Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #43

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  • #241
I'm wondering if in being clever, the defense has made a mistake. I believe, as in most trials of this kind, there will be an issue of "is the defendant a future threat to society?" Isn't this what has kept the Manson family in prison? Now, is the defense laying a groundwork for instability or psychosis that could come back to haunt them?
 
  • #242
I am stating downline pay through MLM. It is like a pyramid. So we know CW had Qualified for a car payment which means he was a high level on her downline pay. Imo it is not uncommon to think she may have sold under his name to increase her volume and household business. I can’t see he had much time working full time to do so on his own and she was heavily vested into her business success. Imo most MLM will recruit family first. This increases their level faster. Sadly if that was the case it would be her work and business she would lose under his name. That’s what makes me think he is an important part of her pay level. I am not sure how much time away from home he spent. I know he took care of them while she traveled, her parents did for both of them to travel and his parents did for both of them to travel as well. I recall every interview stating he was a great dad before this so I am assuming through interviews and her media he was not an absentee dad.

JMO, but the more she lost, the more he would have had to pay. Just more and more reasons piling on as to why he killed each and every member of his family. MOO
 
  • #243
I am stating downline pay through MLM. It is like a pyramid. So we know CW had Qualified for a car payment which means he was a high level on her downline pay. Imo it is not uncommon to think she may have sold under his name to increase her volume and household business. I can’t see he had much time working full time to do so on his own and she was heavily vested into her business success. Imo most MLM will recruit family first. This increases their level faster. Sadly if that was the case it would be her work and business she would lose under his name. That’s what makes me think he is an important part of her pay level. I am not sure how much time away from home he spent. I know he took care of them while she traveled, her parents did for both of them to travel and his parents did for both of them to travel as well. I recall every interview stating he was a great dad before this so I am assuming through interviews and her media he was not an absentee dad.
I can't imagine that having an AP for many months would not take up his time away from work. I wonder where he squeezed that time from. Family activities?
 
  • #244
JMO, of course, but I would think he would have been UNBELIEVABLY upset if she threatened to leave him and remain in the house, plus child support for THREE children. I don't imagine that would leave him much for his "extra-curricular" activities. IMO I believe the handwriting was already on the wall when she got home.
Maybe the stomach contents of the girls will show TOD was that night. Perhaps that’s why defense wants them sealed. He seemed hands on as a dad. I don’t understand how she would stay in that house and he have to carry more weight . Colorado divorce laws do not guarantee that.
 
  • #245
I posted this (above) in reference HIV testing upon entry into a state correctional facility.
But is this carried for everyone, even if they're awaiting trial? Isnt CW in jail and not a state correctional facility? is there a difference?
ETA

In 95% of cases HIV can be detected 4 weeks after infection. If a negative result is given at 4 week, another test can be undertaken in 3 months.
How soon can I take an HIV test? | Guides | HIV i-Base
 
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  • #246
But the state wasn’t concerned about the jury pool when defense made a motion to investigate leaks right?
I actually think there have been very few leaks in this case. It would be a waste of resources IMO to investigate the couple leaks that could have easily come from the jail or periphery LE, IMO. The DA was confident leaks were not coming from their office nor were they significant, IMO. For example, nothing from the autopsy reports has leaked nor from his confession/interviews with LE.
 
  • #247
Looking at the NC trip, her posts suggested she wanted to come home, she missed Colorado. She hated the weather it was bad on her health and the girls allergies in the weather too. Her parents I am sure would support her just as I would assume his family would support him. That is usually how divorce works imo. She seemed to love Colorado imo from her posts and love her life there. She even had already enrolled the girls in school there. She came back to Colorado and only one reason imo would be she wanted to. Why leave NC if your plan was to live there? If she made more money then he would maybe not have to pay as much support right? If he was happy with her gone and wanted to be single as some suggest, why be mad she was leaving him? IMP The only logical thing to me seems is she was upset . She was pregnant with two children. She based her business recruitment on lifestyle. She would lose CW as her promoter. She would lose everyone under him as well. If she recruited him early she could lose most of her downline pay. She would lose eligibility of car. She would lose the house if they chose to sell. So I am not understanding the motive for CW based upon these factors . Moo
Well if we're going to think logically now, let's remember that per one of our VI's, CW's FB looked very similar to Shanann's in that it was used to promote Thrive, and he shut down his FB in the weeks prior to the murders. It was reported that she posted from AZ saying she couldn't wait to get home (paraphrasing), NUA said that Shanann wasn't feeling well, and of course, SW was 15 weeks pregnant. So, are you suggesting we believe that weeks after CW stopped promoting Thrive, when SW is no doubt exhausted and unwell, she suddenly decided in the wee hours of the morning to strangle her children because she might lose her car eligibility and have to move? That's not at all logical to me. MOO
 
  • #248
I posted this (above) in reference HIV testing upon entry into a state correctional facility.

