Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #44

[idfinch]

Ha! This is awesome. I love experiments!

I’m so glad you posted this, as it seems to show that there’s more than one way he could have done it, and come out unscathed.

It’s scary that it’s so easy, and more so when you factor in that she was likely caught unaware, and he was incredibly motivated to kill.

It really is scary! I was completely prepared, and my husband is stocky and muscular while I have chronic pain issues so I was on guard. And I was still surprised how fast I was incapacitated without a chance to fight back. All he had to do was get my arms pinned somehow and it was over.

I can only imagine how Shanann must have felt. It also made me feel a tiny bit of comfort, if there's any to be had, that I sincerely doubt she knew he killed the girls or that they were first. I think he needed complete control, and it would have been too much of a wild card because fear and rage give a lot of extra adrenaline strength he wouldn't have wanted her to have. Nor would he have wanted her to be on guard and ready to fight back.

All JMO again.

 

[MassGuy]

It really is scary! I was completely prepared, and my husband is stocky and muscular while I have chronic pain issues so I was on guard. And I was still surprised how fast I was incapacitated without a chance to fight back. All he had to do was get my arms pinned somehow and it was over.

I can only imagine how Shanann must have felt. It also made me feel a tiny bit of comfort, if there's any to be had, that I sincerely doubt she knew he killed the girls or that they were first. I think he needed complete control, and it would have been too much of a wild card because fear and rage give a lot of extra adrenaline strength he wouldn't have wanted her to have. Nor would he have wanted her to be on guard and ready to fight back.

All JMO again.

Scary indeed! Atleast you were a willing participant.

I completely agree, she likely was killed first, or had no idea that her kids were already dead (in the less likely event they were killed first).

He wanted to achieve a goal, and her fighting back would have been an unnecessary difficulty.

 

[Charlot123]

It bothers me as I felt doctor’s offices were reliable on not releasing information.

Just logically, in this case, be it NUA who was first concerned, or the doctor's office, does not matter. They communicated. Their concerns were justified and sadly, validated.

We don't know what transpired during the conversation. Suffice to say that the doctor's office decided that basing on their information, the risk to SW, DANGER, overrode privacy. And boy, were they right.

 

[MassGuy]

Just logically, in this case, be it NUA who was first concerned, or the doctor's office, does not matter. Their concerns were justified and sadly, validated.

We don't know what transpired during the conversation. Suffice to say that the doctor's office decided that basing on their information, the risk to SW, DANGER, overrode privacy. And boy, were they right.

Exactly. That really is the bottom line.

 

[gitana1]

Scary indeed! Atleast you were a willing participant.

I completely agree, she likely was killed first, or had no idea that her kids were already dead (in the less likely event they were killed first).

He wanted to achieve a goal, and her fighting back would have been an unnecessary difficulty.

Unless he ambushed her before she got to her kids' bedrooms he must've killed them after her. Because there is no way in hell IMO that that mama didn't come home from her trip and go look at her babies. Closely.

 

[margarita25]

Scary indeed! Atleast you were a willing participant.

I completely agree, she likely was killed first, or had no idea that her kids were already dead (in the less likely event they were killed first).

He wanted to achieve a goal, and her fighting back would have been an unnecessary difficulty.

I have no idea who was killed first, moo.

 

[MyBelle]

We'll have to agree to disagree about the Lemak case. There were signs of instability, harassment, and I thought she told her husband she might hurt the children? Regardless, there were signs of instability. So you think it is possible that BOTH parents in this case lost it one night and NEITHER ONE cared about their children enough to save them? There was no 911 call. He killed SW and NW by his own admission. So you think this is the first case of essentially double family annihilation? Why did he dump his children's bodies like trash? Why wasn't he a broken man in the days following? Why do the Thayers, his friends, think he is the only killer after spending a night with him?

Lemak told her husband she was afraid she'd hurt the children and he told her she was a good mother. That exchange wasn't immediately prior to the murders and was in the link I posted previously as well as multiple news articles. Once he started dating, Lemak made multiple disparaging comments about her husband. She also filed for divorce twice. She was a woman who was bitter her husband found another love and to the end she wanted control and to manipulate.

I believe Lemak's friends and husband had a better handle on the realities and so did the jury and judge. The friends and husband are not to blame. Lemak is a cold-blooded family annihilator. She phoned 911 the day AFTER she murdered her children to save herself. I believe that SW possibly killed her children. If that is the case, it would not be a case of family annihilation, it would be the same thing Lemak did which was to destroy her children to punish her husband. So, yes, we'll agree to disagree. JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Lemak told her husband she was afraid she'd hurt the children and he told her she was a good mother. That exchange wasn't immediately prior to the murders and was in the link I posted previously as well as multiple news articles.

I believe Lemak's friends and husband had a better handle on the realities and so did the jury and judge. The friends and husband are not to blame. Lemak is a cold-blooded family annihilator. She phoned 911 the day AFTER she murdered her children to save herself. I believe that SW possibly killed her children. If that is the case, it would not be a case of family annihilation, it would be the same thing Lemak did which was to destroy her children to punish her husband. So, yes, we'll agree to disagree. JMO

Punish a husband who cared so little about his children that he stuffed them into oil tanks?

We all saw those interviews.

That act alone, is all you need to know about Chris Watts.

 

[MyBelle]

Punish a husband who cared so little about his children that he stuffed them into oil tanks?

That act alone, is all you need to know about Chris Watts.

CW panicked. He knew no one would believe SW killed the children. And you certainly don't even know how they died because the autopsy reports have not been released. Have a nice night. JMO

 

[human]

Was her plane delayed three hours?

Whenever I have encounterd plane issues, there is no set time for when the problem will be solved. Sometimes they have not been able to get a crew because everyone is out of hours so they have to wait until he next day.

