Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #42

[nwmouse]

Did you ever read the book Fatal Vision? I actually found his relentless womanizing and cheating on his wife, his long stretches away from his family, always inviting outsiders into family gatherings, including an adoring(male) co-worker, to be huge indications of his insecurities and inability to to be closely bonded with his family. Regardless of his arrogance and confidence. Overcompensating methinks

I haven't read the book, just watched the movie.
IMHO he was portrayed as arrogant and did not "seem" the least bit insecure in the movie.
Perhaps the book will offer better insight into JMcD.
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll get it out the library, sounds like a good read.

 

[book-thinker]

News here in Washington State.

Washington State supreme court tosses out the death penalty.
Today, Washington State is now the 20th state to abolished the death penalty.

Interested if Colorado State supreme court is reviewing the death penalty?

 

[MassGuy]

News here in Washington State.

Washington State supreme court tosses out the death penalty.
Today, Washington State is now the 20th state to abolished the death penalty.

Interested if Colorado State supreme court is reviewing the death penalty?

They already don’t use it, so abolishing it wouldn’t be that big a step.

 

[WildWest]

It is just that selling these products and fake lifestyle is terribly irritating.

I've personally witnessed living a certain lifestyle--in Colorado (specifically near there)--that is fake and beyond the couples means. Several couples over... I had laminate countertops in our beautiful home of 21 years and was pressured and chastised about them (sorry, they worked just fine. looked just fine and granite countertops was not in our budget). I have to mention again, $70K in unsecured credit card debt is NOT unheard of, but rather more common than many here expect or know of. The market there makes it easy to refinance and clear out credit card debt every several years. Especially since the housing market has recovered, a $400K home is closer to the norm than extravagant. Even a very small old home is VERY expensive now (even with calculating in previous lower inflation). Thus all the farm/ranch lands being sold to housing developers like the Watt's neighborhood and all the once small towns now shoulder to shoulder borders.

I think CO is a no fault state? Cheaters don’t matter

That is what I understand, 50/50 regardless of fault, "irreconcilable differences" whether someone beat the other or cheated etc. Many Colorado'ans here as well as atty's on this thread, so correct me if I'm wrong but that is what it was last I knew.

@liltexans , I just read up on the last execution in Colorado, I somehow conveniently missed it (too engrossed in my career and the freak floods of 97' and those funerals I suppose) but it's chilling. I so hope SW did not have to endure anything like that. So many here have mentioned CW looks great in his interviews, I cannot help but mention the yellow under his eyes and wonder if he'd drank heavily at night for some period of time (of course, he was sober for his "interviews" ).

 

[liltexans]

It's time to close the thread for the night. Harmony will open the thread in the morning. Have a good night!

 

[Harmony 2]

Good morning!

link

 

[Nikynoo]

Good morning all!

I have been thinking about the motion for the sealing of autopsy reports in this case.

Potential release of Christopher Watts case autopsies is focus of conflicting arguments

“Zansberg also said he doesn't know of any case where autopsy reports have been withheld due to the chance of substantial injury to the public interest after charges have been filed.”


https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/[L] MOTION TO DENY DISCLOSURE OF PUBLIC RECORD PURSUANT TO CRS 24-72-204(6)(A).pdf


“The disclosure of this information to the public prior to trial could result in tainting witnesses that have not yet been interviewed and impacting future jurors.”


@Amandaaa and anyone else who wishes to chime in: -

Do you think its is possible, taking together;

1. the motion filed by the prosecution to seal the autopsy reports; and

2. the fact that there are no known cases where autopsy reports have been withheld after charges have been filed,

that there may be another person of interest to LE? - and this is why the DA wants the autopsies sealed?

 

[JudgeJudi]

Howdy folks, good morning and g’day.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I still kind of wonder if was he was encouraged to do them by LE (and the Thayers?). I think they knew something was hinky from the get go. They told him not to go out and search himself but perhaps they were saying - hey, you can get the word out. Talk to the press. Then they could just sit back and see what he might reveal. Jmo.

