Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[katydid23]

Lemak's friends and husband sure didn't agree with the defense's theory that she was showing signs she was capable of harming her children. They all made that abundantly clear in their testimony at trial. The jury concluded Lemak was a bitter, controlling, manipulative woman who wanted to punish the children's father for dating again. I believe it very possible the same motive happened in this case. JMO

Lemak is no different than FA killers Chris Coleman or Chris Vaughn just to name two. Coleman murdered his wife because his wealthy employer didn't believe in divorce and he didn't want to get fired. Vaughn murdered his family because he wanted to move to Canada and live off the grid. None of these killers meet the definition of insane. They knew it was wrong.

Lemak had medication for depression as do millions of Americans who don't decide to kill their children. Her friends testified at trial:

Lemak's close friend Tammy Bottigliero said she noticed how distant Marilyn was and sought to cheer her up by offering a quick trip to a restaurant or shopping. Lemak declined.

"Then I said, `Do you want me to take the kids?'" Bottigliero told a DuPage County jury Thursday. This time, Lemak's answer was emphatic and curt. "She said, `No!' ... It was the last time I saw her."

That brief exchange--just hours before Lemak drugged and suffocated her three children--haunts Bottigliero. "It's something that I still remember to this day," she testified on the third day of Lemak's trial.


The recollections and regrets of Bottigliero and others in Lemak's inner circle filled the courtroom.

Testimony from women who Lemak saw daily suggested there were clues her life was coming undone before the killings, but nothing to indicate she would take the lives of Emily and her brothers, Nicholas, 7, and Thomas, 3, on March 4, 1999.

Lemak's friends saw anguish before killings

But these two cases are not very similar.


But there was also testimony that Lemak appeared depressed and upset in the days before her children's deaths.

Lemark told her friend she was WORRIED SHE MIGHT HARM HER CHILDREN.


Another friend called by prosecutors, Karen Marposon, said Lemak told her that night that she had once revealed to her husband that "she was afraid she might hurt the kids."


Lemark was seeking help for stress from raising the children:

The usually polished woman--a sort of queen bee among her friends--admitted to them for the first time that she'd sought psychiatric help for the stress of raising the children.

Also:

On March 3, 1999 -- the day before Lemak is accused of drugging and suffocating her children in their Naperville home -- Hahn-Baiyor said she ran into her as the two volunteered at their children's school. Lemak was in tears.

"She was visibly upset, crying (and) shaking," Hahn-Baiyor said. "I asked her what was wrong, and she said she saw Dave's girlfriend's car parked outside his rental house."


Lemak's friends saw anguish before killings - Chicago Tribune

www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-2001-11-30-0111300205-story.html

 

[Mellowmelly]

I'm sorry for your sad memory. What you say is true. I lost my 37 year old daughter unexpectedly and I know full well how family reacts. We all act differently, but there is also a common thread of shock, loss, and disbelief. He had none of that, more like relief, joy, duper's delight, and smug satisfaction. I watched one of the videos again last night and I never saw a grieving husband and father, not really a husband or father of any type.

I’m sorry for your loss, it’s any normal parents worst nightmare come true I’m sure. No parent should have to lose their child.

 

[MyBelle]

Who said it was the state who asked for the hearing to be moved up?

That would be an absolute loss for the DA.

It's a fantastical conjecture, IMO and nothing suggests that would happen.

The Prosecutor filed for the status hearing.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...strict/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/18cr2003.pdf

 

[tmar]

THE PHONE (SW's)

Thanks again to everyone who responded to my earlier post about the phone. You gave me a lot to think about. I've formed an opinion I believe covers all the facts,

