Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[PommyMommy]

Hello everyone. I want to start by saying that I believe CW killed them all. With that being said I can understand how some people believe SW killed the girls. Women have killed their children especially when their husband is leaving them for another women. IMO Shanann knew that her marriage was troubled and coming to an end. I have read many people debated the time of 4am as when they had the "emotional conversation" based on the interviews he gave. Well it has been determined that he lied about pretty much everything in the interviews. I am trying to remember if he stated a specific time for the conversation between the 2 of them in his confession? I don't think he did so it is more likely that they had this conversation immediately upon her arriving home if a conversation took place at all. IMO while I do believe a mother could kill her children when her husband tells her he is leaving his actions after the killings are unexplainable to me. IMO the only way a person can dispose of their children's bodies the way he did is if he felt responsible for their death. I have considered that some accident happened that led to one or both of the girls deaths and knowing he was responsible killed Shanann and disposed of them. That seems a more likely situation than SW killing the girls and him killing SW in the exact same manner and then disposing of all their bodies. As I stated earlier the only scenario that fits IMO is that CW killed them all but I do like to keep an open mind and consider all other possibilities.

Welcome to Websleuths, becrietz. Great first post!

 

[tmar]

Premeditation;

CW may have planned ahead to hide the bodies on Anadarko property, because if anyone checked GPS it would only show him going to work areas where he belonged, not any unusual places. He may also have believed that;

1. By putting the bodies in the tank(s), if the bodies were ever found, they’d be unidentifiable.
   
   
2. One body in each tank, wouldn.t cause sensors to be triggered,
   
   
3. There’d be no smell, DNA, etc.

The grave for SW may have been the result of the delayed flight rushing his plans, and it’s shallowness was because of his not having the time/tools to dig in the hard earth. He may have planned to put her in another tank somewhere.

The crime scene is too neat for the crime not to have been planned. If CW killed all 3, and I believe he did, he did so with little noise and no signs (that we know of) of violence, blood, or conflict and that would be extremely difficult in the heat of the moment. The chaos that did exist was the result of the delayed flight and NUA’s persistence. ,

The time that the crime took place was a perfect window of opportunity. For instance the crime took place before Bella started school, which would have presented problems at a later date.

If the flight had been on time things would probably have been different. If NUA didn’t persist, the crime may have been successful.

I believe CW lacks real emotion and is cool under pressure (ex. after all the turmoil on Monday, he was well rested, well groomed, and jaunty the next day, he made eye contact during interviews), but he isn’t good at changing plans on the fly.

When he had to improvise, he made mistakes. And that is another reason I believe it was premeditated!

Thepoet.
I think your premeditation idea is spot on.
CW's premeditation to being a 'free man', without responsibilities failed.

NUA also stopped the 'premeditated' cover up.
Now CW will never be the free man he had thought he would achieve.
Not as smart as he thought!!!!!!

 

[LittleFleurDeLys]

. IMO the only way a person can dispose of their children's bodies the way he did is if he felt responsible for their death.

Yes and you need to be somehow emotional "detached" from your own flesh and blood to dispose them like he did - just like trash. I bet most of the people wouldn't even consider to "bury" a pet like this. I personally dont belive that an "accident" occured. I would rather believe it when just one of the children were killed. But in this night an entire family died (except for daddy). But like you I would say that this was even more likely than this "Shannan killed one child after another and than I went into rage and killed her". And after that he punished his babies twice instead of giving them at least a proper burial after they were killed by their mother, he stuffed their bodies in large big and scary oil tanks. I know we all do not have any proof that he killed them all but you need just to think about this a little bit to know that this sounds like utterly nonsense. Just put yourself in his position. Especially if you have children yourself. What he did just does not feel "appropriate" for a loving father.

 

[tmar]

Hello everyone. I want to start by saying that I believe CW killed them all. With that being said I can understand how some people believe SW killed the girls. Women have killed their children especially when their husband is leaving them for another women. IMO Shanann knew that her marriage was troubled and coming to an end. I have read many people debated the time of 4am as when they had the "emotional conversation" based on the interviews he gave. Well it has been determined that he lied about pretty much everything in the interviews. I am trying to remember if he stated a specific time for the conversation between the 2 of them in his confession? I don't think he did so it is more likely that they had this conversation immediately upon her arriving home if a conversation took place at all. IMO while I do believe a mother could kill her children when her husband tells her he is leaving his actions after the killings are unexplainable to me. IMO the only way a person can dispose of their children's bodies the way he did is if he felt responsible for their death. I have considered that some accident happened that led to one or both of the girls deaths and knowing he was responsible killed Shanann and disposed of them. That seems a more likely situation than SW killing the girls and him killing SW in the exact same manner and then disposing of all their bodies. As I stated earlier the only scenario that fits IMO is that CW killed them all but I do like to keep an open mind and consider all other possibilities.

