Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #43

[Thepoet]

It happens mother’s have killed their children before.

I would refer you to Gitana1's earlier and excellent post.

1. Women who kill their children overwhelmingly show evidence of mental health issues/volatile behavior prior to the murders. 911 calls. Hospitalization. Suicide attempts and threats. Threats to do harm. Dosmetic violence.

There is no evidence of that here.

2. Nicole Utoft has spoken quite a bit about why she was concerned. Not once did she mention that it was because SW had been acting weird or because she felt she was in danger of harming herself, despite desperate attempts of various people attempting to make that allegation. It's just not reality.

She has been clear as to her reasons for alarm. SW's pregnancy and not feeling well, not answering the phone, car parked in the garage and notably, CW's nonchalant behavior and stranger attempts to deflect (we are separating) are what worried her.

3. There has not been one real case in written history that I can find where one parent kills their children and in a rage the other one immediately kills that parent, in the exact same manner.

4. I have not heard of one case where one parent murders their children and the other parent fails to call for help and instead quietly and stealthily immediately conceals the crime and hides the bodies, except when they are implicated in the deaths of the children.

5. Insecurity doesn't equal murder.

6. If there was anything significant in the autopsy report for the defense they'd request a bond hearing.

7. I have cited a few high profile cases where the state sought to seal autopsy reports until trial and one lesser known homicide case in CO. It's not super common but in cases that are in the news there's a reason for the state to want to seal info that makes the defendant look bad. No one wants end up with geniuses like the jurors who served at the casey anthony trial. Except the defense.

And the more stuff is published, the more likely that is.

I still remember days of jury selection. One after another possible juror eliminated: "Yes I read the news and I feel she's guilty."

What were they left with? People who don't read the news and/or people who didn't find the facts released due to sunshine laws, indicative of her guilt.

Prosecutors like to avoid that.

8. Affairs are present in many cases of male family annihilators.

9. Murder is the second cause of death of pregnant women.

I think this answers it all.

It happens mother’s have killed their children before.

 

[NuttMegg]

Likely came from the same person's thumb who has alleged that SW could have faked/pranked her pregnancy.
MOO.

And they "FLED" NC to go west. And there's no proof she was pregnant, and if so, no proof it was from CW. I guess if LE called the OBGYN office to confirm pregnancy and stage, the doctors there would lie to cover for SW's "prank" pregnancy.

 

[mtnlites]

I will be able to take alternative theories seriously when they are not based on armchair psychology (SW was histrionic! She was borderline!), rumors (she may not have been pregnant! Maybe the baby wasn't his!), half-truths (she was always on vacation-even though he was usually with her! He did all the work-even though there are literal videos of her talking about all the cleaning and child rearing she did), and avoidance of facts.

Nobody is stopping anyone from posting. It is your right to post your opinion, but it is also other people's right to tell you they disagree.

 

[JEM1975]

well, let's do it without snark.

I'd like to hear some valid reasons that we should believe what CW has to say about that tragic incident.

I agree

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Yes, but in almost every case the circumstances surrounding the crime are completely different. Shanann did not have any signs of behavior seen in these cases. It would be unprecedented, but not likely. Jmo

I haven't seen another case like this one.

 

[Johnny1181]

Well this is a weird WS glitch. I get an alert you quoted my post, but it links links to your response to Mybelle.

Just goes to prove that things aren’t always perfect.

I just had a glitch in a response too... I got a big message on my screen that said server error. Things seem normal now though

 

[Johnny1181]

I haven't seen another case like this one.

Could you share the research you said you've done leading to alternative theories other than CW being an FA so that we can discuss? We're here to discuss plausible theories

 

[PommyMommy]

Oh, yes, I asked about that as soon as I saw it, but then there were so many other things I wanted to know I forgot all about it. I would still like to know where that came from.

I wouldn't be surprised if Shanann was planning a romantic getaway, as I've thought all along that she was a woman who loved her husband and wanted to keep her family together. But, at least four different posters asked for a link (I keep track ) and of course, no response. So, I kind of think it may be one of those things that may be true but can't be linked, because it was a FB post that only his/her family could see or the post has been removed. MOO

 

[bonjoviblonde]

I don't consider interpretting FB or Instagram videos or reading random comments on those accounts research, but I would love to hear some real research on why we should consider SW the killer instead of CW.