Thank you Backstroke, I knew I wasn’t imagining reading that.
 
  • #249
I can't imagine that having an AP for many months would not take up his time away from work. I wonder where he squeezed that time from. Family activities?
Not that I can see he seemed there for all parties and holidays. In fact SW stated what a great dad he was and how amazing he was. How do you know the length of time? I have been looking for a timeline and unable to find it? If it had been months then are you thinking she knew about affair is why she went to NC? Do you think if she knew of affair in NC and had not planned on staying in marriage ? Seems odd she would have posted about a romantic getaway suggestion for them the week before her death if she knew. Imo she knew problems had thought he had “no game” thought he would miss her, then was devaststated to know he was leaving her. Moo
 
  • #250
I am stating downline pay through MLM. It is like a pyramid. So we know CW had Qualified for a car payment which means he was a high level on her downline pay. Imo it is not uncommon to think she may have sold under his name to increase her volume and household business. I can’t see he had much time working full time to do so on his own and she was heavily vested into her business success. Imo most MLM will recruit family first. This increases their level faster. Sadly if that was the case it would be her work and business she would lose under his name. That’s what makes me think he is an important part of her pay level. I am not sure how much time away from home he spent. I know he took care of them while she traveled, her parents did for both of them to travel and his parents did for both of them to travel as well. I recall every interview stating he was a great dad before this so I am assuming through interviews and her media he was not an absentee dad.

Her friends told reporters that he had been distracted lately, not affectionate as usual nor as involved with the girls. Up to the affair(s) he seemingly had been a loving and involved family man. We really dont know exactly when this change took place but he surely was absent from the NC trip for 5 weeks.
I dont believe she had much to lose with her business when it came to him. At the very least, earnings from his downline could easily have helped,from his end, toward child support, alimony, etc.I doubt him leaving her would cause much monetary loss from HER business.
 
  • #251
Confessions can be unsafe ground as far as whether they are strong evidence, though.

You can have false confessions.

CW has made an allegation that S killed the children, but I think it's a good idea to consider that a very questionable accusation as opposed to strong evidence. You do need to consider who is making the accusation, and if they're the only other person who could have committed a crime, then you have to consider them as a suspect and not rule them out based on their accusation against the only other adult in the house at the time.

It also seems reasonably common for family annihilators to accuse someone else of all or part of the crime, and that includes accusing their wife/victim of being the one who killed the children.

In a case like this the CW position individual has very strong reason to lie. CW did lie for days about killing his wife. Lying about who killed the children has a big benefit to him if he did it, because the difference in punishment for an angry killing of his wife is so different from a premeditated killing of three people including two young children.

Confessions are part of a story, but they can't be considered the be all and end all.
Very well said! Bravo!
 
  • #252
Absolutely. I know from experience that the worst thing a woman can do to a man having a tantrum is to say "Ya, see ya later, I'm going to walk the dogs. Hope you calm down". I suspect she said something similar, like "hey Chris, I already know about the AP, and I do want to split, but for now let's go to sleep, I need to work in the morning, and am tired from working all weekend". Which would have infuriated him, being brushed off by her, and most likely (IMO) the AP earlier in the weekend. What would he do without a woman to run the show?

Yes, she probably really hurt his ego, especially with him being a covert narcissist, what I suspect anyway.
 
  • #253
Maybe the stomach contents of the girls will show TOD was that night. Perhaps that’s why defense wants them sealed. He seemed hands on as a dad. I don’t understand how she would stay in that house and he have to carry more weight . Colorado divorce laws do not guarantee that.
I do not personally see how the stomach contents can help CW's case. I only see how they could hurt it if it shows the children were murdered before SW came home. If it does not show that, then it is not helpful to either side, IMO. Just because he might not have murdered the children long before SW, does not mean he did not murder the children. Re staying in the house, I personally think she was contemplating a move to North Carolina if their marriage dissolved, which would have been catastrophic for him. Perhaps if he would lose the children anyway, he thought no one should have them? Just a thought.
 