Welcome becrietz
Your first post.
Hope we hear more from you.
I agree, the disposal of the kids bodies, to me, indicates he was responsible for their murders.
MOO.

 

[Thepoet]

ThePoet.
I think your premeditation idea is spot on.
CW's premeditation to being a 'free man', without responsibilities failed.

NUA also stopped the 'premeditated' cover up.
Now CW will never be the free man he had thought he would achieve.
Not as smart as he thought!!!!!!

Agreed. I too believe all his freedom is gone. It will be interesting to note his physical condition, i.e., being in shape, by the time the trial is over. No patches, no supplements, no jogging, just jail food and a lot of sitting around. I don't believe he has enough discipline or fortitude to take care of himself now.

 

[tmar]

Thanks tmar, just checking back in here to see what the opinions are. I must admit, I'm dissappointed that there are so few observations from the defendants side, I appreciate those that have been made. I have also enjoyed reading the comments from a pro-prosecution perspective and found them to be fair and objective. But tmar I wouldn't say that 20 mins spent writing a post is anywhere near "hard work" compared to reading 44 1/2 threads or 60,000 or so comments!!

You are correct.
Many have followed these threads, for hours.
We all need to be complemented.
Some, due to stress have had 'time outs' but still carry on here, when permitted.

We are trying to help these poor souls, that have been murdered, and solving the case.
We will all succeed with our efforts.
The Prosecution will succeed, and we will be overwhelmed.
Karma has started already.
Sometimes it takes time.
MOO.

 

[esayer]

You are correct.
Many have followed these threads, for hours.
We all need to be complemented.
Some, due to stress have had 'time outs' but still carry on here, when permitted.

We are trying to help these poor souls, that have been murdered, and solving the case.
We will all succeed with our efforts.
The Prosecution will succeed, and we will be overwhelmed.
Karma has started already.
Sometimes it takes time.
MOO.

Is it just me or is something up with this thread? Last reply an hour ago?

 

[PommyMommy]

Frederick homicide suspect Chris Watts to appear Tuesday in Weld District Court
The Weld District Attorney's Office announced late Friday that Frederick triple murder suspect Christopher Watts will appear Tuesday in Weld District Court for a status conference.

The hearing is scheduled for 30 minutes beginning at 2 p.m. in Division 17. The district attorney's office didn't release any other information.

Watts wasn't scheduled to return to court until 10:30 a.m. Nov. 19 for a status conference in Division 16. That court appearance remained on the docket as of Friday afternoon.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...strict/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/18cr2003.pdf

 

[riolove77]

I don't believe there was any emotional conversation. His premise for giving that story was to underline why she may have taken off with their children. We now know she never took off with the children, and he obviously already knew this. Therefore, the reasoning behind the emotional conversation story was fabricated as well, in my opinion.

 

[nwmouse]

I don't believe there was any emotional conversation. His premise for giving that story was to underline why she may have taken off with their children. We now know she never took off with the children, and he obviously already knew this. Therefore, the reasoning behind the emotional conversation story was fabricated as well, in my opinion.

ITA. IMHO, his pathetic and sloppy excuse was that SW dumped him and ran away with the toddlers.
Even someone with an IQ of room temperature could come up with a better excuse. He's a brute and a lout, imo, but he's also stupid and a poor strategist.

 

[MyBelle]

I don't know if he woke her up, she woke him up, if she went to bed or if she went to bed and never got up. However, considering the circumstances I think it's possible they had an emotional conversation at 4am.
jmo

I think their "emotional conversation" began before SW ever left for AZ. JMO

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I think their "emotional conversation" began before SW ever left for AZ. JMO

I do too

 

[gitana1]

what I cant reconcile pertaining to CW's version of events is why shanann would kill the kids..... because he is having an affair and wants to separate????

its so illogical the concept by itself imo without all the lies and incriminating evidence to boot.

two things I want to highlight.
likely has before but never gets old for me.

shanann had been away from those kids for a few days, her love and desire to be with them would have been immense and as a mother I will not accept that she didn't feel this way.
(ive seen shananns love for those girls with my own eyes.
people pick at the social media overload but I think its great she has documented so much of her life for whatever reasons and we all get to feel like we know her and her little family as she knew and felt it.)
no mother would have been away from her kids and kill them for reasons that have nothing to do with them.

if shanann was upset and in a fit of rage by her cheating husbands revelations she would have killed him.....

pure and simple


its black and white....no grey area.

jmo

It has happened. One case was that mother who picked up her kids for her first day of unsupervised custodial time with them, saying she had a surprise for them. She took them to an abandoned house and slit their throats. One died and one survived.

