Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[bonjoviblonde]

WHEN could he have tried CPR? If we take his version of events, he couldn't have tried to save them. He said he was in a rage, and ran and strangled his wife.

How long does it take to strangle a grown woman by hand? >>>>5 to 7 minutes, if not more.......

So he didn't even begin to try CPR until it was too late. [ IF he even bothered to try]

And when did he perform CPR anyway? Before he killed SW? If so, what did he do, just push her off and she just sat there? Because we didn't see any defense wounds on CW. If he pushed her off and tried to revive CC, seems to me SW would still be raging and probably hitting and clawing at him. I would also imagine some screaming and yelling would be going on. Or did he wait and spend the 5-7 minutes choking SW and then perform CPR when it would obviously be too late? We know it's actually neither because he didn't try to save anyone. He killed them.

 

[katydid23]

We don't know what CW did or did not do. I think he may have tried CPR and had no luck and that's why he didn't call 911. Even if EMS responded, that long without oxygenated blood to the brain would certainly mean brain death. CW knew police would not believe his story and he was right. JMO

Does he have the medical expertise to know if his children were beyond help or not? We heard a member here speak of a child that was under the water, turned blue than black, and the EMTS saved the chid's life.

Children are revived routinely after being unresponsive, even clinically 'dead.'

And NO, he wasn't right. If he had called them immediately, for help with the children, and to investigate the crime scene, and to be interviewed, they probably would have believed him if the forensics matched his story.

The main reason they don't believe him is the stupid, erratic way he responded to the deaths. NOTHING that he did fits with the story of an innocent father losing his kids.

 

[katydid23]

Respectfully, I didn't say he assumed it was too late to save the kids, I said I think he did CPR and it was ineffective. I'll agree to disagree and move on.

WHEN did he do CPR? Before he strangled his wife and unborn son? Or after?

 

[katydid23]

I agree. It's hardly likely he will testify.

But then the problem will be there is no evidence of SW's involvement.

Of course there will be plenty of mudslinging - but none of that will be direct evidence tying her to the act of murder.

We had a lot of discussion about that in earlier threads. We were all asking the attorneys, about how the defense could try and get that story in, without putting him on the stand.

IIRC, the consensus seemed to be that they would have to rely upon the interrogation tapes. The state will surely want to introduce some of them. Which opens the door for the defense to play the portions they want to be seen.

But it won't be as 'convincing' as it could be if he took the stand.

 

[Charlot123]

There was a little more to it than just that email.

She had been working as a nurse, and she married a Doctor, from the clinic where she worked. She stayed home with the kids, but eventually went back to work, part time. Her husband began an affair with a coworker/friend of hers. When he moved out, he rented a home literally around the corner from his old home, and on the way to the kid's school.

So she lost all of her 'safe' places. She didn't feel comfortable going back to the job because of the mistress. She lost her life and her friendships there.

And when she drove the kids to school, she'd see her husband's and his girlfriends cars in the driveway of his new place. That was emotional for her too.

So this went on for many weeks. This emotional turmoil and anxiety.


This woman did not find out about the mistress, then go immediately kill the children the first night. She had an emotional breakdown, went for treatment, was taking meds, but couldn't cope and had a horrible sick and twisted reaction in the end.

Thank you for this synopsis of the case.

Two issues here that are very different from SW's situation. First, it appears from your story that Marylin Lemak had little social support. SW was super social. She had a lot. It matters.

Second, it is my understanding that Ms. Lemak was suicidal and planned to kill herself, too, together with the kids. She said to 911 dispatcher that the attempt "botched".

Ms. Lemak probably felt that neither she, nor the kids, were needed to anyone. It is a very dark, suicidal thinking, but depression has own voice. ("My husband didn't want us anymore", said Marilyn Lemak to 911 dispatcher).

She had prior episodes of depression and tried to harm herself, ending in a hospital.

We have no evidence to corroborate that SW was either depressed or suicidal, or that she had such a dramatic prior history.

 

[Charlot123]

Also things would not have changed immediately

Usually he would be kicked out of the house but still have to support his family. It's not like she has to sell the house and get new healthcare on an urgent timeline.

They have months if not years to resolve these things. You don't get divorced that quickly

In other words, it would probably not be amicable.

But then, the length and expenses involved might have been a certain trigger for CW?

 

[MassGuy]

In other words, it would probably not be amicable.

But then, the length and expenses involved might have been a certain trigger for CW?

I think so. I think his logic, if we can call it that, was that he wanted a new life, and he wanted it right away.

He picked one that would give him an immediate “fresh start.”

How ironic.

 

[MyBelle]

Thank you for this synopsis of the case.