CW had SW's phone after he murdered her. He would want to know who called and he would want to search the phone, when he had time, to see who she had talked to (an atty maybe?), texts, etc. It would also tell him who was calling or texting SW that day, looking for her. NUA then shows up at the house forcing CW to race home where NUA and LE are waiting. Perhaps if CW hadn't been in a panic to get home, he would have dumped the phone on the way home. Or maybe he really wanted to search the phone before he dumped or destroyed it and figured all he had to do was deal with NUA. On his way home LE called for the code and he knows they're there. SW's phone wasn't just for personal, but also for business and it was always with her. Leaving it behind messes up his "she left with the girls and disappeared" story and maybe that's why he later hinted at a kidnapping scenario. So, he's at the house, with the phone, NUA and LE. At the first opportunity he hides the phone, by shoving it behind cushions or pillows on the sofa. Or maybe he just tossed it there. He knew he had to get rid of it and he probably knew someone was going to suggest calling or pinging the phone, since SW didn't or couldn't answer. It had to be done quickly, before more LE showed up (which they did) and he was more closely watched. I have to believe the first officers at the house were more interested in, and distracted by, looking for evidence of a crime, than watching CW.

Your comments made me think about how important SW's phone would have been to CW as a source of information (calls, texts, downloads, etc.) and as a forewarning (who's calling SW, how many times, etc.) which leads me to believe that one of the first things he did after the murder, was to acquire the phone. It was a little over three (3) hours from the time that SW entered the house until CW backed the truck into the garage. If he spent time searching the phone, that would explain why other things weren't done, like the dealing with the bedding, suitcase, etc. He could easily spend hours searching her phone, and not just for info about her, but to see what she may have communicated about him, and if she tried to track him on SM, etc. I have no doubt he's paranoid. It would explain how the time was used after the murder(s), if they took place early.

If this scenario is true, then his fingerprints would be all over her phone obscuring and covering other prints. I would think this could be evidence. I would also think that LE could tell if anything was removed/erased (by him) from her phone and might be restored.

If CW had SW's phone with him, after he murdered her, to check the calls, SW's phone pings will show the movement of the phone.
We will become aware of this, if this is the case.

I recently read a Crime Fiction Novel, where technology was available, to indicate, the last fingerprints: ie fingerprints on top of previous finger prints.
This would be great, if it occurs in 'real life' with advances in technology.
Did CW use the SW's phone after SW?

 

[riolove77]

Death kills humans, what happens afterward is a different issue. A dead body concealed is a dead body concealed no matter where it might be hidden afterwards. I'm not on some kind of religious high-horse about "desecration" because the bodies were already dead and the charges against CW reflect that fact.

I seriously doubt a jury will conclude guilt on first degree murder based only on the fact he concealed the bodies. The prosecutor must prove the charge of murder and concealment of the bodies is secondary and a lessor offense. JMO

The concealment of the bodies in and of themselves is circumstantial evidence of murder one. jmo

 

[MyBelle]

Hi All—I haven’t been on in a while due to the fact that there hasn’t been anything new in this case, but peeked in with the news of the status hearing being moved up to Tuesday.

While I have very little legal literacy, this development seems important to me. When reading about a status conference in a criminal court case, it says: “A status hearing in a criminal case is a pre-trial conference made in an effort to resolve the case without it having to go to trial. It generally takes place with the judge, the prosecution, the defendant and the defendant's lawyer in attendance.”

I’ve included my reference below.

IF that’s the case here, IMO, there is absolutely *no way* the DA would agree to resolve this case (AKA make a plea deal) at this point in time if CW was guilty of murdering his children.

IF this is a plea, I think it has to mean that the autopsy (which prosecution wants sealed) and most likely the investigation (texts, interviews, forensics) contain damaging information that the DA & SW’s family don’t want out, and CW’s version of events is in fact what happened. I can’t see any other reason they’d offer a plea deal at this point, if that’s what this is.

MOO

What Is a Status Hearing in a Criminal Case?

I agree, it is important.

I think this status hearing request is a result of whatever the defense submitted last week under seal.

 

[riolove77]

I can't imagine which type of person the defense will look for on the jury. If only they could sort for those who write murderers in jail with kind words and marriage proposals.

