Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[Best of What's Around]

Is a status hearing also where a request for bond would be made?

I think so. But fat chance for that to succeed (I hope).

 

[Tippy Lynn]

so tippylyn im just trying to get on your page, this means though that you accept shanann didn't kill the kids....
if chris kills her in bed after an emotional conversation?

this would mean either the kids were safely tucked up in bed when shanann got home and he killed them later or.....they were already dead and exhausted shanann hadn't wanted to disturb them by checking in and had just falling into bed herself.
which if that where the case she wouldn't have been encouraging an emotional chat at that hour of the day.

and...chris wouldnt have had time to follow up and kill the girls...hitch a disposal plan....implement disposal plan....get the house kinda ready and make it to work on time....all sweet...cool and nothing to see here.
he must have already killed them.

no matter which way you look at it, I think we accept chris as the instigator of the 'emotional' conversation....and that is a pretty pathetic blind siding thing to do to another person.....in their circumstance that night/morning and it should highlight to everybody who was actually over the edge.

jmo

I think it could be either side of the coin and until more is known that’s where I’m at.
jmo

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Gitana, truly excellent job presenting compelling information/facts! When fathers kill their kids, have there been similar common “signs” or behaviors that could be observed in the days/weeks before the murder?

Unfortunately we have much more info on SW’s behavior/state of mind in the weeks immediately before than we do CW’s, but surely he interacted with people other than the AP during that time. I trust it will come out eventually if he had been acting oddly.

Thank you

This has been posted before, it appears SW and NUA noticed changes in CW, and CW deactivating his facebook is rather telling too.

Nickole Atkinson, the friend of Shanann’s who called police when Shanann didn’t arrive to her doctor’s appointment, said she immediately knew something was wrong.

“I knew [Chris Watts] had something to do with it the day I was at his house with him, but I didn’t want to think that,” Nickole Atkinson told ABC News.
“Anyone in their right mind will start piecing things together and think something had happened, but you don’t want to go there. You want to believe the best in people,” she added.
Atkinson said the two had been having problems for several weeks prior to Shanann’s death. She said Shanann told her that Chris was not acting himself during a recent trip to North Carolina.
“She texted me and said she was going to need a friend now more than ever when she got back,” Atkinson said. “He wasn’t being the loving Chris that he normally was. He wasn’t touching or hugging or doing stuff like that. And he wasn’t being as attentive to the girls as he normally is.”
Atkinson said that Shanann felt “something had changed.” But it wasn’t clear what it was. The affidavit does not detail how investigators discovered that Chris had been having an affair, but says he had denied the affair in “previous interviews.”

Chris Watts murder case: Everything we know so far about the deaths of his wife, daughters

 

[k-mac]

I think it could be either side of the coin and until more is known that’s where I’m at.
jmo

ok I dont want to misinterpret your opinion so do you mean your not sure if chris killed the kids before or after he killed shanann?
because if you believe that he may have strangled her in bed that takes off the table any chance of shanann killing the kids.
because its not remotely probable she would kill the kids and then go hope into bed for a good night sleep.

according to chris he killed her while she was killing cc.
so the emotional conversation and the catching her killing cc doesn't really stack together with the in bed scenario.

although I am suspicious that he did indeed strangle her in bed. purely because she would have been relaxed and easy game.
I hope this was the case and she never knew her babies had been murdered already.

he is a coward, I don't think he would have had any kind of 'showdown ' with her.
just cold blooded and silent. no explanation to her. no opportunity for her to defend herself or question what was happening.

but I will say...the apple watches data is going to be fantastic .
if shanann never climbed those stairs......his goose is provenly cooked.

jmo

 

[Colorado303]

This has been posted before, it appears SW and NUA noticed changes in CW, and CW deactivating his facebook is rather telling too.

Nickole Atkinson, the friend of Shanann’s who called police when Shanann didn’t arrive to her doctor’s appointment, said she immediately knew something was wrong.

“I knew [Chris Watts] had something to do with it the day I was at his house with him, but I didn’t want to think that,” Nickole Atkinson told ABC News.
“Anyone in their right mind will start piecing things together and think something had happened, but you don’t want to go there. You want to believe the best in people,” she added.
Atkinson said the two had been having problems for several weeks prior to Shanann’s death. She said Shanann told her that Chris was not acting himself during a recent trip to North Carolina.
“She texted me and said she was going to need a friend now more than ever when she got back,” Atkinson said. “He wasn’t being the loving Chris that he normally was. He wasn’t touching or hugging or doing stuff like that. And he wasn’t being as attentive to the girls as he normally is.”
Atkinson said that Shanann felt “something had changed.” But it wasn’t clear what it was. The affidavit does not detail how investigators discovered that Chris had been having an affair, but says he had denied the affair in “previous interviews.”

Chris Watts murder case: Everything we know so far about the deaths of his wife, daughters

Thank you. Is it an established pattern for fathers who kill their kids to visibly withdraw emotionally in the weeks prior to the crime? Or are there other patterns—public tantrums, weight loss, change in grooming habits, etc that have consistently been observed w/males? Something akin to the mental health/behavior commonalities seen among mothers who’ve murdered their children

 

[MyBelle]

Another post that should be pinned in my opinion.

