Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[Best of What's Around]

Lemak's friends and husband sure didn't agree with your opinion that she was showing signs she was capable of harming her children. They all made that abundantly clear at trial. The jury concluded Lemak was a bitter, controlling, manipulative woman wanting to punish the children's father for dating again and I believe it very possible the same motive happened in this case.

Lemak is no different than FA killers Chris Coleman or Chris Vaughn just to name two. Coleman murdered his wife because his wealthy employer didn't believe in divorce and he didn't want to get fired. Vaughn murdered his family because he wanted to move to Canada and live off the grid. None of these killers meet the definition of insane. They knew it was wrong.

Lemak had medication for depression as do millions of Americans who don't decide to kill their children. Her friends testified at trial:

Lemak's close friend Tammy Bottigliero said she noticed how distant Marilyn was and sought to cheer her up by offering a quick trip to a restaurant or shopping. Lemak declined.

"Then I said, `Do you want me to take the kids?'" Bottigliero told a DuPage County jury Thursday. This time, Lemak's answer was emphatic and curt. "She said, `No!' ... It was the last time I saw her."

That brief exchange--just hours before Lemak drugged and suffocated her three children--haunts Bottigliero. "It's something that I still remember to this day," she testified on the third day of Lemak's trial.


The recollections and regrets of Bottigliero and others in Lemak's inner circle filled the courtroom.

Testimony from women who Lemak saw daily suggested there were clues her life was coming undone before the killings, but nothing to indicate she would take the lives of Emily and her brothers, Nicholas, 7, and Thomas, 3, on March 4, 1999.

Lemak's friends saw anguish before killings

We'll have to agree to disagree about the Lemak case. There were signs of instability, harassment, and I thought she told her husband she might hurt the children? Regardless, there were signs of instability. So you think it is possible that BOTH parents in this case lost it one night and NEITHER ONE cared about their children enough to save them? There was no 911 call. He killed SW and NW by his own admission. So you think this is the first case of essentially double family annihilation? Why did he dump his children's bodies like trash? Why wasn't he a broken man in the days following? Why do the Thayers, his friends, think he is the only killer after spending a night with him?

 

[MassGuy]

Lemak's friends and husband sure didn't agree with the defense's theory that she was showing signs she was capable of harming her children. They all made that abundantly clear in their testimony at trial. The jury concluded Lemak was a bitter, controlling, manipulative woman who wanted to punish the children's father for dating again. I believe it very possible the same motive happened in this case. JMO

Lemak is no different than FA killers Chris Coleman or Chris Vaughn just to name two. Coleman murdered his wife because his wealthy employer didn't believe in divorce and he didn't want to get fired. Vaughn murdered his family because he wanted to move to Canada and live off the grid. None of these killers meet the definition of insane. They knew it was wrong.

Lemak had medication for depression as do millions of Americans who don't decide to kill their children. Her friends testified at trial:

Lemak's close friend Tammy Bottigliero said she noticed how distant Marilyn was and sought to cheer her up by offering a quick trip to a restaurant or shopping. Lemak declined.

"Then I said, `Do you want me to take the kids?'" Bottigliero told a DuPage County jury Thursday. This time, Lemak's answer was emphatic and curt. "She said, `No!' ... It was the last time I saw her."

That brief exchange--just hours before Lemak drugged and suffocated her three children--haunts Bottigliero. "It's something that I still remember to this day," she testified on the third day of Lemak's trial.


The recollections and regrets of Bottigliero and others in Lemak's inner circle filled the courtroom.

Testimony from women who Lemak saw daily suggested there were clues her life was coming undone before the killings, but nothing to indicate she would take the lives of Emily and her brothers, Nicholas, 7, and Thomas, 3, on March 4, 1999.

Lemak's friends saw anguish before killings

I’d argue the comparison, but there’s a better way to make my point, one that I’ve made many times before.

A husband and wife both snap on the same night, seemingly out of nowhere.

They both use the same method to commit murder.

The husband does something that shows the depths of his depravity, he stuff his little girls into tanks of oil, buries his wife in a shallow grave, then goes about his workday.

He lies to his friends, the media, and law enforcement. When cornered with evidence, he tells a story so implausible, that it has no parallels in the history of American justice.

No parallels, unless he did it of course.

 

[gitana1]

I have a problem with CW hiding the phone. Not hiding it per se, but why would he hide it, and why the sofa? If he wanted to hide it, why not put it in her purse on the kitchen counter? Or put it in the suit case? Or in a drawer. But, why would he hide it? He didn't expect anyone in the house and he left it locked tighter than a drum. If he did hide it, why the sofa?

Maybe just panic?

 

[wgram]

I have a question. Does anyone know when NA received that text saying SW would need her more than ever (or whatever it said)? They had just spent the whole weekend together, did SW text her after she went in the house?