 

[PommyMommy]

Yes this is a favorite trope of CW fans. I've been going on FB to get my SW/CW fix since AB and WS stopped. The fan girls over there Loooooove to bash every tiny thing about SW and to me it is disturbing and honestly quite sickening. They willfully deny all of the facts, going so far to say CW didn't even kill SW. It's nuts.

So glad you survived, esayer! You couldn't pay me enough...LOL Makes ya wonder why CW would confess...eh, nevermind. MOO

 

[MassGuy]

I haven't seen another case like this one.

John List, Bradford Bishop, Neil Entwistle, Robert William Fisher, Christopher Coleman.... There are literally too many cases to list, that parallel this one.

 

[Thepoet]

It’s not what he has to say, but more along the lines of what we don’t know and what hasn’t been proven that opens the possibility for me.
IMO

Intellect and logic tell me that based on what we do know, about CW and his lies, actions, and confessions, there is a lot we don't know that will further and firmly prove his guilt. There are some things that haven't been proven, but that is because there are no facts and evidence to prove them. Occam's Razor. The greatest and most probable possibility is that CW is a family annihilator and killed them all. MOO. I'm open to any facts and evidence that would support a different conclusion.

 

[RachB65]

I wouldn't be surprised if Shanann was planning a romantic getaway, as I've thought all along that she was a woman who loved her husband and wanted to keep her family together. But, at least four different posters asked for a link (I keep track ) and of course, no response. So, I kind of think it may be one of those things that may be true but can't be linked, because it was a FB post that only his/her family could see or the post has been removed. MOO

I first saw this stated as fact in a post yesterday(or day before) by Wildflower, i think. I too asked for a link right after reading it.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

What I am saying (it is mo) is that to me, it is within the realm of probability that a young lady who described herself as being fragile in her videos about how everything was so bad earlier that there might be a pretty intense response to actually hear what she might have heard that night.

For any individual who endlessly tells the world how her husband is the best. The greatest. Her rock. She could not survive without him. Would not be here if it were not for him. That is the greatest. That takes total care of her. The provides for her better than any other person she has ever met in her existence thus far - in her life. The best daddy ever. The best husband ever. Ever.

Might be pretty traumatized to finally hear, for the first time, that this greatest person ever is actually leaving.

That is an emotional conversation. Out of anything he said that description of the night so struck me. His leaving the area fits with what I think actually happened.

SHE lost it - at first not him. MOO. She also might have learned that night for the very first time that he found love with someone else might be pretty upsetting.

To then learn that in addition to learning your rock. your foundation, what you take in every breath for every minute of your life , has also been enjoying sex with men - that is a reasonably rough conversation.

For someone who endless states how another person is the rock of their lives - it might make some sense to feel some deep wounding, rage.

The notion that someone in that moment might not want to strike back in the most dramatic fashion is really not all that out there.

What way could she hurt him the most. He had love. Employ. His children. In a rage IMO that is what happened that night.

Just like each of you have your opinion - I do as well.

One can not have it both ways. Either it was all a commercial or a cover for a very scared and lonely young lady. Per her reports she describes being left by everyone.

IMO in reality the chronic need to endlessly chant how awesome he is indicative of some profound insecurities.

Kind of like hearing herself say it all the time. It certainly is not typical at that point in a relationship. At first maybe - after years of marriage it was strange and peculiar.

Just another angle - it is not beyond being possible. LE filed all the charges weeks before any medical examination.

To conclude that LE does not believe him when they charged him with it all, instantly, weeks before anything was known, is more than curious.

Every state is different - but there sure is an interesting and relentless need to keep the autopsy secret. That also, is not common.

That is what I think happened. Difference is what makes the world interesting.

It doesn't seem like you're familiar with 'women's talk'. Women bare their souls and share the good and bad times, how they've endured divorce, breakups, illness, losses, and then, count their blessings for the good that's come after. I'm not like this, but appreciate women I know who are able to do so, there are a few men among them too. They're strong people, if they choose to open up it doesn't make them weak!

