Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[Tippy Lynn]

Never gotten up? Well, if she did what he accused her of, she would have gotten up. What circumstances do you think made an emotional discussion possible at 4;00 A.M.? What circumstances that trumped lack of sleep, illness and/or discomfort, him going to work in a couple of hours, and school starting?

Never got up, as in he strangled her when she was in bed. The emotional conversation would have been in regards to an affair and or separation/divorce.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

It doesn't make sense that she wouldn't have gone to bed. It was 2 am. Her return flight was delayed by hours. She had been ill for 2 days. She was pregnant. She had just spent days working hard at a convention, which is very draining. How would she not be totally exhausted?

I don’t think it’s unreasonable. During certain events in my life I’ve been unable to sleep and stayed up even though I was beyond exhausted.

 

[MassGuy]

I don’t think it’s unreasonable. During certain events in my life I’ve been unable to sleep and stayed up even though I was beyond exhausted.

Maybe not unreasonable, but certainly unlikely, as opposed to the opposite.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Maybe not unreasonable, but certainly unlikely, as opposed to the opposite.

I disagree.

 

[MassGuy]

I disagree.

You think it’s more likely that a pregnant woman who had been traveling, and delayed at that, stayed up as opposed to going to bed?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

You think it’s more likely that a pregnant woman who had been traveling, and delayed at that, stayed up as opposed to going to bed?

I think both are equally as likely.

 

[RachB65]

I think it all depends on the person and the circumstances. There have been trying and stressful times in my life and sometimes i cant sleep during, sometimes i can. She was pregnant, the flight delay, all the travelling the past week and the time of nite/morning plus she wasnt feeling well. She prob also knew there were stressful and sad times to come regarding a separation. IMHO, her whole self would have been exhausted and she most likely would have collapsed into sleep. If he let her. IMOO

 

[Thepoet]

6

@PrimeSuspect, edited 431am to be accurate

I believe school wasnt starting until the following Monday[/QUOTE]
I read it was the next day and the next week. Not sure which.

 

[Thepoet]

Premeditation;

CW may have planned ahead to hide the bodies on Anadarko property, because if anyone checked GPS it would only show him going to work areas where he belonged, not any unusual places. He may also have believed that;

1. By putting the bodies in the tank(s), if the bodies were ever found, they’d be unidentifiable.
   
   
2. One body in each tank, wouldn.t cause sensors to be triggered,
   
   
3. There’d be no smell, DNA, etc.
   

The grave for SW may have been the result of the delayed flight rushing his plans, and it’s shallowness was because of his not having the time/tools to dig in the hard earth. He may have planned to put her in another tank somewhere.

The crime scene is too neat for the crime not to have been planned. If CW killed all 3, and I believe he did, he did so with little noise and no signs (that we know of) of violence, blood, or conflict and that would be extremely difficult in the heat of the moment. The chaos that did exist was the result of the delayed flight and NUA’s persistence. ,

The time that the crime took place was a perfect window of opportunity. For instance the crime took place before Bella started school, which would have presented problems at a later date.

If the flight had been on time things would probably have been different. If NUA didn’t persist, the crime may have been successful.

I believe CW lacks real emotion and is cool under pressure (ex. after all the turmoil on Monday, he was well rested, well groomed, and jaunty the next day, he made eye contact during interviews), but he isn’t good at changing plans on the fly.

When he had to improvise, he made mistakes. And that is another reason I believe it was premeditated!

 

[MassGuy]

Premeditation;

CW may have planned ahead to hide the bodies on Anadarko property, because if anyone checked GPS it would only show him going to work areas where he belonged, not any unusual places. He may also have believed that;

1. By putting the bodies in the tank(s), if the bodies were ever found, they’d be unidentifiable.
   
   
2. One body in each tank, wouldn.t cause sensors to be triggered,
   
   
3. There’d be no smell, DNA, etc.

The grave for SW may have been the result of the delayed flight rushing his plans, and it’s shallowness was because of his not having the time/tools to dig in the hard earth. He may have planned to put her in another tank somewhere.

The crime scene is too neat for the crime not to have been planned. If CW killed all 3, and I believe he did, he did so with little noise and no signs (that we know of) of violence, blood, or conflict and that would be extremely difficult in the heat of the moment. The chaos that did exist was the result of the delayed flight and NUA’s persistence. ,

The time that the crime took place was a perfect window of opportunity. For instance the crime took place before Bella started school, which would have presented problems at a later date.

If the flight had been on time things would probably have been different. If NUA didn’t persist, the crime may have been successful.

I believe CW lacks real emotion and is cool under pressure (ex. after all the turmoil on Monday, he was well rested, well groomed, and jaunty the next day, he made eye contact during interviews), but he isn’t good at changing plans on the fly.

When he had to improvise, he made mistakes. And that is another reason I believe it was premeditated!

