Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #43

[molly1255]

CW seemed to be such a good liar, looking one straight in the eye, I would say he has been a liar for years. Perhaps a spontaneous liar (can’t think of the name!).

Remember when he met Shanann, she was in a dark place and he could be the savior with patience and guidance to help her. IMO, he could also manipulate and tell her what he wanted to - truth, lies on who he was or what he was doing.

My opinion is he has always played her. She finally woke up as she grew up, came into herself as a mother, made friends, started her business, and realized she was a real person who was loved, valued, and successful for who she was and her illnesses didn’t define her.

This was the worst thing that could happen in the marriage! It scared CW to death! SW was now a real person. She was out and about and would see how other wives and husbands interacted. She would eventually wise up to how different her marriage was. Little by little, SW would figure out the lies she had been fed all her married life.

My opinion only.

I do think CW played SW from the start. I also think she did figure this out before he murdered her. I wouldn't be surprised if she kicked him to the curb and he murdered her and her little girls to get even with her. JMO.

 

[molly1255]

Kim Gorgens, a clinical professor in the graduate school of professional psychology at the University of Denver, has conducted extensive research on criminal behavior, and she believes Christopher Watts could be a psychopath.

"It's not a personality characteristic that you can pick out of a lineup. It's not like someone wears a sign that says you can't trust. In fact, it's the opposite of that," said Gorgens.

"You can't tell for sure, but I will be less than surprised to see the picture of a true psychopath emerge. Someone who is really winsome, charming and psychopathic. It's not unusual for them to evade detection," said Gorgens.
Professor: Christopher Watts could be a psychopath

This professor said "could", but it is interesting to note that she didn't say "he could be on the autism spectrum" or "he could suffer from PTSD or C PTSD". She said he "could be a psychopath".

I think she nailed it. JMO.

 

[Seattle1]

So, we have a hearing(s) next week and then the scheduling hearing on Nov. 19th. November should be very interesting and hopefully we'll get some clarification. And CW has been in jail 84 days? Is he still on suicide watch? Twelve (12) weeks of bland jail food, rudimentary exercise, if any, no patches or supplements, and no aerobic activity. I would think it would take real discipline to maintain his fitness.

Could the autopsy be released BEFORE the Nov. 19th hearing?

Yes - per recent news post, the Judge suggested the court calendar was open early November!

 

[Best of What's Around]

Here are two more experts who use different words. Maybe this will help?

The associate professor of criminology and criminal justice at MSU Denver and former prosecutor has worked with thousands of victims of family violence.
"I think he had a vision of another life with this other woman — carefree, no responsibilities," she said. "Two children and another on the way, that's a big responsibility."

The fact that Chris Watts went in front of a Denver7 camera to plead for his family's lives after he knew they were dead indicates, to Mowder, that he planned to blame an intruder, play victim and eventually start a new life.

He eventually told police a new story, and Mowder said it is no surprise based on her experience with perpetrators of domestic violence that he is blaming his wife.
Criminologist on Chris Watts case: 'There's some secrets there'

Speaking Friday on CBSN, former FBI senior profiler and forensic behavioral expert Mary Ellen O'Toole said Watts' interview speaks to what he thinks is his ability to be persuasive.

"When somebody kills their own family and then they go on TV to say 'But I didn't have anything to do with it,' that ability to be so very sure of your own interpersonal skills that you can attempt to fool a national and international audience is very unusual," said O'Toole. "That's a lot of arrogance and confidence that you could pull this off, and that's not typical."
Former FBI profiler: Suspect's televised plea for slain family's return shows "arrogance"

As always, thank you PommyMommy for your research skills and help! I am curious, did you come across any experts saying that CW showed great remorse, significant grief, devastation, or even shock post murders? I am wondering how an otherwise innocent man (according to CW) who just witnessed the "smiles that light up {his} life" extinguished could carry on so quickly to dump them in crude oil and try to cover the events. I was surprised personally at how he kept being focused on how his family vanishing affected him and not them. "It's vanished."

 

[Thepoet]

Yes - per recent news post, the Judge suggested the court calendar was open early November!

Thank you.

 

[Thepoet]

Gotta go, for now. Welcome back everyone, I'm glad you're all here! And again, thanks so much, to Tricia, et al, for reopening the thread. YAY! My morning (and noon, afternoon, etc.) coffee is so much better now!

 

[molly1255]

Kim Gorgens, a clinical professor in the graduate school of professional psychology at the University of Denver, has conducted extensive research on criminal behavior, and she believes Christopher Watts could be a psychopath.

"It's not a personality characteristic that you can pick out of a lineup. It's not like someone wears a sign that says you can't trust. In fact, it's the opposite of that," said Gorgens.

"You can't tell for sure, but I will be less than surprised to see the picture of a true psychopath emerge. Someone who is really winsome, charming and psychopathic. It's not unusual for them to evade detection," said Gorgens.
Professor: Christopher Watts could be a psychopath

Gorgen's last statement in this article is also quite interesting and that is with respect to CW claiming he killed his wife after he saw her strangling one of their daughters:

"It's reactionary behavior not consistent with a psychopath. However, only time will tell whether his story is what really happened."

Studies by researchers have shown that psychopaths have a deficiency when it comes to recognizing a threat, not only a threat to themselves, but a threat to others as well, and this deficiency explains why psychopaths fail to react.

