identity. That takes great cunning and intelligence in most cases, IMO. These days, you would have to really plan ahead to take off and assume a new identity IMO since so much of our lives are tracked digitally.

 

[human]

Wasn't speaking in terms of SP, really just speaking in general terms. Edited to add: I was totally being sarcastic because my 4 teenagers all felt like everything was my fault because I was the disciplinarian.

Lol. I baked homemade cookies and put them in little bags for lunches. I made homemade bread. Lasagna. Pizza.

After 15 years I told my husband it was his turn. The kids only remember his cooking. They joke about my lack of cooking.

My mantra is, “ Why bother.”

Males get a pass. SW waxes poetic sbout all of the things CW did to help.Does anyone become teary eyed about her cleaning the house?

 

[human]

Many psychopaths become very good mimics and are able to act "normal" under most circumstances. They watch television shows, movies, other people in their lives, etc. and become very good at applying those actions to their own lives. For instance, while they may not feel sad on the inside when something bad happens, they learn from watching others that the appropriate reaction is to cry. So they do. While their brains may function on a different wavelength than non-psychopaths, oftentimes their outside actions aren't that different from anyone else's. That's one of the reasons why they are so scary-they can be incredibly good at blending in. IMO

They don’t have examples of how to act after killing their families, though.

 

[Gardener1850]

.

 

[rainynights]

Thanks for posting the program about Longo. I'm 20 minutes in and there's already one amazing similarity that jumped out at me.
Longo went into his place of work and told a work colleague (who often babysat the kids) that he and Mary Jane were separating (it was also the day the body of Zac was found in the river).
She found it strange for him to come in to tell her, CW did the same with NUA.
NUA was worried SW was ill inside the house and CW informs her, he and SW are separating! CW already setting up a scenario like Longo, that their wives have taken off with their children. Also, in the doco, people commenting Longo seemed like an ordinary guy, a family man.

You're welcome.

That one jumped out at me too! The woman who worked with CL at Starbucks and also babysat MJL & CL's children, sounded eerily similar to NUA for that exact reason. It's chilling. Jmo

From the 48 hours episode re: CL:

Police hunted for Longo, his wife, MaryJane, and their baby, Madison. Thompson told them she remembered a strange conversation she'd had with Longo the very day Zachary's body had been found.

"He made it a point to come up to me while I was working, and said, 'You won't be seeing the rest of the family. My wife and I are getting a divorce,'" said Thompson.

Thompson says she was surprised by the news because the Longos seemed like a very happy couple.

The Pretender: The case of Christian Longo

From The Daily Beast re: CW:

Atkinson said she believed the couple were happily married—but that Chris Watts, unprompted, brought up the issue of separation when she called him the day Shanann went missing, which she thought was strange.

“She didn’t talk about leaving him or separating. She very much loved her family and wanted to be a family,” said Atkinson. “I didn’t find out that they were going to separate or anything like that until I called Chris that morning.

“When I called him and asked him where she was, that’s when he told me and I basically told him that that wasn’t my [concern] at that particular moment because it wasn’t and that their business was their business, that they would either work it out or they wouldn’t.”

Last Person to See Shanann Alive: Why I Suspect Chris Watts

 

[human]

I meant signs of domestic violence.

True. No signs of domestic violence.For some reason that does not seem to be part of FA. Strange

 

[MKZoo]

Yeah, Collette's family believed him until her stepdad found he had lied to them about killing one of the "real" perps of the crime. Then they realized if he lied about that, what else? And why?

SW's in laws also believed him for sometime, until they found out about the affair.

CW is nowhere near as charming or charismatic as SP or JM. He didn't have anyone fooled for a second.

I always wonder why he told Freddie Kassab that story. It was exponentially more weird than even the Manson Hippie story. It was never going to quell the doubts.

But I agree, CW doesn’t have the charisma of either JMD or SP. And if he tries to put SW on trial a la JA, well he doesn’t seem to have her verbal gymnastics skills either. IMO.

 

[SweetPeas56]

Yes, SW was always thinking of others IMO. In CW's birthday present video it is interesting to me to contrast how she was aware of what the entire family was doing versus CW's main focus on the gift he was getting and himself. He seemed oblivious to what the kids were doing. She was commenting on the girls getting ice and also on his reactions. And both what her girls were doing and him seemed to give her joy. At first I thought that is just so typical of of some men who can't multi-task and pay attention to more than one thing at a time and women who are taking care of their kids all day are more tuned in to what they are doing. And it was his birthday so he deserved to be excited and self-centered for a moment. But after watching more videos I'm not so sure that it is only a difference of personalities/circumstances-- Compare, for example, SW when it was HER birthday: Shanann Watts

She was totally focused on her kids and seemed to love watching them. She laughed as CeCe tried to blow towards the cake. Even when Bella blows out SW's birthday candles she acted silly instead of actually angry about it. She seemed to be loving it and loving her family every moment. JMO. I wonder how CW would have reacted had the girls just blown out his birthday candles?

