Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #43

[ZsaZsa]

No, we don't have evidence that he lied for at least months.
All we know is that the affair was 'active'. We have no idea when the affair started.

The male that alleges he had a 10 month affair with CW states on Twitter that he was contacted by LE after they read messages to him on CW's phone. That is easily provable.

 

[PommyMommy]

• The answer is yes, I think those 'experts' are incorrect.
• Are they really experts are just wanting to raise their profile?
• I don't rely on anything that comes from the AB show or her friend Steve from People.

Don't forget, they are basing their 'opinion' on a recording which may, or may not have been manipulated. They have not interviewed CW in person, nor did they know him personally.

Yes, they are experts. Cheryl Arutt is a clinical and forensic psychologist. Dale Yeager is a forensic profiler and criminal behavior analyst and Max Wachtel is a clinical and forensic psychologist who is well known in this community for expert witness testimony. They all agree as to CW's ego.

MOO

 

[Thepoet]

No, we don't have evidence that he lied for at least months.
All we know is that the affair was 'active'. We have no idea when the affair started.

An affair is, in and of itself, a lie. Additional lies are often needed to sustain the original lie (the affair). Since the AP was a co-worker, lies would have been necessary at work, as well as at home. Also, someone does not just, one day, become a (major) liar. There has to be a lot leading up to it, in the form of smaller lies, and a comfort with lying has to be developed. In my opinion. Logic tells me that CW had been a liar for some time. Probably over a year.

 

[RachB65]

Yes, I agree. But my point is that there are lots of profilers and they are not all saying the same thing.

Could u link to an article about a profiler who has a different conclusion or viewpoint? I havent come across any like that yet

 

[Best of What's Around]

Yes, I agree. But my point is that there are lots of profilers and they are not all saying the same thing.

Interesting. Can you show me the credible professional profiler who says CW does not appear to be confident in his own ability to lie by virtue of granting 3 separate media interviews? I have not seen that one yet and would sincerely like to see it. I find profilers, particularly those trained by the FBI, to be fascinating.

 

[PommyMommy]

Kim Gorgens, a clinical professor in the graduate school of professional psychology at the University of Denver, has conducted extensive research on criminal behavior, and she believes Christopher Watts could be a psychopath.

"It's not a personality characteristic that you can pick out of a lineup. It's not like someone wears a sign that says you can't trust. In fact, it's the opposite of that," said Gorgens.

"You can't tell for sure, but I will be less than surprised to see the picture of a true psychopath emerge. Someone who is really winsome, charming and psychopathic. It's not unusual for them to evade detection," said Gorgens.
Professor: Christopher Watts could be a psychopath

 

[Nikynoo]

Could u link to an article about a profiler who has a different conclusion or viewpoint? I havent come across any like that yet

I will go look. I think its on the media thread. It was a retired FBI profiler.

 

[Nikynoo]

Kim Gorgens, a clinical professor in the graduate school of professional psychology at the University of Denver, has conducted extensive research on criminal behavior, and she believes Christopher Watts could be a psychopath.

"It's not a personality characteristic that you can pick out of a lineup. It's not like someone wears a sign that says you can't trust. In fact, it's the opposite of that," said Gorgens.

"You can't tell for sure, but I will be less than surprised to see the picture of a true psychopath emerge. Someone who is really winsome, charming and psychopathic. It's not unusual for them to evade detection," said Gorgens.
Professor: Christopher Watts could be a psychopath

I would hardly call CW 'winsome' or 'charming', those sound like outgoing traits to me, IMO

 

[PommyMommy]

I would hardly call CW 'winsome' or 'charming', those sound like outgoing traits to me, IMO

Well, it would appear that SW thought so, based on the fact that she married him and gushed over him on SM. I would also assume that the co-worker he was cheating with thought so as well, unless that was just all about that animalistic sex that's been reported. Additionally, charming does not necessarily mean "outgoing."
charm·ing
/ˈCHärmiNG/
adjective