But here's the thing- universally in these cases where women have done this after the husband tries to separate or files for divorce, there is IMMEDIATE evidence (it comes out within days) that the mother in question had serious psych issues and/or evidence of lack of stability and rage problems in the weeks or months leading up to the murders.

And I don't mean, "Oh she said she had fibromyalgia which isn't a real illness. So she must be capable of this." Or "She talked in a promotional video about being in a dark place years ago and feeling suicidal after being diagnosed with a chronic and difficult disease".

Nope. I'm talking about recent and ongoing calls to 911 over and over due to attacks and threats to do harm, involuntary and/or voluntary hospitalizations due to mental health breaks, intensive domestic violence, hardcore drug/alcohol issues, psychosis, or threats to take the children away if the husband leaves. Some were in the middle of custody battles, had lost custody or were losing ground in on-going cases and one had just been served that day with papers. That kind of thing.

In the Debra Jeter case, for example, she had attempted suicide in front of her daughters just 15 days or so before, leading to her hospitalization and a temporary restraining order.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...ce87193d-8ae9-5eb8-8ed0-587a6cc9032e.amp.html

Christy Sheets who killed her two daughters in front of her screaming husband had made several suicide attempts in the three years leading up to the murders and was in current treatment for her mental health.

Julie Schenecker had serious mental health issues and was drinking and acting erratically prior to the murders of her two kids. She was seeing a psychiatrist and her husband felt she wasn't safe around the kids.

Isabel Martinez had been depressed and acting bizarrely with odd outbursts that alarmed neighbors in the weeks leading up to her murder of her husband and for of her kids and attack of a remaining child.

Jessica Edens who killed her ex's girlfriend, her two kids and herself, had been harassing her ex and the girlfriend and there has been several welfare check calls and other calls to police by the ex in the days leading up the murders. He felt the kids were in danger.

Studies are clear that mothers who kill their kids typically have on going mental health issues- frequent depression, psychosis, prior mental health treatment, and suicidal thoughts - while fathers who kill their kids may not:

Child murder by mothers: patterns and prevention

 

[MassGuy]

I don't believe there was any emotional conversation. His premise for giving that story was to underline why she may have taken off with their children. We now know she never took off with the children, and he obviously already knew this. Therefore, the reasoning behind the emotional conversation story was fabricated as well, in my opinion.

Theoretically it could have occurred. But you’re right, it was a self serving story that suited a particular purpose.

There is every reason to believe that it is a lie, especially in light of all of his other lies.

 

[gitana1]

Hi everyone!!! I was caught up in the Closs and Guse cases and by the time I realized this thread was open again, I was already 30 pages behind and I wanted to get caught up before I commented. I am so glad we have this thread open again so we can continue to discuss. This case is going to take years and I am happy we will all be able to keep this going...I hope we don't end up causing it to shut down again!

I want to make one point: it is offensive and borderline ridiculous for anyone to assume that the prosecutors don't seem confident or don't have a solid case. They are lawyers. They HAVE to keep everything close to the vest. They are not going to show their hand. As long as they follow Brady rules and do what they're supposed to do, I don't care if they don't make one dang thing public until trial!!! I have no doubt they know what they're doing and that they have more than enough to secure the conviction most people want for this excuse for a father and husband.

Anyway, carry on! Happy Friday

I see nothing to suggest they aren't supremely confident. Not one thing.

The charges themselves certainly show that.

 

[Only4Justice]

Hi my WS Friends! So with the hiatus the mods gave us, I have been catching up on the fast moving threads. This bears repeating. Don’t know If the poster is still around....


RavenCC2020Well-Known Member
↑
I don’t believe we have any evidence that CW killed the children. We also don’t have any evidence that SW killed them. But I believe the jury will be presented with a lot to bring reasonable doubt into question. IMO
I'm a fair minded person open to seeing things from both sides. No matter how horrific a crime is it is the duty of a jury to presume the innocence of the defendant therefore up to the prosecutor to convict by the evidence they present.