RBBM I thought that Shanann told her that as they were on the way home. This is why I think she was expecting something to happen. Maybe she was going to leave Chris and we all know many husbands snaps to this "If I can't have you, no one can"

 

[wgram]

I was thinking that he would go to trial. Now that I think about it and watching him in the court videos, I think he will plea.

 

[MassGuy]

RBBM I thought that Shanann told her that as they were on the way home. This is why I think she was expecting something to happen. Maybe she was going to leave Chris and we all know many husbands snaps to this "If I can't have you, no one can"

This in no way jibes with NUA’s statement that she began to suspect something was wrong when CW gave her that BS story about her being at a play date.

All indications are that she didn’t suspect anything nefarious has occurred, up until that point.

If that conversation occurred, it couldn’t have happened in the car that night, or between them at all.

She apparently never saw it coming.

 

[Seattle1]

He's been arrested since August. So why hasn't he pleaded 1 of the 4 yet?

Guilty, Not Guilty, No Contest, or Not Guilty due to reasonable insanity?

What are they waiting for?

You are correct -- arraignment still not scheduled!
I think they were waiting for autopsy reports to be completed - and don't know what the hold up is now....

 

[gitana1]

He's been arrested since August. So why hasn't he pleaded 1 of the 4 yet?

Guilty, Not Guilty, No Contest, or Not Guilty due to reasonable insanity?

What are they waiting for?

They're building their case. It's not unusual to postpone arraignments in serious cases from what I've seen. As long as he waives time it's not a big deal.

 

[Seattle1]

RBBM I thought that Shanann told her that as they were on the way home. This is why I think she was expecting something to happen. Maybe she was going to leave Chris and we all know many husbands snaps to this "If I can't have you, no one can"

This came up earlier this week, and I believe article reported SW texted NUA from NC, during the time CW had come to NC. SW sensed CW was off - distant.

 

[gitana1]

You are correct -- arraignment still not scheduled!
I think they were waiting for autopsy reports to be completed - and don't know what the hold up is now....

I think they will set it at the hearing.

 

[Seattle1]

They're building their case. It's not unusual to postpone arraignments in serious cases from what I've seen. As long as he waives time it's not a big deal.

Thanks @gitana1 - makes logical sense.. We know CW waived his preliminary hearing, but is it the arraignment date that starts the clock for District Attorney to decide whether or not to seek the death penalty?

 

[MassGuy]

Thanks @gitana1 - makes logical sense.. We know CW waived his preliminary hearing, but is it the arraignment date that starts the clock for District Attorney to decide whether or not to seek the death penalty?

I’m not @gitana1, but the voices in my head say that I could be, if I apply myself.

“Colorado law gives prosecutors up to 63 days after a defendant’s arraignment to determine if the death penalty will be sought.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aj...ife-daughters/mGZxeV9m9dYhI6q86ADtoJ/amp.html

 

[margarita25]

This in no way jibes with NUA’s statement that she began to suspect something was wrong when CW gave her that BS story about her being at a play date.

All indications are that she didn’t suspect anything nefarious has occurred, up until that point.

If that conversation occurred, it couldn’t have happened in the car that night, or between them at all.

She apparently never saw it coming.

(MassGuy, I’ve got to tease you for a second here ok? I remember in Mollie’s thread I invited you to SW’s thread and you were like, “well we already know who did it, not much mystery”, and here you are months later still going at it. You got sucked in admit it!)

 

[MassGuy]

(MassGuy, I’ve got to tease you for a second here ok? I remember in Mollie’s thread I invited you to SW’s thread and you were like, “well we already know who did it, not much mystery”, and here you are months later still going at it. You got sucked in admit it!)

Haaaaa! That’s right. I did blow you off, checked it out, and here I am, obsessed.

Damn you!

 

[margarita25]

Haaaaa! That’s right. I did blow you off, checked it out, and here I am, obsessed.

Damn you!

(Glad you stayed because you’ve been a fantastic contributor here!)

 

[Seattle1]

I’m not @gitana1, but the voices in my head say that I could be, if I apply myself.

“Colorado law gives prosecutors up to 63 days after a defendant’s arraignment to determine if the death penalty will be sought.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aj...ife-daughters/mGZxeV9m9dYhI6q86ADtoJ/amp.html

Thank you. And I also agree will all the points you made.

 

[Seattle1]

I’m not @gitana1, but the voices in my head say that I could be, if I apply myself.

“Colorado law gives prosecutors up to 63 days after a defendant’s arraignment to determine if the death penalty will be sought.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aj...ife-daughters/mGZxeV9m9dYhI6q86ADtoJ/amp.html

From the link -- brilliant photo of loving SW and her girls.

 

[idfinch]

I have been going over in my mind how CW managed to strangle Shanann without any marks on his arms, so I asked my husband if we could try a few experiments to see what he might do in CW's place and what my instinctive reactions would be. If experiments like this freak you out, please just scroll and roll.

I pretty much said, "What if I were in this position" and let him act without prompting, just knowing she was strangled.