  • #254
Well if we're going to think logically now, let's remember that per one of our VI's, CW's FB looked very similar to Shanann's in that it was used to promote Thrive, and he shut down his FB in the weeks prior to the murders. It was reported that she posted from AZ saying she couldn't wait to get home (paraphrasing), NUA said that Shanann wasn't feeling well, and of course, SW was 15 weeks pregnant. So, are you suggesting we believe that weeks after CW stopped promoting Thrive, when SW is no doubt exhausted and unwell, she suddenly decided in the wee hours of the morning to strangle her children because she might lose her car eligibility and have to move? That's not at all logical to me. MOO
I’m suggesting she promoted on his page and did all the leg work. He was an introvert. She would benefit and so would he if his sales were great. I am suggesting she found out about affair maybe that’s why she “didn’t feel well” I wouldn’t either. NUA had spoken with her about things too it seems. I am suggesting she was frantic and scared and mad. It seems no different then the logic he would kill not to pay child support. I am unsure how losing everything and feeling alone, betrayed being hormonal due to pregnancy is not a motive but losing money paying child support and feeling hormonal bc of steroids is a motive .
 
  • #255
Not that I can see he seemed there for all parties and holidays. In fact SW stated what a great dad he was and how amazing he was. How do you know the length of time? I have been looking for a timeline and unable to find it? If it had been months then are you thinking she knew about affair is why she went to NC? Do you think if she knew of affair in NC and had not planned on staying in marriage ? Seems odd she would have posted about a romantic getaway suggestion for them the week before her death if she knew. Imo she knew problems had thought he had “no game” thought he would miss her, then was devaststated to know he was leaving her. Moo
As I mentioned earlier, I don't put a lot of stock in the videos. I believe they were oriented towards her extended family and towards her business. We don't know how many videos were posted privately.
As I mentioned before, I think she was planning an out with her supportive family where she could continue running her business even from their locale, and she knew about the AP as he was giving up family time for her, and that she was probably dismissive of him that Monday morning, knowing she had to work and to go to the doctor in a few short hours. IMO
 
  • #256
Not that I can see he seemed there for all parties and holidays. In fact SW stated what a great dad he was and how amazing he was. How do you know the length of time? I have been looking for a timeline and unable to find it? If it had been months then are you thinking she knew about affair is why she went to NC? Do you think if she knew of affair in NC and had not planned on staying in marriage ? Seems odd she would have posted about a romantic getaway suggestion for them the week before her death if she knew. Imo she knew problems had thought he had “no game” thought he would miss her, then was devaststated to know he was leaving her. Moo
If you think she was devastated to learn he was leaving her, then do you think both parents lost their minds and became murderers on the same night? And both parents did not care at all about the children enough to call 911 to try and save them? What a coincidence that would be, IMO. I can't imagine the statistical probability of that.
 
  • #257
Yes, she probably really hurt his ego, especially with him being a covert narcissist, what I suspect anyway.
He seemed very non ego. He had pies In the face for joy of his kids, put her in the spot light, did whatever she wanted to please her. It seems he was shy awkward even imo.
 
  • #258
Maybe the stomach contents of the girls will show TOD was that night. Perhaps that’s why defense wants them sealed. He seemed hands on as a dad. I don’t understand how she would stay in that house and he have to carry more weight . Colorado divorce laws do not guarantee that.
Up until any divorce resolutions or selling of the home he would still be responsible for at least half the mortgage as his name was on the deed, plain and simple
 
  • #259
He seemed very non ego. He had pies In the face for joy of his kids, put her in the spot light, did whatever she wanted to please her. It seems he was shy awkward even imo.
He did seem that way pre-murders. Yet, two FBI profilers said he showed incredible confidence in his ability to lie to do 3 media interviews and lie to the world while maintaining eye contact. That took ego we did not know about, IMO. So it was there, somewhere. My guess is that it was honed from years of being able to lie successfully about affairs and other things, IMO.
 
  • #260
He seemed very non ego. He had pies In the face for joy of his kids, put her in the spot light, did whatever she wanted to please her. It seems he was shy awkward even imo.
He was all ego in those porch videos, thinking he was smart enough to pull this off, lying, grinning, smirking, and showing off his shirt. jmo
 
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