I hope lots of videos of Shanann and the girls are shown at trial because I feel if the jury watches them and also hears testimony from her friends and family they will see how loving she was. The videos may not tell us anything about why these murders happened but they show us glimpses of their personalities. There's no doubt in my mind SW could not have harmed her girls. MOO.

These videos make me so sad. I also only see a normal (or above average) woman who loves her family. And the girls are SO precious. Nobody is perfect, but I don't understand the unfavorable light some people seem to see SW in. I don't get it. In fact, I'm sure she could've sold me on Thrive based on her apparent energy and spirit and enthusiasm for life and family, which is saying something because I'm *really* not into stuff like that. If it's not a cute little kid selling cookies, I'm immune to sales pitches!

 

[tmar]

This is fascinating, it's like they're working off the same script. I wonder too what CW would've done next.

I wonder if CW has read these books, and decided to 'fine tune' his actions/plans, to get away with his murders.

 

[margarita25]

You're welcome.

That one jumped out at me too! The woman who worked with CL at Starbucks and also babysat MJL & CL's children, sounded eerily similar to NUA for that exact reason. It's chilling. Jmo

From the 48 hours episode re: CL:

The Pretender: The case of Christian Longo

From The Daily Beast re: CW:

Last Person to See Shanann Alive: Why I Suspect Chris Watts

Additionally from the last link:

“He just kept saying that he didn’t know where she was and that she was on a playdate,” said Atkinson, recalling the conversation she had with Chris the day Shanann went missing. “But he couldn’t give us the name of the friend. I knew he had something to do with it the day I was at his house with him, but I didn’t want to think that.”

 

[katydid23]

Yeah, Collette's family believed him until her stepdad found he had lied to them about killing one of the "real" perps of the crime. Then they realized if he lied about that, what else? And why?

SW's in laws also believed him for sometime, until they found out about the affair.

CW is nowhere near as charming or charismatic as SP or JM. He didn't have anyone fooled for a second.

As to the bolded---did you mean SW? Or is that supposed to be SP?

 

[rainynights]

But I agree, CW doesn’t have the charisma of either JMD or SP. And if he tries to put SW on trial a la JA, well he doesn’t seem to have her verbal gymnastics skills either. IMO.

sbm

Well said! While I agree, I have to say that I was also quite proud of myself that I was able to understand that without a question. I had to laugh because between all of the initials, if I had read those two sentences a couple months ago (pre-WS), I wouldn't have a clue what was being talked about. Gotta love WS - we're in good company here! Jmo

 

[gitana1]

Yes, as I wrote this, it reminded me of a case, that LEO was convinced that the Mother's BF had killed the child. And, 99% of the time, when a child disappears, it is a person close to the child. Sadly, because of those "statistics", I don't think that LEO really did a comprehensive investigation. Eventually the killer was caught.
Nathaniel Bar-Jonah - Wikipedia

Sometimes, statistics are not correct. Very true.

What victim?

 

[RachB65]

I always wonder why he told Freddie Kassab that story. It was exponentially more weird than even the Manson Hippie story. It was never going to quell the doubts.

But I agree, CW doesn’t have the charisma of either JMD or SP. And if he tries to put SW on trial a la JA, well he doesn’t seem to have her verbal gymnastics skills either. IMO.

 

[RachB65]

Thats where JM was stupid; he told him that to get Freddy to back off about finding the "killers". But along with that, Kassab had also hounded JM for the Article 32 hearing transcript, the military hearing that ultimately dismissed the charges against him. After reading it, Kassab was convinced of JM's guilt after months of being his staunchest supporter. The icing on the cake was JM's behavior and "performance" on the Dick Cavett show.

 

[MassGuy]

Additionally from the last link:

“He just kept saying that he didn’t know where she was and that she was on a playdate,” said Atkinson, recalling the conversation she had with Chris the day Shanann went missing. “But he couldn’t give us the name of the friend. I knew he had something to do with it the day I was at his house with him, but I didn’t want to think that.”

I find this quote in particular, quite telling. It indicates that when he began acting suspiciously, she began to suspect his involvement.

You know how we hear cases of women saying to their friends “If something happens to me, my husband did it?”

Going by this statement by NA, something like that didn’t occur, and her suspicions came later, as a direct consequence of him behaving strangely.