Chris Watts: They just say, hey if they need to get on a flight just let them know because, I mean, they don’t… they feel hopeless right now because they… they are on the opposite side of the country, I mean, Colorado, I mean, can’t just drive around and look, I mean, it’s just like you wouldn’t really know what you are looking for, that’s what the cops told me, the first day I was like: I want to get out and drive around! You wouldn’t know what to look for.

Analysis of some excerpts from an interview released by Chris Watts before his arrest for the murder of his pregnant wife Shannan and their two daughters

 

[Sheenaisapunkrocker]

Morning! I'm obsessing on this case. It's disturbing to read the comments on Shanann's
SM videos (you tube), essentially blaming her for getting murdered! They can't see through Chris' Perfect Helpful Hubby mask.

 

[riolove77]

I always wonder why he told Freddie Kassab that story. It was exponentially more weird than even the Manson Hippie story. It was never going to quell the doubts.

But I agree, CW doesn’t have the charisma of either JMD or SP. And if he tries to put SW on trial a la JA, well he doesn’t seem to have her verbal gymnastics skills either. IMO.

I honestly think he thought he was smarter than the Kassabs too. That he could just tell them that, and it would garner respect for him, plus sway them if they had any inkling whatsoever that perhaps he was involved.

 

[riolove77]

As to the bolded---did you mean SW? Or is that supposed to be SP?

Yes, I meant SP. Sorry! So many acronyms.

 

[riolove77]

Morning! I'm obsessing on this case. It's disturbing to read the comments on Shanann's
SM videos (you tube), essentially blaming her for getting murdered! They can't see through Chris' Perfect Helpful Hubby mask.

Oh, they can. They don't want to.

 

[JudgeJudi]

If the LE finds evidence of an accessory, I am prepared to review this version. But nothing has been offered so far. And SW is innocent.

As are her beautiful loving little girls, and her unborn child who never even got to see the light of day.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Hi, May I ask you a question, Tippy Lynn? I hope this is not against the TOS. Please remove if it is. I would like to tell you, Tippy, that I appreciate your sense of innocence and trust. I think one of the worst things in life would be to be accused/convicted for something you did not do. I 100% believe that CW killed all 4 of his family members (3 his children!!). But I appreciate your kindness and open mindedness in the face of such evidence. So here’s my question. You state that you need more information before you believe/feel CW guilty of these crimes. Proof. If there is no proof, in a hypothetical scenario where you are a juror in a murder trial where the evidence is purely circumstantial... let’s say that even the “victim” has disappeared, has never been found, and is deemed deceased at the hands of the accused, or any circumstantial case, like Scott P, Drew P, etc... sitting on a jury, could you ever find someone guilty without “proof” and based on purely circumstantial evidence? I apologize if this is/seems intrusive, and please don’t answer if you have any reservations at all to do so.

Thanks Misy. I agree - being wrongly accused or convicted of a crime would be one of the worst things a person would endure. Sadly, it happens and IMO it happens too often.
If I was a juror on a murder case with purely circumstantial evidence I would most definitely find a person guilty of a crime if it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt. In this case, I don't have enough proof beyond a reasonable doubt to convict CW for murdering his two daughters. So far, everything we know points in the direction of his guilt, but IMO not enough to prove he killed his daughters. I'm confident that more information will come out at trial (if there is one) to prove one way or another who is responsible for the murder of the girls. Either way, I believe CW will spend the rest of his life in prison - even without a conviction for murdering his daughters. Initially, I thought CW was 100% guilty, but as time goes on and with my emotions more in check I've been able to look at the entire picture with more of an open mind. (Not so open that my brains fall out).

Over the years I've learned there's always more to the story. I've followed cases where I was convinced a person was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt only to come to find out the information given out to the public from LE and the media was biased and construed. The man LE and the media pointed at was wrongly accused and convicted by the public. A different man finally confessed and was convicted for the crime 20 years later. The man who was wrongly accused is now suing for damages. IMO the damages done to that man can't be repaired and the years with a dark cloud hanging over his head can't be undone. (I'm referring to the Jacob Wetterling Case).