I listen to podcasts and watch vlogs of women (men too! ) recounting stories of overcoming adversity, it's how it is today. There appears to be a generation gap which is holding back logical thinking, women are being held accountable for their own deaths because they use social media! It can be considered by some to be oversharing and negative, it's okay to have this opinion but it's counterproductive to hold it against a murder victim when she is no different to countless others.
If only CW opened up a bit, maybe there'd be a different outcome. JMO

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Could you share the research you said you've done leading to alternative theories other than CW being an FA so that we can discuss? We're here to discuss plausible theories

I've likely done the same research as others have following the case. IMO the possibilities are there.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

John List, Bradford Bishop, Neil Entwistle, Robert William Fisher, Christopher Coleman.... There are literally too many cases to list, that parallel this one.

Each of them confessed to killing their pregnant wife and blamed their wives for killing their children??

 

[Thepoet]

I haven't seen another case like this one.

The Jeffrey MacDonald Case, almost fifty years ago is eerily similar. Adulterous husband, pregnant wife, two daughters (almost the same age)! McDonald blamed crazed hippies though, not his wife.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Intellect and logic tell me that based on what we do know, about CW and his lies, actions, and confessions, there is a lot we don't know that will further and firmly prove his guilt. There are some things that haven't been proven, but that is because there are no facts and evidence to prove them. Occam's Razor. The greatest and most probable possibility is that CW is a family annihilator and killed them all. MOO. I'm open to any facts and evidence that would support a different conclusion.

Believe it or not, intellect is also telling some the door is open for other possibilities. There's still a lot we don't know that may prove he was telling the truth.
jmo

 

[MyBelle]

Gitana1 was discussing this earlier:
Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #43

Quoting:
"1. Women who kill their children overwhelmingly show evidence of mental health issues/volatile behavior prior to the murders. 911 calls. Hospitalization. Suicide attempts and threats. Threats to do harm. Dosmetic violence.

There is no evidence of that here.

2. Nicole Utoft has spoken quite a bit about why she was concerned. Not once did she mention that it was because SW had been acting weird or because she felt she was in danger of harming herself, despite desperate attempts of various people attempting to make that allegation. It's just not reality.

She has been clear as to her reasons for alarm. SW's pregnancy and not feeling well, not answering the phone, car parked in the garage and notably, CW's nonchalant behavior and stranger attempts to deflect (we are separating) are what worried her.

3. There has not been one real case in written history that I can find where one parent kills their children and in a rage the other one immediately kills that parent, in the exact same manner.

4. I have not heard of one case where one parent murders their children and the other parent fails to call for help and instead quietly and stealthily immediately conceals the crime and hides the bodies, except when they are implicated in the deaths of the children.

5. Insecurity doesn't equal murder.

6. If there was anything significant in the autopsy report for the defense they'd request a bond hearing.

7. I have cited a few high profile cases where the state sought to seal autopsy reports until trial and one lesser known homicide case in CO. It's not super common but in cases that are in the news there's a reason for the state to want to seal info that makes the defendant look bad. No one wants end up with geniuses like the jurors who served at the casey anthony trial. Except the defense.

And the more stuff is published, the more likely that is.

I still remember days of jury selection. One after another possible juror eliminated: "Yes I read the news and I feel she's guilty."

What were they left with? People who don't read the news and/or people who didn't find the facts released due to sunshine laws, indicative of her guilt.

Prosecutors like to avoid that.

8. Affairs are present in many cases of male family annihilators.

9. Murder is the second cause of death of pregnant women."

In the case of the Lemak children, their mother didn't display any serious signs of mental illness prior to their murders or their physician father would have intervened. In the Hoggle case, the mother was left alone with the children by her own parents.

Just because NUA hasn't publicly said she was concerned about SW's mental health doesn't mean she was not concerned and did not express her concerns to LE. I think LE responded so quickly--and involved the FBI-- because there was genuine fear SW would harm the children.
It is not illegal for a custodial parent to take their children from their home. The FBI only gets involved if it believes the children have been kidnapped and the children are a "tender age."

Investigating Child Abductions — FBI

 

[MassGuy]

Each of them confessed to killing their pregnant wife and blamed their wives for killing their children??

No. None of them were dumb enough to come up with a story that stupid, nor arrogant enough to apparently believe that people would fall for it.