I certainly hope they take a long time to select the jury. It is SO important. They can, to a degree, use their peremptory and for-cause challenges to make sure they get anyone questionable off the panel...then again, so can the defense.

 

[MyBelle]

How would a plea deal prevent the release of the autopsy report and any “disparaging” info about SW getting out? This sounds too rich even for a Lifetime movie IMO.

A plea deal would result in the release of the autopsy report but what it would prevent is SW's character being dragged through the mud at trial and her medical records becoming public. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

A plea deal would result in the release of the autopsy report but what it would prevent is SW's character being dragged through the mud at trial and her medical records becoming public. JMO

What medical records are you talking about? And what relevance do they have?

 

[MyBelle]

What medical records are you talking about?

Medical records covered by HIPAA.

 

[katydid23]

CW panicked. He knew no one would believe SW killed the children. And you certainly don't even know how they died because the autopsy reports have not been released. Have a nice night. JMO

Why would he think no one would believe him?

As you have pointed out, many women have killed their children.

And he had all of the evidence, right there, for the forensics team to collect. He could have called immediately and had medical help in case the babies could be revived.

He could have them look at the crime scene, and collect touch DNA from the baby's tiny necks.

There is no reason to believe he wouldn't be given the chance to prove his story.

 

[Seattle1]

A plea deal would result in the release of the autopsy report but what it would prevent is SW's character being dragged through the mud at trial and her medical records becoming public. JMO

Why exactly do you expect SW's character will be dragged through the mud at trial? What evidence have I missed? I'm asking as one that's only seen a loving wife, mother, and friend.

 

[MassGuy]

Why exactly do you expect SW's character will be dragged through the mud at trial? What evidence have I missed? I'm asking as one that's only seen a loving wife, mother, and friend.

Exactly. Are we missing something here?

 

[DexterMorgan]

If CW killed the girls anytime earlier in the evening Sunday (say around 5pm-9pm), would a coroner be able to tell that from the autopsies, or their hairs, even if they were submerged in oil? And I would think it was much easier to determine time of death of Shanann, yes?

This is why he dumped them in the tank. So the blow flies couldn't hatch nor the death insects could come around and leave a better time line. Plus the possible liver temp change from the kids vs her resting place. And Cw may have fooled the coroner about the girls t.o.d.

Maybe?

 

[Johnny1181]

A plea deal would result in the release of the autopsy report but what it would prevent is SW's character being dragged through the mud at trial and her medical records becoming public. JMO

What mud is there to drag her through? She was a loving, hard working wife and mother supporting her family. Why is there a fear of her medical records becoming public?

 

[Johnny1181]

Medical records covered by HIPAA.

IMO those are most likely his medical records.

 

[Mellowmelly]

.Even if SW had bad character and something in her medical records that would somehow paint her in a bad light , which I’ve seen no evidence of, would that make her guilty of what CW has accused her of ? Thousands of people have bad traits but don’t go around murdering their kids.

 

[katydid23]

Death kills humans, what happens afterward is a different issue. A dead body concealed is a dead body concealed no matter where it might be hidden afterwards. I'm not on some kind of religious high-horse about "desecration" because the bodies were already dead and the charges against CW reflect that fact.

I seriously doubt a jury will conclude guilt on first degree murder based only on the fact he concealed the bodies. The prosecutor must prove the charge of murder and concealment of the bodies is secondary and a lessor offense. JMO

So if someone has to make plans for the disposal of their child or grandchild, it doesn't matter how it is done?

It's just 'whatever' ---that baby is dead. Who cares what happens to their carcass?

 

[MassGuy]

So if someone has to make plans for the disposal of their child or grandchild, it doesn't matter how it is done?

It's just 'whatever' ---that baby is dead. Who cares what happens to their carcass?

Like flushing a goldfish apparently.

I beg to differ.

 

[Mellowmelly]

So if someone has to make plans for the disposal of their child or grandchild, it doesn't matter how it is done?

It's just 'whatever' ---that baby is dead. Who cares what happens to their carcass?

Even some animals have burial rituals.