1. pleasant or attractive.
   "a charming country cottage"
   synonyms: delightful, pleasing, pleasant, agreeable, likable, endearing, lovely, lovable, adorable, appealing, attractive, good-looking, prepossessing; More
   
   • (of a person or manner) polite, friendly, and likable.
     "he was a charming, affectionate colleague"

Dictionary.com - The world’s favorite online dictionary!
MOO

 

[Nikynoo]

Well, it would appear that SW thought so, based on the fact that she married him and gushed over him on SM. I would also assume that the co-worker he was cheating with thought so as well, unless that was just all about that animalistic sex that's been reported. Additionally, charming does not necessarily mean "outgoing."
charm·ing
/ˈCHärmiNG/
adjective

1. pleasant or attractive.
   "a charming country cottage"
   synonyms: delightful, pleasing, pleasant, agreeable, likable, endearing, lovely, lovable, adorable, appealing, attractive, good-looking, prepossessing; More
   • (of a person or manner) polite, friendly, and likable.
     "he was a charming, affectionate colleague"

Dictionary.com - The world’s favorite online dictionary!
MOO

Charming used together with 'winsome' and 'psychopathic' has a different connotation though.

 

[Thepoet]

Well, it would appear that SW thought so, based on the fact that she married him and gushed over him on SM. I would also assume that the co-worker he was cheating with thought so as well, unless that was just all about that animalistic sex that's been reported. Additionally, charming does not necessarily mean "outgoing."
charm·ing
/ˈCHärmiNG/
adjective

1. pleasant or attractive.
   "a charming country cottage"
   synonyms: delightful, pleasing, pleasant, agreeable, likable, endearing, lovely, lovable, adorable, appealing, attractive, good-looking, prepossessing; More
   • (of a person or manner) polite, friendly, and likable.
     "he was a charming, affectionate colleague"

Dictionary.com - The world’s favorite online dictionary!
MOO

Bravo! And he sure seemed like he thought he was being "winsome' or 'charming" in the three (3) interviews, especially about his T-shirt.

 

[molly1255]

Do you see a significant difference in CW's words and responses between the one unedited one you viewed and the other two? I found personally his answers to be largely the same, often repeating the same phrases to questions.

I agree. His answers were largely the same and the potential scenarios he used to try to explain the "disappearance" of SW and the girls were largely the same. He did this knowing they had been murdered and knowing exactly where their bodies were hidden.

 

[Thepoet]

I agree. His answers were largely the same and the potential scenarios he used to try to explain the "disappearance" of SW and the girls were largely the same. He did this knowing they had been murdered and knowing exactly where their bodies were hidden.

Yes. And knowing that he had called and texted SW's phone after he had killed her and buried her body! He was deliberately, and cold bloodedly, setting the stage for her and the girls "disappearance" for the scenarios!

 

[molly1255]

Ok so she would as well. Would she be able to do that?

I respectfully disagree. SW's name was not on the mortgage and she absolutely would not be responsible for paying any part of the mortgage. If no one paid the mortgage, the house would go into foreclosure and only CW would have a negative credit consequence.

SW's name is on the deed, and that entitles her to her share of equity in the home, and that would likely be half of the equity in the home.

Did CW figure this out? Probably, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 182072]

JMO, but the more she lost, the more he would have had to pay. Just more and more reasons piling on as to why he killed each and every member of his family. MOO

You are absolutely right. I'm not an attorney but I understand Colorado is a particularly onerous state when it comes to spousal support and probably child support as well.

Divorce is emotionally and financially devastating. So many couples already live paycheck to paycheck and if they divorce, they suddenly have the burden of two households and the expenses that go along with that. With the new tax law making alimony nondeductible for divorces after 2018, the payer will have a higher tax burden as well. Then you add attorney fees, more childcare expenses, etc. - all of that on the same income or less than before.