FWIW - On a day to day basis, I'm not typically an overly trusting person. I'm usually very aware of my surroundings and when I get the feeling something isn't right (gut feeling) I listen.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Perhaps if you read the story of SP’s mother, it would become obvious. She is a victim of horrible circumstances that were chosen for her as a child. Sad, but true that the trauma lives on

True, but without knowing CW's family background and child hood experiences how can you compare the two?

 

[Sheenaisapunkrocker]

I honestly think he thought he was smarter than the Kassabs too. That he could just tell them that, and it would garner respect for him, plus sway them if they had any inkling whatsoever that perhaps he was involved.

It's a shame there wasn't the DNA and forensic technology back then, because I would love to know the results! JM, CW and SP all seem to share the common narc trait - they care only for themselves ETA - and they're all serial adulterers. JM thought he was smarter than everyone. I read Fatal Vision several times.
JMO

 

[idfinch]

Thanks Misy. I agree - being wrongly accused or convicted of a crime would be one of the worst things a person would endure. Sadly, it happens and IMO it happens too often.
If I was a juror on a murder case with purely circumstantial evidence I would most definitely find a person guilty of a crime if it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt. In this case, I don't have enough proof beyond a reasonable doubt to convict CW for murdering his two daughters. So far, everything we know points in the direction of his guilt, but IMO not enough to prove he killed his daughters. I'm confident that more information will come out at trial (if there is one) to prove one way or another who is responsible for the murder of the girls. Either way, I believe CW will spend the rest of his life in prison - even without a conviction for murdering his daughters. Initially, I thought CW was 100% guilty, but as time goes on and with my emotions more in check I've been able to look at the entire picture with more of an open mind. (Not so open that my brains fall out).

Over the years I've learned there's always more to the story. I've followed cases where I was convinced a person was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt only to come to find out the information given out to the public from LE and the media was biased and construed. The man LE and the media pointed at was wrongly accused and convicted by the public. A different man finally confessed and was convicted for the crime 20 years later. The man who was wrongly accused is now suing for damages. IMO the damages done to that man can't be repaired and the years with a dark cloud hanging over his head can't be undone. (I'm referring to the Jacob Wetterling Case).

FWIW - On a day to day basis, I'm not typically an overly trusting person. I'm usually very aware of my surroundings and when I get the feeling something isn't right (gut feeling) I listen.

Thank you for explaining how you feel and where you are coming from. I understand a lot better now why you feel you want to see everything that comes out at trial before sliding your butt cheek off that fence.

Agree what happened in the JW case was so wrong and corrupt it can't be repaired for that poor man. Ever. I personally don't see that type of scenario here with CW, but I fully appreciate not wanting to convict anyone in the public eye or media until you see all of the evidence for yourself rather than just what we've been given.

 

[Thepoet]

Chris Watts: They just say, hey if they need to get on a flight just let them know because, I mean, they don’t… they feel hopeless right now because they… they are on the opposite side of the country, I mean, Colorado, I mean, can’t just drive around and look, I mean, it’s just like you wouldn’t really know what you are looking for, that’s what the cops told me, the first day I was like: I want to get out and drive around! You wouldn’t know what to look for.

Analysis of some excerpts from an interview released by Chris Watts before his arrest for the murder of his pregnant wife Shannan and their two daughters

I find it interesting that CW said he wanted to get out and drive around. Why, to go back and move SW's body? Flee the jurisdiction? He knew they were dead, so why drive around looking? At the very least this shows how cold and callous he was and determined to create a false narrative.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Thank you for explaining how you feel and where you are coming from. I understand a lot better now why you feel you want to see everything that comes out at trial before sliding your butt cheek off that fence.

Agree what happened in the JW case was so wrong and corrupt it can't be repaired for that poor man. Ever. I personally don't see that type of scenario here with CW, but I fully appreciate not wanting to convict anyone in the public eye or media until you see all of the evidence for yourself rather than just what we've been given.

Thank you. I'm glad it helped you understand where I'm coming from. I hope it helps others who have been questioning where I'm coming from as well. It's hard because the two cases are not similar, but we still don't know what we don't know. The JW case made me learn to take a step back and try to keep a somewhat open mind when looking at cases. Although, there are some cases that you just can't.