Usually they say it will be ready in.... hours. Then they change their mind.

I wonder why the delay for SW. Would she call CW right away to let him kmow there is a problem?

Would he kill the kids knowing that when SW comes home, she may have a friend come into the house as well?

Has anyone ever flown a plane when they know exactly when the delay will be over? I am wondering how soon he knew there was an issue and how soon the issue would be resolved

 

[MassGuy]

CW panicked. He knew no one would believe SW killed the children. And you certainly don't even know how they died because the autopsy reports have not been released. Have a nice night. JMO

I made no mention of how they died, just that he desecrated their bodies.

And you’re right, with rare exception, no one believes that SW killed her kids.

By any account, he had just lost the most precious thing in his life, his children, and his immediate reaction was to destroy their bodies.

No matter what one believes, he was clearly only thinking about himself.

Those kids should have been buried side by side with their mother, not stuffed into adjacent tanks filled with oil.

Those are not the actions of a man, as much as they are the actions of a monster.

 

[MassGuy]

Was her plane delayed three hours?

Whenever I have encounterd plane issues, there is no set time for when the problem will be solved. Sometimes they have not been able to get a crew because everyone is out of hours so they have to wait until he next day.

Usually they say it will be ready in.... hours. Then they change their mind.

I wonder why the delay for SW. Would she call CW right away to let him kmow there is a problem?

Would he kill the kids knowing that when SW comes home, she may have a friend come into the house as well?

Has anyone ever flown a plane when they know exactly when the delay will be over? I am wondering how soon he knew there was an issue and how soon the issue would be resolved

Planes are tracked in real time, and anyone can do this online.

All he would have had to do, was query the flight number in Google.

As soon as that plane took off, He would have had the estimated time of arrival.

Edited to add that you make a good point, she wouldn’t have known exactly when that plane would take off, while the delay was happening.

One would assume that she would have let her husband know that she was delayed though.

 

[kiwilaura]

I’d argue the comparison, but there’s a better way to make my point, one that I’ve made many times before.

A husband and wife both snap on the same night, seemingly out of nowhere.

They both use the same method to commit murder.

The husband does something that shows the depths of his depravity, he stuff his little girls into tanks of oil, buries his wife in a shallow grave, then goes about his workday.

He lies to his friends, the media, and law enforcement. When cornered with evidence, he tells a story so implausible, that it has no parallels in the history of American justice.

No parallels, unless he did it of course.

Well one parallel. Christian Longo. And we all know how THAT played out in the end....

 

[MassGuy]

Well one parallel. Christian Longo. And we all know how THAT played out in the end....

Haaa! True. No one bought that story, and it was nowhere near as ridiculous as this one.

 

[MassGuy]

I have no idea who was killed first. Moo.

I think that Shanann was killed before the kids.

It’s entirely possible that he murdered the children at some point prior to her arrival though.

He’s depraved enough to have done it either way.

 

[margarita25]

I think that Shanann was killed before the kids.

It’s entirely possible that he murdered the children at some point prior to her arrival though.

He’s depraved enough to have done it either way.

If he wanted to hurt her and shock her then he might have killed them earlier.

There are other scenarios where I could also see killing the kids first as a possibility.

As I’ve mentioned, it could even be in the order of child, mother, child for all we know.

It is really chilling to consider the different possibilities.

It will be interesting to see how the Prosecution will approach this aspect.

 

[human]

Planes are tracked in real time, and anyone can do this online.

All he would have had to do, was query the flight number in Google.

As soon as that plane took off, He would have had the estimated time of arrival.

Edited to add that you make a good point, she wouldn’t have known exactly when that plane would take off, while the delay was happening.

One would assume that she would have let her husband know that she was delayed though.

The delay is what interests me. I imagine she called and told him there was an issue.

I have never had a delay when they knew when the delay would be finished when they first announced, I have even been with a delay for ten hours before they made the announcement of the take off time,

Would he kill the children not knowing when her plane would be cleared for take off?

 

[MyBelle]

I made no mention of how they died, just that he desecrated their bodies.

And you’re right, with rare exception, no one believes that SW killed her kids.

By any account, he had just lost the most precious thing in his life, his children, and his immediate reaction was to destroy their bodies.

No matter what one believes, he was clearly only thinking about himself.

Those kids should have been buried side by side with their mother, not stuffed into adjacent tanks filled with oil.

Those are not the actions of a man, as much as they are the actions of a monster.

Death kills humans, what happens afterward is a different issue. A dead body concealed is a dead body concealed no matter where it might be hidden afterwards. I'm not on some kind of religious high-horse about "desecration" because the bodies were already dead and the charges against CW reflect that fact.

I seriously doubt a jury will conclude guilt on first degree murder based only on the fact he concealed the bodies. The prosecutor must prove the charge of murder and concealment of the bodies is secondary and a lessor offense. JMO

 

[margarita25]

Unless he ambushed her before she got to her kids' bedrooms he must've killed them after her. Because there is no way in hell IMO that that mama didn't come home from her trip and go look at her babies. Closely.

I’m thinking maybe she did get to look at them closely. And see that they were dead.

Or maybe they weren’t even there to be found..maybe they were dead in the garage or something already.

I just don’t know.

 

[margarita25]

Again, imo it seems like there could and should have been some time for him to at least try to save them. It makes zero sense that he wouldn’t call 911 immediately to try to help (resuscitate) them. Moo. And as mentioned LE would able to determine the nature of the crime scene had he called them.

Same old same old, nothing new to add I haven’t already said.

FTR believe it or not I can actually imagine that it would and could make someone angry and unleash upon someone harming your kids. However, there are sooo many other factors and I have no doubt that the prosecution will outline these, schematically, timeline wise. There will likely be a lot of highlighting holes in the defense’s theory, JMO.