Two issues here that are very different from SW's situation. First, it appears from your story that Marylin Lemak had little social support. SW was super social. She had a lot. It matters.

Second, it is my understanding that Ms. Lemak was suicidal and planned to kill herself, too, together with the kids. She said to 911 dispatcher that the attempt "botched".

Ms. Lemak probably felt that neither she, nor the kids, were needed to anyone. It is a very dark, suicidal thinking, but depression has own voice. ("My husband didn't want us anymore", said Marilyn Lemak to 911 dispatcher).

She had prior episodes of depression and tried to harm herself, ending in a hospital.

We have no evidence to corroborate that SW was either depressed or suicidal, or that she had such a dramatic prior history.

We have no evidence SW was depressed or suicidal but that certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist and won't be presented at trial.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Marilyn Lemak sought psychiatric help prior to her murder of her children or it would have been presented at trial and it was not. The Jury concluded she premeditated murder of her children out of revenge and spite. Trying to blame David or his new girlfriend was ridiculous and the jury in that case did not believe it. The defense was outraged the AP testified but guess what? All appeals have been denied. Marilyn is exactly where she belongs.

The Chicago media certainly didn't blame either David or his new girlfriend for the actions of a vile, hateful, revengeful mother. Marilyn owns the murders, not David. JMO

 

[ColoradoLove]

Let me just point out that Shanann had been through divorce before, where she says she lost a lot and it put her into a dark place. But she obviously overcame it, found the good in that time of her life, and grew stronger because of it. She was an independent woman, with a great support network, a brand new baby she was obviously excited to meet, and a bright future. The thought of leaving CW, although difficult and sad, wouldn't have driven her to murder in a split second. She would have been just fine.

IMO, it was CW who latched onto her and enjoyed the social connections, fun life, praise for being such a great dad and orderly household that she brought into his life, until he met another Sun to orbit around and realized he didn't need or want her anymore, or the girls. They had become a burden, draining his bank account and energy. He just switched off, turning his attention, hopes and dreams to the new and exciting person, which is why he could very matter of factly shove his girls' little bodies into 8" openings until they splashed into crude oil. Twice. And then drop/roll his dead wife and unborn child into a hole and shovel dirt over them.

He couldn't even find the care within himself to take a sick day, make a grief stricken trip to a scenic spot in the mountains or the top of a hill with a gorgeous view to lovingly and regretfully bury his family wrapped in their favorite blankets with their lovies. Nope, still gotta get to work today so I'll just dump them at CERVI 319. Or, you know, call 911 as soon as he realized what was going on, knock out "psycho" Shanann, desperately try to revive at least one of the girls... That probably would have made more sense, if he actually cared.

 

[Charlot123]

I think so. I think his logic, if we can call it that, was that he wanted a new life, and he wanted it right away.

He picked one that would give him an immediate “fresh start.”

How ironic.

Very

 

[MyBelle]

And when did he perform CPR anyway? Before he killed SW? If so, what did he do, just push her off and she just sat there? Because we didn't see any defense wounds on CW. If he pushed her off and tried to revive CC, seems to me SW would still be raging and probably hitting and clawing at him. I would also imagine some screaming and yelling would be going on. Or did he wait and spend the 5-7 minutes choking SW and then perform CPR when it would obviously be too late? We know it's actually neither because he didn't try to save anyone. He killed them.

BBM. Really? We know for a fact that CW killed them how? We know he didn't attempt to do CPR on the children how? You are giving your opinion and claiming it is fact.

CW was clothed in interviews. There is no way to know if he had defense wounds or not but I think it a tad ridiculous to assume he didn't attempt to revive his children based on an assumption rather than actual fact. JMO

Put yourself in her shoes without assuming that she was some kind of a nut.

What goes through a person's head?

She is pregnant and has lupus. She needs health insurance and CW is the provider. So she needs to find another 9-5 job, ASAP. What about her business?

The house. Probably, sell it. The market is good.

Could she afford a divorce lawyer?

Who could help her out?

Someone needed to babysit the kids.

I think she'd think exactly like all of us would.

Really? Because I think it is obvious that not all of us agree CW is the murderer of the children. Some of us want to see actual evidence from the autopsy reports. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

If the defence had some dirt they would have been running it in the media already

no, they would not because the law prevents the defense from commenting on a case. JMO

 

[Charlot123]

We have no evidence SW was depressed or suicidal but that certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist and won't be presented at trial.

There is no evidence whatsoever that Marilyn Lemak sought psychiatric help prior to her murder of her children or it would have been presented at trial and it was not. The Jury concluded she premeditated murder of her children out of revenge and spite. Trying to blame David or his new girlfriend was ridiculous and the jury in that case did not believe it. The defense was outraged the AP testified but guess what? All appeals have been denied. Marilyn is exactly where she belongs.