I would be interested in anyone sharing a case where a mother has killed her children and has NOT had a history of instability? I can't think of one but perhaps more experienced Sleuthers can recall one?

Marilyn Lemak. Jurors concluded revenge was her motive and they rejected her insanity defense. Her husband's new girlfriend testified at trial because she was harassed by Lemak prior to the murders. JMO

Marilyn Lemak | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers
Jurors, in fact, said the dozen competing mental-health experts largely canceled each other out. Panel members said they didn't believe the experts could divine Lemak's truthfulness any better than they could. "They didn't persuade us to either side," Collins said.

 

[MyBelle]

They didn't. They both had health issues, SW wanted to be able to keep on eye on them.

I totally agree.

 

[MyBelle]

I think it could be either side of the coin and until more is known that’s where I’m at.
jmo

Me, too. I'm focused on justice for the children. JMO

 

[wgram]

I do too

IMO this is correct. Shanann told her friend that after she got back she was going to really need her friendship. Shanann knew before she got home that something was likely to happen. Some (NOT ME) might argue that she had plans and felt she would need her after she was through. With what I am not sure..Maybe she was referring to her leaving I argue she probably suspected a problem is why she told her that. Its hard to not believe that she most likely on guard. Do any of you remember that Her friend said that Shanann went to unlock the door but she couldn't get in it was latched inside. Could CW have arranged the room leaving her shoes off at the bottom of stairs...then putting her purse on the counter? IDK Or am I getting that mixed up when she went to check on her? I thought it was both and CW had to unlock the latch so SW could get in. This way he would be confronting her immediately. All this is MMO, Sorry this is not written perfectly. Just wanted to throw what I was thinking reading these posts. IMOO

 

[MassGuy]

Me, too. I'm focused on justice for the children. JMO

Well the murderer of their mother and unborn brother is behind bars.

He’s well on his way to paying for their deaths. All of their deaths.

 

[MyBelle]

Thank you. Is it an established pattern for fathers who kill their kids to visibly withdraw emotionally in the weeks prior to the crime? Or are there other patterns—public tantrums, weight loss, change in grooming habits, etc that have consistently been observed w/males? Something akin to the mental health/behavior commonalities seen among mothers who’ve murdered their children

Was CW physically in the presence of his wife or children in the five weeks SW was in NC without him? No. When did he supposedly "visibly withdraw." According to the friend who hosted the birthday party the night before the murders:

The girls were happy. They were normal. And, so was Chris. Or so it seemed.

Family friend talks about seeing Chris Watts and his girls just days before the murders

 

[MyBelle]

Well the murderer of their mother and unborn brother is behind bars.

He’s well on his way to paying for their deaths. All of their deaths.

That's your opinion. I don't wish to rush to judgment, especially in the absence of autopsy reports. JMO

 

[PommyMommy]

IMO this is correct. Shanann told her friend that after she got back she was going to really need her friendship. Shanann knew before she got home that something was likely to happen. Some (NOT ME) might argue that she had plans and felt she would need her after she was through. With what I am not sure..Maybe she was referring to her leaving I argue she probably suspected a problem is why she told her that. Its hard to not believe that she most likely on guard. Do any of you remember that Her friend said that Shanann went to unlock the door but she couldn't get in it was latched inside. Could CW have arranged the room leaving her shoes off at the bottom of stairs...then putting her purse on the counter? IDK Or am I getting that mixed up when she went to check on her? I thought it was both and CW had to unlock the latch so SW could get in. This way he would be confronting her immediately. All this is MMO, Sorry this is not written perfectly. Just wanted to throw what I was thinking reading these posts. IMOO

NAU said "She went inside, turned around and waved at me and shut the door."
Colorado suspect says he killed wife after he saw her strangling daughter, affidavit says - CNN

The next day when NAU went to check on Shanann, the latch prevented her from opening the door more than a few inches.
https://www.courts.state.co.us/user...18CR2003/001/Warrantless Arrest Affidavit.pdf

MOO

 

[Best of What's Around]

Marilyn Lemak. Jurors concluded revenge was her motive and they rejected her insanity defense. Her husband's new girlfriend testified at trial because she was harassed by Lemak prior to the murders. JMO

Marilyn Lemak | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers
Jurors, in fact, said the dozen competing mental-health experts largely canceled each other out. Panel members said they didn't believe the experts could divine Lemak's truthfulness any better than they could. "They didn't persuade us to either side," Collins said.