First, I laid on my side on the bed as if I were sleeping and he reached behind me to put me in a choke hold, left arm around my neck and right arm locking around the left wrist. I reached up and clawed his forearms the second he hit the front of my neck. This didn't seem likely.

Then when I was still on my side, he rolled me on my back, got on my stomach and put his knees on my upper arms so I couldn't fight back. Sleeping or in bed, this seemed like a better option as far as getting quick control without scratches on him whether she was on her side or on her back.

Finally, I asked what if we were standing either arguing face to face or with my back turned, but near the bed.

He came behind me and simultaneously bumped me with his body while locking his arm(s) around my neck and fell on top of me on the bed. I was face down and instinctively tried to reach to catch myself so my face wouldn't hit the bed. But it happened SO FAST that my arms were pinned beneath my body. It was a split second and I was completely helpless. I was stunned. I would have been choked plus half-suffocated on the bed with him on my back.

I know my husband very well, we've play wrestled countless times over the years so I know what to expect. This really caught me off guard when I hadn't even considered it before. I now believe that if the autopsy reports support it, this is most likely how it happened. I have always thought he confronted her while awake instead of waiting and hoping for her to fall asleep, especially with the plane delay.

All of this is JMO and not in the least scary or creepy in our home so please understand and respect that, thanks!

 

[margarita25]

I have been going over in my mind how CW managed to strangle Shanann without any marks on his arms, so I asked my husband if we could try a few experiments to see what he might do in CW's place and what my instinctive reactions would be. If experiments like this freak you out, please just scroll and roll.

I pretty much said, "What if I were in this position" and let him act without prompting, just knowing she was strangled.

First, I laid on my side on the bed as if I were sleeping and he reached behind me to put me in a choke hold, left arm around my neck and right arm locking around the left wrist. I reached up and clawed his forearms the second he hit the front of my neck. This didn't seem likely.

Then when I was still on my side, he rolled me on my back, got on my stomach and put his knees on my upper arms so I couldn't fight back. Sleeping or in bed, this seemed like a better option as far as getting quick control without scratches on him whether she was on her side or on her back.

Finally, I asked what if we were standing either arguing face to face or with my back turned, but near the bed.

He came behind me and simultaneously bumped me with his body while locking his arm(s) around my neck and fell on top of me on the bed. I was face down and instinctively tried to reach to catch myself so my face wouldn't hit the bed. But it happened SO FAST that my arms were pinned beneath my body. It was a split second and I was completely helpless. I was stunned. I would have been choked plus half-suffocated on the bed with him on my back.

I know my husband very well, we've play wrestled countless times over the years so I know what to expect. This really caught me off guard when I hadn't even considered it before. I now believe that if the autopsy reports support it, this is most likely how it happened. I have always thought he confronted her while awake instead of waiting and hoping for her to fall asleep, especially with the plane delay.

All of this is JMO and not in the least scary or creepy in our home so please understand and respect that, thanks!

(And the sleuthing award of the day goes to idfinch!)

 

[MassGuy]

I have been going over in my mind how CW managed to strangle Shanann without any marks on his arms, so I asked my husband if we could try a few experiments to see what he might do in CW's place and what my instinctive reactions would be. If experiments like this freak you out, please just scroll and roll.

I pretty much said, "What if I were in this position" and let him act without prompting, just knowing she was strangled.

First, I laid on my side on the bed as if I were sleeping and he reached behind me to put me in a choke hold, left arm around my neck and right arm locking around the left wrist. I reached up and clawed his forearms the second he hit the front of my neck. This didn't seem likely.

Then when I was still on my side, he rolled me on my back, got on my stomach and put his knees on my upper arms so I couldn't fight back. Sleeping or in bed, this seemed like a better option as far as getting quick control without scratches on him whether she was on her side or on her back.

Finally, I asked what if we were standing either arguing face to face or with my back turned, but near the bed.

He came behind me and simultaneously bumped me with his body while locking his arm(s) around my neck and fell on top of me on the bed. I was face down and instinctively tried to reach to catch myself so my face wouldn't hit the bed. But it happened SO FAST that my arms were pinned beneath my body. It was a split second and I was completely helpless. I was stunned. I would have been choked plus half-suffocated on the bed with him on my back.

I know my husband very well, we've play wrestled countless times over the years so I know what to expect. This really caught me off guard when I hadn't even considered it before. I now believe that if the autopsy reports support it, this is most likely how it happened. I have always thought he confronted her while awake instead of waiting and hoping for her to fall asleep, especially with the plane delay.

All of this is JMO and not in the least scary or creepy in our home so please understand and respect that, thanks!

Ha! This is awesome. I love experiments!

I’m so glad you posted this, as it seems to show that there’s more than one way he could have done it, and come out unscathed.

It’s scary that it’s so easy, and more so when you factor in that she was likely caught unaware, and he was incredibly motivated to kill.