Unless the defense has some texts, letters, something tangible that prior to these murders SW herself (and can be authenticated) had threatened the lives of her children for ANY reason imo it is just his word against a woman who can no longer speak for herself. If he in fact has someone who can get on the stand under oath and swear they too heard SW make these threats against the kids that would possibly open the door to reasonable doubt. Surely if any such person exists they would certainly come forward by now to make this claim. If a person making such a claim is an immediate family member I think most people would consider the relationship factor and the position CW is now in and more then likely decide it is a family's desire to save their loved one. Also, if she did indeed make such a claim I would expect a report was made to child services as further proof this transpired. I would assume a family member would be MORE inclined to make such a report given the children are their flesh and blood and were be worried about their safety.

The other factors in this case that would not lead me to a reasonable doubt verdict is CW's actions in his confession.

**** Claiming he saw SW strangling her children and his first reaction to strangle HER. Does not even make the slightest lick of sense. I don't think anyone would buy this. A normal person would pull, shove, or lift SW away from the child she was allegedly strangling and immediately tend to the kids. Attempt CPR being the most logical step for a person even one not well versed in the procedure and or call 911 IMMEDIATELY. Neither actions were taken by him.

**** Let's give CW the benefit of the doubt, he reacted to what he witnessed and strangled his wife, did not call 911 and is now standing around with 3 dead bodies. Even AFTER they are all dead wouldn't he think to call 911 to report it. You know, for the record have the appropriate people on hand to investigate the crime scene in order to confirm HIS story. The crime scene would be fresh and more importantly, any evidence on the children that could prove his innocence would still be there. He did not do this either.

**** So we are to believe that CW having done all the above who "snapped" because his wife killed their children does a 180 and then begins to feel sorry for her, wants to get the bodies out of there to "save her reputation". He is so chiverlous to then disassemble a crime scene, move the bodies bury his wife then put his beloved daughters separately in two oil filled tanks to rot? Hmmmmmmm

**** OK, he has done all the above and is the knight in white armor here so unconcerned that his actions would lead to him being arrested, let's continue to force our common sense aside and further accept his version that he is a hero hell bent on saving his wife's reputation to spare her family and friends, AND risk him going to jail for it.

**** So Nicole unknowingly happens upon the scene because she is concerned about her friend. She states that she knew something was not right due to various factors, door locked in unusual way, car being there with kids seats now in them, no communication from her and her skipping her doctor's appointment. CW's first lie on record that they were at a friend's house. Dismissing her friends concern.

**** Goes on the air pleading for the return of his family KNOWING that can't possibly happen. Second lie on record. Why continue the act if in fact he is not guilty?? Why the continued charade. Is this not the proper time under the circumstance to fess up?

**** He confesses and now claims it was in fact SW who murdered the children she loved so dearly and he just snapped and killed her with a chain of actions outlined above.

Seriously??? ANY of this would lead an average person to find reasonable doubt? I think it is unreasonable for any average person to find ANY doubt under these circumstances.

If this charade is continued and he chooses to go to trial rather then fully confess to his actions, I do not know what the defense will put on for it's case. I am open to hearing it but again, unless there is something TANGIBLE linking SW to the murder of her children, this guy is going down for ALL the murders. Just my opinion based on what is logical to me.

Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
Aug 26, 2018Report
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[Tortoise]

Yep, CW had already checked out of the family/marriage/relationships mentally.

RSBM

This is where I struggle. Was he ever checked in, so to speak? How does a person change so much, and was he always a psychopath? This case, and others like it, are so hard to understand. Rage or anything like it does not explain how he put his hands on his own trusting daughters (IMO).

 

[MyBelle]

I don’t think it’s unreasonable. During certain events in my life I’ve been unable to sleep and stayed up even though I was beyond exhausted.

ITA. Sleep disturbances are also pretty common in those with fibromyalgia. I wonder if there were any sleep medications in the household and if either parent took them or gave them to the children.

Fibromyalgia and Sleep

 

[violet101]

Frederick homicide suspect Chris Watts to appear Tuesday in Weld District Court
The Weld District Attorney's Office announced late Friday that Frederick triple murder suspect Christopher Watts will appear Tuesday in Weld District Court for a status conference.

The hearing is scheduled for 30 minutes beginning at 2 p.m. in Division 17. The district attorney's office didn't release any other information.

Watts wasn't scheduled to return to court until 10:30 a.m. Nov. 19 for a status conference in Division 16. That court appearance remained on the docket as of Friday afternoon.

https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...strict/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/18cr2003.pdf

Wonder why it moved up 2 weeks? Could it mean he might be taking a plea?

 

[Only4Justice]

ITA. Sleep disturbances are also pretty common in those with fibromyalgia. I wonder if there were any sleep medications in the household and if either parent took them or gave them to the children.

Fibromyalgia and Sleep

Are you kidding me?