The Chicago media certainly didn't blame either David or his new girlfriend for the actions of a vile, hateful, revengeful mother. Marilyn owns the murders, not David. JMO

Respectfully, I don't blame anything on Lemak's husband. I merely say that Ms. Lemak had an episode of depression in 1995 and was taking antidepressants at least one month before the killings. She tried to OD on the same drugs she used for the kids, and in the morning when it did not work, slashed her wrists. All of it is very different from SW's behavior. According to all witnesses, SW was highly functional and had immense support system.

As to your phrase, "We have no evidence SW was depressed or suicidal but that certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist and won't be presented at trial", sorry, what poster just wrote, in another post "You are giving your opinion and claiming it is fact"?

In general, I think it is wiser to abstain from diagnosing a person who can never speak for herself, on zero evidence. If we hear something during the trial, we shall discuss it, of course.

 

[MassGuy]

no, they would not because the law prevents the defense from commenting on a case. JMO

The law doesn’t prohibit them from requesting a bond hearing, and if exculpatory evidence existed, there would have been one.

 

[MyBelle]

Let me just point out that Shanann had been through divorce before, where she says she lost a lot and it put her into a dark place. But she obviously overcame it, found the good in that time of her life, and grew stronger because of it. She was an independent woman, with a great support network, a brand new baby she was obviously excited to meet, and a bright future. The thought of leaving CW, although difficult and sad, wouldn't have driven her to murder in a split second. She would have been just fine.

IMO, it was CW who latched onto her and enjoyed the social connections, fun life, praise for being such a great dad and orderly household that she brought into his life, until he met another Sun to orbit around and realized he didn't need or want her anymore, or the girls. They had become a burden, draining his bank account and energy. He just switched off, turning his attention, hopes and dreams to the new and exciting person, which is why he could very matter of factly shove his girls' little bodies into 8" openings until they splashed into crude oil. Twice. And then drop/roll his dead wife and unborn child into a hole and shovel dirt over them.

He couldn't even find the care within himself to take a sick day, make a grief stricken trip to a scenic spot in the mountains or the top of a hill with a gorgeous view to lovingly and regretfully bury his family wrapped in their favorite blankets with their lovies. Nope, still gotta get to work today so I'll just dump them at CERVI 319. Or, you know, call 911 as soon as he realized what was going on, knock out "psycho" Shanann, desperately try to revive at least one of the girls... That probably would have made more sense, if he actually cared.

SW "latched onto" CW? Seriously? I think she had a choice in the matter and doubt a jury will buy such an absurd theory.
JMO

 

[MassGuy]

SW "latched onto" CW? Seriously? I think she had a choice in the matter and doubt a jury will buy such an absurd theory.
JMO

No more absurd than people accusing her of murder.

 

[MyBelle]

Respectfully, I don't blame anything on Lemak's husband. I merely say that Ms. Lemak had an episode of depression in 1995 and was taking antidepressants at least one month before the killings. She tried to OD on the same drugs she used for the kids, and in the morning when it did not work, slashed her wrists. All of it is very different from SW's behavior. According to all witnesses, SW was highly functional and had immense support system.

As to your phrase, "We have no evidence SW was depressed or suicidal but that certainly doesn't mean it doesn't exist and won't be presented at trial", sorry, what poster just wrote, in another post "You are giving your opinion and claiming it is fact"?

In general, I think it is wiser to abstain from diagnosing a person who can never speak for herself, on zero evidence. If we hear something during the trial, we shall discuss it, of course.

Uh, Lemak gave her children her drugs. She slashed her wrists and called 911 the day after she murdered her children. I have no idea what you mean by SW being "highly functional." Depressed people function just fine, as Marilyn Lemak proved.

I'm allowed to express my opinion on this forum. Everyone here knows opinions are not facts and are allowed. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

No more absurd than people accusing her of murder.

Opinions are opinions. There is no requirement we must agree with an opinion.

 

[Colorado303]

Do you think maybe she became suicidal that night if she discovered CW was somehow hurting the children?

I think suicidal is the last emotion she would have finding out CW was hurting her girls. She would be on the phone to police or out the door with kids in tow.

 

[MyBelle]

The law doesn’t prohibit them from requesting a bond hearing, and if exculpatory evidence existed, there would have been one.

And there still might be one. There also has not been a plea entered or a preliminary hearing. I think the defense has been waiting for discovery. The defense filed a motion and asked that it be sealed just last week. The judge accepted it. JMO