 

[NuttMegg]

Maybe the stomach contents of the girls will show TOD was that night. Perhaps that’s why defense wants them sealed. He seemed hands on as a dad. I don’t understand how she would stay in that house and he have to carry more weight . Colorado divorce laws do not guarantee that.

JMO, but a guy can't be "hands' on" as a Dad if he is trading in the time he should be spending on the very little kids for time with an AP. And, of course, he wasn't hands on with his own wife while carrying on with an AP. Or 2 or 3, depending on how many there were.

 

[molly1255]

JMO, but a guy can't be "hands' on" as a Dad if he is trading in the time he should be spending on the very little kids for time with an AP. And, of course, he wasn't hands on with his own wife while carrying on with an AP. Or 2 or 3, depending on how many there were.

Not just time, but energy, too. That might explain why he looked like a concrete statue in a couple of the videos I saw that were made by SW and he was supposed to be "playing" with the girls. He just sat there, not moving at all. It was very weird.

JMO.

 

[NuttMegg]

Not just time, but energy, too. That might explain why he looked like a concrete statue in a couple of the videos I saw that were made by SW and he was supposed to be "playing" with the girls. He just sat there, not moving at all. It was very weird.
JMO.

Yeah, the actual "time" is not the key concept, he could have been spending that "time" in a part time job to help out his wife.

The "energy" includes the anticipation, the afterglow, being absent from the family in thought while ostensibly being present. The plotting, planning and monitoring the dating apps for new opportunities. And keeping his private life all in line so he wouldn't be outed. IMO

 

[MyBelle]

I can only speak for myself, if I was a jurior, it would be hard for me to over look the fact that he didn't seek help for his children. Knowing he had killed his wife and unborn child, I couldn't take his word for anything. I would need proof. I'm not sure DNA will be that proof. Too many things in that house had all their DNA on them. Sometimes actions speak louder than words. JMO

I was referring to DNA obtained at autopsy, not from the rest of the house. Whether the autopsy records are sealed or not, I think there will be no problem finding jurors who are willing to consider forensic evidence objectively. JMO

 

[gitana1]

No, we don't have evidence that he lied for at least months.
All we know is that the affair was 'active'. We have no idea when the affair started.

Months, weeks, hours. I don't think it makes much of a difference. He lied about an affair. To police. The day after he lost his whole family.

So he's a liar. And he's a liar who thought that it was important to lie about an affair after his wife supposedly murdered their kids and he murdered her.

He also lied repeatedly, to NUA, to the police, to friends, to SW's family and his own family, for two days, and to the public in three, separate interviews, calmly denying knowledge of the whereabouts or condition of his dead family, and lying about when and where he had last seen them.

There's no debate that this guy is a creepy liar who lies easily and calmly at times when he should be more worried about never being able to see his kids again.

 

[Pi Thoughts]

The Petition to

Change Colorado’s Unborn Murder Law & Charge Chris Watts With 4th Count of Murder

has now reached over 98,000 signatures

Sign the Petition

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I think this profiler is wrong about CW.

I think so as well.
jmo

 

[gitana1]

I would hardly call CW 'winsome' or 'charming', those sound like outgoing traits to me, IMO

That's kind of how the family friends described him. Super helpful. Looked you right in the eye. Super nice guy.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

The arrest affidavit included what they knew at that point (8/16), or at least as much as was necessary to include in the affidavit. We don't know what investigators have uncovered in the last two months. MOO

We don’t know what they have so far, but I sure would like to know.

 

[gitana1]

You are absolutely right. I'm not an attorney but I understand Colorado is a particularly onerous state when it comes to spousal support and probably child support as well.

Divorce is emotionally and financially devastating. So many couples already live paycheck to paycheck and if they divorce, they suddenly have the burden of two households and the expenses that go along with that. With the new tax law making alimony nondeductible for divorces after 2018, the payer will have a higher tax burden as well. Then you add attorney fees, more childcare expenses, etc. - all of that on the same income or less than before.

It might not just have been financial either. Maybe CW was sick of married life with kids and didn't want to be the jerk who left his pregnant wife and little girls. Even if he divorced, the only way to stop being a father was to kill his babies. Obviously, he was both arrogant and stupid in thinking anyone would buy his story and that he wouldn't be the prime suspect in their disappearances. MOO

DaisyK! How do you know that about the spousal support tax deduction!

It's wreaking havoc in some of my cases. Everything we used to try to determine long-term spousal support has now changed. So confusing.

 

[MyBelle]

I think so as well.
jmo

former FBI profilers are paid pundits and were wrong about the Tibbetts case. I take what they--and the armchair psychologists say--with a grain of salt. CW "could be" a psychopath. Yeah, we all "could be." JMO

 

[nwmouse]

JMO, but a guy can't be "hands' on" as a Dad if he is trading in the time he should be spending on the very little kids for time with an AP. And, of course, he wasn't hands on with his own wife while carrying on with an AP. Or 2 or 3, depending on how many there were.

Sadly the only things he was "hands on" with was strangling/killing his family.

 

[Mazey11]

During our "hiatus" I did a little searching on sealed pleadings with HIPAA information, and it made me wonder why they wouldn't just redact the HIPAA information. It seems that's the way it's handled many times.
Sorry, I can't find the source for this now, so just my opinion and wondering if any of the legal minds think it might turn out that way?