Lemark showed significant signs of instability prior to the murders and her husband had already moved on and out (she did not murder her kids after a minutes long conversation regarding separating). CW had not moved out of the house. IMO SW had every reason to believe she might be able to mend things even if she felt he was her world, which i do not think he was. I think her children were her world from what she said about them. Also, Lemark drugged the children so they would not suffer. CW’s account does not allow for that. I just don’t buy what he is selling...especially when he never called 911 to save them and dumped their bodies like trash. His lack of compassion for his own parents ... by setting up a scenario where they would worry for their “missing” grandchildren for the rest of their living days...shows me he does not have the empathy of a man as innocent as he has tried to portray. And then...the lack of devastation post murders is just striking. Everything IMO lines up neatly that there was only one murderer in that house.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Marilyn Lemak. Jurors concluded revenge was her motive and they rejected her insanity defense. Her husband's new girlfriend testified at trial because she was harassed by Lemak prior to the murders. JMO

Marilyn Lemak | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers
Jurors, in fact, said the dozen competing mental-health experts largely canceled each other out. Panel members said they didn't believe the experts could divine Lemak's truthfulness any better than they could. "They didn't persuade us to either side," Collins said.

Thanks for the link. Imo though, this fits CW. He had the time to prepare, he was minding the girls over the weekend and had already experienced 5 weeks of total freedom just the week before. Lemak had the time to prepare, she drugged the children before she suffocated them. Her husband wasn't there to interfere, that's a revenge killing. SW could have waited until CW went to work and then carried out her plan, and probably kill herself and her unborn child as well. JMO

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Was CW physically in the presence of his wife or children in the five weeks SW was in NC without him? No. When did he supposedly "visibly withdraw." According to the friend who hosted the birthday party the night before the murders:

The girls were happy. They were normal. And, so was Chris. Or so it seemed.

Family friend talks about seeing Chris Watts and his girls just days before the murders

Or so it seemed.

He's as dumbfounded as the rest of the world is, and he knew the guy! We witnessed with our own eyes CW acting normal, giving interviews about his 'missing' family. Showing off his shirt etc. Are we all delusional? Nope, CW knows how to 'act' normal under every circumstance, he's special that way, imo.

 

[Best of What's Around]

Was CW physically in the presence of his wife or children in the five weeks SW was in NC without him? No. When did he supposedly "visibly withdraw." According to the friend who hosted the birthday party the night before the murders:

The girls were happy. They were normal. And, so was Chris. Or so it seemed.

Family friend talks about seeing Chris Watts and his girls just days before the murders

He was in NC with the girls for the last week of the trip, where a woman at a public play place for kids (who took pictures with the family in the background) said he was distant. Plus, there was the week or almost one week they were all back together in CO before SW left for AZ. I do not know how much interaction CE had with the children at the party, but if the murders were preplanned, he would have IMO assumably tried to appear normal so no one would suspect him when the kids “vanished.”

Edited to add: the Thayers, who spent a ton of time with him following the murders, do NOT believe his version. I think that is very telling. They were friends of the whole family.

 

[Colorado303]

Was CW physically in the presence of his wife or children in the five weeks SW was in NC without him? No. When did he supposedly "visibly withdraw." According to the friend who hosted the birthday party the night before the murders:

The girls were happy. They were normal. And, so was Chris. Or so it seemed.

Family friend talks about seeing Chris Watts and his girls just days before the murders

Please read the post I was responding to for the answer to your “when did he visibly withdraw” question.

Unfortunately, there’s precious little we know about CW’s behavior in the days/weeks immediately preceding the crime. And I don’t think his behavior at one kid’s birthday party is indicative of his overall behavior/state of mind. Almost anyone can smile their way through a couple of hours at a kids event. No-one better than CW who’s shown he can fake being normal hours after both his children have been killed.

Edited to remove duplicate text

 

[PommyMommy]

Was CW physically in the presence of his wife or children in the five weeks SW was in NC without him? No. When did he supposedly "visibly withdraw." According to the friend who hosted the birthday party the night before the murders:

The girls were happy. They were normal. And, so was Chris. Or so it seemed.

Family friend talks about seeing Chris Watts and his girls just days before the murders

These comments are typical in every family annihilation case I've read. MOO

 

[Johnny1181]

Was CW physically in the presence of his wife or children in the five weeks SW was in NC without him? No. When did he supposedly "visibly withdraw." According to the friend who hosted the birthday party the night before the murders:

The girls were happy. They were normal. And, so was Chris. Or so it seemed.

Family friend talks about seeing Chris Watts and his girls just days before the murders

Testimony from Shannan straight to her best friend who thankfully foiled FA CW's plan. OP by @PrimeSuspect Sorry, having a system issue quoting your very relevant post. Thanks for posting. All jmo

Nickole Atkinson, the friend of Shanann’s who called police when Shanann didn’t arrive to her doctor’s appointment, said she immediately knew something was wrong.

“I knew [Chris Watts] had something to do with it the day I was at his house with him, but I didn’t want to think that,” Nickole Atkinson told ABC News.
“Anyone in their right mind will start piecing things together and think something had happened, but you don’t want to go there. You want to believe the best in people,” she added.
Atkinson said the two had been having problems for several weeks prior to Shanann’s death. She said Shanann told her that Chris was not acting himself during a recent trip to North Carolina.
“She texted me and said she was going to need a friend now more than ever when she got back,” Atkinson said. “He wasn’t being the loving Chris that he normally was. He wasn’t touching or hugging or doing stuff like that. And he wasn’t being as attentive to the girls as he normally is.”

Edited to add: We do have insight to his behavior. I believe Shanann. And I believe CW to be the murderous liar he has proven himself to be.