I absolutely agree with your thinking here.

 

[Thepoet]

You think it’s more likely that a pregnant woman who had been traveling, and delayed at that, stayed up as opposed to going to bed?

A pregnant woman who was already tired and not feeling well and then had to face the stress and aggravation of a 3 hour delay. Sleep would have been the only thing on her mind.

 

[nwmouse]

If the COD of all three bodies is strangulation, it blows my mind that any father/husband could wrap his hands around his wife/child's neck and look into their eyes as it takes them 3 to 4 minutes to die agonizingly. AND DO IT THREE TIMES! They would be looking directly into his face and eyes whilst he was squeezing and breaking. That takes a cold-blooded psychopath.

Its so personal, violent and painful.

I think his pathetic explanation is going to be eviscerated in the trial.
MOO

 

[MassGuy]

If the COD of all three bodies is strangulation, it blows my mind that any father/husband could wrap his hands around his wife/child's neck and look into their eyes as it takes them 3 to 4 minutes to die agonizingly. AND DO IT THREE TIMES! They would be looking directly into his face and eyes whilst he was squeezing and breaking. That takes a cold-blooded psychopath.

Its so personal, violent and painful.

I think his pathetic explanation is going to be eviscerated in the trial.
MOO

Agreed. It’s so sick. It explains how he was able to dispose of their bodies in the way that he did, though.

After staring into the eyes of your wife and kids, and strangling the life out of them, it would be no problem for him to dump their bodies in oil and shallow grave, respectively.

 

[MKZoo]

Agreed. It’s so sick. It explains how he was able to dispose of their bodies in the way that he did, though.

After staring into the eyes of your wife and kids, and strangling the life out of them, it would be no problem for him to dump their bodies in oil and shallow grave, respectively.

There has been much speculation/observation that he seemed to become more detached from them toward the end. Imo, by the night of the murder, they were no longer his wife and children. They were no longer even real people. They were just problems in need of a solution. That's the only way a person could do any of this and not totally fall apart. Jmo.

 

[idfinch]

There has been much speculation/observation that he seemed to become more detached from them toward the end. Imo, by the night of the murder, they were no longer his wife and children. They were no longer even real people. They were just problems in need of a solution. That's the only way a person could do any of this and not totally fall apart. Jmo.

Agreed. He had to have been completely detached and in autopilot mode, as if it were a job to be done. 3 times. 3. Especially the children, one after another. It's just sickening.

 

[nwmouse]

There has been much speculation/observation that he seemed to become more detached from them toward the end. Imo, by the night of the murder, they were no longer his wife and children. They were no longer even real people. They were just problems in need of a solution. That's the only way a person could do any of this and not totally fall apart. Jmo.

Yep, CW had already checked out of the family/marriage/relationships mentally.

All he had to do was follow through with the physical part, which he seemed to do very successfully, although his poor planning and sloppiness led to his arrest.

Unfortunately he was not caught before he committed his horrendous crimes.
Its too late for the family who have lost their daughter and grandkids, and CW's too.
The fallout of his murders must be immense for the Watt's family -- how do you explain your son is a monster who murdered his pregnant wife and two toddler girls?
Edited to add a MOO.

 

[tmar]

In the previous thread, some members alluded to feeling intimidated to put forward their theories as they differed from most peoples opinion. May I, in the interests of a healthy, respectful discussion propose what, I think IMO that hypothetical senario entails:
CW makes the statement, as per affidavit, that he killed SW after she killed B&CCW.
I'm interested in the possible timeline, please highlight where my assumptions are incorrect.