It might not just have been financial either. Maybe CW was sick of married life with kids and didn't want to be the jerk who left his pregnant wife and little girls. Even if he divorced, the only way to stop being a father was to kill his babies. Obviously, he was both arrogant and stupid in thinking anyone would buy his story and that he wouldn't be the prime suspect in their disappearances. MOO

 

[1&2&3]

CW seemed to be such a good liar, looking one straight in the eye, I would say he has been a liar for years. Perhaps a spontaneous liar (can’t think of the name!).

Remember when he met Shanann, she was in a dark place and he could be the savior with patience and guidance to help her. IMO, he could also manipulate and tell her what he wanted to - truth, lies on who he was or what he was doing.

My opinion is he has always played her. She finally woke up as she grew up, came into herself as a mother, made friends, started her business, and realized she was a real person who was loved, valued, and successful for who she was and her illnesses didn’t define her.

This was the worst thing that could happen in the marriage! It scared CW to death! SW was now a real person. She was out and about and would see how other wives and husbands interacted. She would eventually wise up to how different her marriage was. Little by little, SW would figure out the lies she had been fed all her married life.

My opinion only.

 

[molly1255]

Actually I believe he was legally responsible for the entire mortgage. Her name was just on the deed not the loan I think. Correct me if I'm wrong. If she wasn't on the loan, she was not legally responsible for that mortgage.

You are 100% correct. If SW had been a bitter woman, she could have simply refused to sign any paperwork to sell the house, until after the divorce, because she was on the deed. CW would have had to make all the payments until the decree and if he didn't, the house would have gone into foreclosure, and only his credit would have been impacted by this.

SW would have been entitled to equity in the house.

IMO, CW didn't earn enough to pay the mortgage on his own, plus temporary support for the girls. SW could have nailed him badly from a financial standpoint. JMO.

 

[margarita25]

We have talked many times about the possible element of “narcissism” as related to CW. The more I think about this and look at other cases the more I think this to be a valid psychological aspect. Here’s why:

I’ve been doing a lot of researching and thinking lately about the mass shooting at the Jewish Synagogue on Saturday. It seems that these mass shooters who “annihilate” people blame someone else for their problems (in that case, “the Jews”). And upon research last night, experts have reiterated a clear “narcissistic” element.

Well considering that CW has (allegedly) “annihilated” his entire family, I’m not sure that this is much different in the sense that he likely, as mentioned several times here, blamed them for whatever craziness was going though his mind.

I realize that there are clear differences between the crimes of a family annhilation vs a mass shooting, but I think perhaps extreme narcissism could be a uniting factor psychologically, moo.

 

[PommyMommy]

Charming used together with 'winsome' and 'psychopathic' has a different connotation though.

Here are two more experts who use different words. Maybe this will help?

The associate professor of criminology and criminal justice at MSU Denver and former prosecutor has worked with thousands of victims of family violence.
"I think he had a vision of another life with this other woman — carefree, no responsibilities," she said. "Two children and another on the way, that's a big responsibility."

The fact that Chris Watts went in front of a Denver7 camera to plead for his family's lives after he knew they were dead indicates, to Mowder, that he planned to blame an intruder, play victim and eventually start a new life.

He eventually told police a new story, and Mowder said it is no surprise based on her experience with perpetrators of domestic violence that he is blaming his wife.
Criminologist on Chris Watts case: 'There's some secrets there'

Speaking Friday on CBSN, former FBI senior profiler and forensic behavioral expert Mary Ellen O'Toole said Watts' interview speaks to what he thinks is his ability to be persuasive.

"When somebody kills their own family and then they go on TV to say 'But I didn't have anything to do with it,' that ability to be so very sure of your own interpersonal skills that you can attempt to fool a national and international audience is very unusual," said O'Toole. "That's a lot of arrogance and confidence that you could pull this off, and that's not typical."
Former FBI profiler: Suspect's televised plea for slain family's return shows "arrogance"

 

[kkdj]

I think CW has more than likely been a liar all of his life and gotten away with it most of the time. I also think he would have cheated on anybody he was with as he did what he wanted to do and it stroked his ego. I suspect he's a sociopath, at least. jmo