630pm B&CCW put to bed (based on SM)
630-9pm (TBC) CW makes a BBQ on the patio, eats etc (as per witness)
10pm CW relaxing in the house expecting SW to return, makes a tweet at 10pm (see CW Twitter feed)
11pm SW ETA, CW possibly told sometime previous to this that flight was delayed by up to 3 hours (speculation)
11pm-12pm (estimate) CW goes to bed knowing SW will be late (speculation)
148am SW returns home, leaves her shoes, case & purse downstairs and heads upstairs (as per NUA witness report & LE observations)
150am SW joins CW in bed. CW stated in porch interview she "barely got into bed" and made no inference she slept on the loft sofa. (Porch interview)
4am "Emotional conversation" ensues, as per CW affidavit, this was previously declared to be 5am in the porch interviews IIRC
4am-430am (approx) CW informs SW about the affair and his wish to seperate, possibly told her of other extra-marital affairs as well (All speculation)
430am (approx) CW doesn't wish to pursue the discussion, goes downstairs for a drink. (as per affidavit) CW leaves SW angry with rage/on medications/pregnant/emotional etc upstairs alone with the girls. (speculation)
431am (approx) CW has a drink, returned to his bedroom to speak with Shanann again. While in the bedroom, via baby monitor located on Shanann's night stand, he observed Bella 'sprawled' out on her bed and blue and Shanann actively strangling Celeste.
https://mediaassets.thedenverchanne...06.1715148282.1541154469-987309381.1540869920. He waits for a period (I speculate it's a few seconds) for the monitor display to switch to CCWs room and sees SW strangling CCW (Affidavit)
431am (approx) CW rushes to CCW's room, upon seeing SW strangling CCW, proceeds to strangle SW (as per affidavit). This would have certainly happened without much noise (not reported by neighbours) or much of a struggle (not any significant marks on CW on Tuesday, IMO)
440am (approx) CW in shock having killed SW & NLW, tries to recucitate CCW. After unsuccessfully doing so, CW checks on BW, confirms she is deceased. (Speculation)
445am (approx) CW considers calling 911 but thinks if he gets LE involved that he will get blamed for all 3(4) deaths so decides to dispose of the bodies and pretend that SW disappeared with the girls, incase anybody asks where they are. (Speculation)
445-515am CW begins to dispose of evidence, removing bed clothes, carrying/dragging corpses downstairs. Placing bedsheets & pillowcases in kitchen trash, removing main bed sheets etc
515am CW loads bodies in rear of truck and drives to work at 530am to dispose of bodies. (Affidavit and witness statements/CCTV)
Later that morning, CW makes a call to SW to ask how she is etc (Porch interview) without response.

I think we all agree on the rest............. Is that about right?

I'm open to ALL hypothesis/conjectures/opinions until we get further statements/evidence but can assure @TipplyLyn and any others who are apprehensive about defending CWs story that I am only interested in discussing the pros and cons of any hypothesis, but for that we need concrete suggestions. All I have seen so far is speculation about SWs personality based on SM videos. I am interested in exactly HOW members think events unfolded in this scenario so that I can come to MY OWN conclusions about how reasonable and plausible those ideas are. Please feel free to correct my timeline.

ETA: Thank you @PrimeSuspect, edited 431am to be accurate

Mark,
as stated previously, you had been working hard, and again now.
Thank you, this time line is so good, having everything together.

 

[becrietz]

Hello everyone. I want to start by saying that I believe CW killed them all. With that being said I can understand how some people believe SW killed the girls. Women have killed their children especially when their husband is leaving them for another women. IMO Shanann knew that her marriage was troubled and coming to an end. I have read many people debated the time of 4am as when they had the "emotional conversation" based on the interviews he gave. Well it has been determined that he lied about pretty much everything in the interviews. I am trying to remember if he stated a specific time for the conversation between the 2 of them in his confession? I don't think he did so it is more likely that they had this conversation immediately upon her arriving home if a conversation took place at all. IMO while I do believe a mother could kill her children when her husband tells her he is leaving his actions after the killings are unexplainable to me. IMO the only way a person can dispose of their children's bodies the way he did is if he felt responsible for their death. I have considered that some accident happened that led to one or both of the girls deaths and knowing he was responsible killed Shanann and disposed of them. That seems a more likely situation than SW killing the girls and him killing SW in the exact same manner and then disposing of all their bodies. As I stated earlier the only scenario that fits IMO is that CW killed them all but I do like to keep an open mind and consider all other possibilities.

 

[Mark Morris]

Thanks tmar, just checking back in here to see what the opinions are. I must admit, I'm dissappointed that there are so few observations from the defendants side, I appreciate those that have been made. I have also enjoyed reading the comments from a pro-prosecution perspective and found them to be fair and objective. But tmar I wouldn't say that 20 mins spent writing a post is anywhere near "hard work" compared to reading 44 1/2 threads or 60,000 or so comments!!

 

[Thepoet]

Hello everyone. I want to start by saying that I believe CW killed them all. With that being said I can understand how some people believe SW killed the girls. Women have killed their children especially when their husband is leaving them for another women. IMO Shanann knew that her marriage was troubled and coming to an end. I have read many people debated the time of 4am as when they had the "emotional conversation" based on the interviews he gave. Well it has been determined that he lied about pretty much everything in the interviews. I am trying to remember if he stated a specific time for the conversation between the 2 of them in his confession? I don't think he did so it is more likely that they had this conversation immediately upon her arriving home if a conversation took place at all. IMO while I do believe a mother could kill her children when her husband tells her he is leaving his actions after the killings are unexplainable to me. IMO the only way a person can dispose of their children's bodies the way he did is if he felt responsible for their death. I have considered that some accident happened that led to one or both of the girls deaths and knowing he was responsible killed Shanann and disposed of them. That seems a more likely situation than SW killing the girls and him killing SW in the exact same manner and then disposing of all their bodies. As I stated earlier the only scenario that fits IMO is that CW killed them all but I do like to keep an open mind and consider all other possibilities.

WELCOME becrietz! GLAD YOU'RE HERE
Good points.