Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #46

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  • #761
At the beginning I asked that. I mean even if he had gotten away with it, how is dealing with the police and an investigation, the media and relentless questions, and the endless questions, fear, terror and grief of friends and family how is all that easier than divorce?

And how on earth do they think they can get away with it when no one really does?

That's where I start to think something like being a narcissist comes in to play. Narcissists apparently have insecure identities. They don't adapt to change or deal with stressors well. And they can erupt into rage if they feel they're being unmasked.

They're also good at manipulating others so they aren't used to be confronted with lies.

Also, from what I've seen, family annihilators, mostly males, tend to come from enmeshed, dysfunctional families and have controlling/domineering mothers or sometimes fathers.

The type of families who, hypothetically, do things like refuse to accept anything but a meek and controllable daughter in law. Who do things like reject any creature who has a strong personality and can't be controlled. Refuse to attend the wedding, for example, because they dislike their son's choice so much.

Constantly blame every choice the couple makes that they don't like, on the daughter in law alone. Thing like incessantly undermine the daughter in law's parenting. Even if the consequences can be serious. Bad mouth the daughter in law to the son. Accuse her of not being good enough for their son/brother, etc., but of her thinking she's better than their family, putting on airs and acting too "perfect".

They usually come from the types of parents who completely annihilate their child's personality and then enmesh him with their own, perfect selves. So behind closed doors, during childhood, the son is carefully scrutinized for showing any emotion or idea that didn't mirror the annihilating parent's emotions or ideas. They are harshly criticized for showing signs of any independent personality, but given attention or affection for acting like the parent and being alert to the parent's moods and needs.

But in public, the parent will never accept any criticism of their child whatsoever. (Because being enmeshed means they feel the child is them, from what I've heard). So anything bad the child is accused of doing, the parent will never accept it. Their child is "perfect". (Cindy Anthony is a good example of this type of parent). Their child can tell transparent lies denying the bad deed and the parent will accept those lies without question (creating confidence in dishonesty for the child).

And if proof is irrefutable, another child or person influenced or controlled them or pushed them to it and that's why they did it. It is never their child's fault.

These are the types who, when their child is charged with a crime, will go to incredible lengths to prove their child is innocent. They will never accept guilt. They will come up with delusional excuses. Soundly disparage the police and prosecutors as being inept. They will express hatred and disdain of any witnesses for the state and call them stupid.

They will disparage and even blame the victims.

They will proudly and smugly defend their perfect child and even if they don't do so with verbal or written public statements, they may find other ways to publicly do so, like after the arrest and charges, posting featured social media photos of their child. For example, posting a photo of themselves with a smug smile as they stand proudly with their son in a photo that they put front and center, to send a defiant message to the world. "This is my perfect son. Screw YOU if you think he's guilty."

If the defense team tells their child the chances of winning are slim, they will react with disbelief and desperation and anger and work hard to find other counsel, perhaps asking everyone and anyone for suggestions of someone really good.

If their child is found guilty at trial, the defense team is inept. The witnesses lied. The jury was stupid and lazy. Everyone is against their child.

If their child pleads guilty, they cannot accept it. They may do things like erupt violently at media or any other hapless person in their midst. They will scream and rage at how stupid the defense team is and how it's all their fault. They may contradictorily also claim noble reasons that have nothing to do with guilt, for the guilty plea of their child.

I think the combination of the annihilator's narcissism and usually their families of origin, create a perfect storm where these shadow personalities feel backed in a corner but also confident in their ability to lie and get away with something bad.

They experience narcissistic panic at the thought of being seen as less than perfect by friends and family and colleagues. So divorcing a pregnant wife for an affair is not an option. Death is preferable than being unmasked.

And because they feel skilled at manipulating others and usually come from families where their lies are always believed and they're never held accountable for bad behavior, they somehow feel they can get away with murder, against all odds.

It's a perfect storm of fear and delusional confidence, IMO.

I can't think of any other reason why these people think such HORROR is the easier way out!
I think you described perfectly how a narcissist is borne, it begins with the parents. If bad parenting could be detected earlier perhaps we’d have less of these monsters roaming free to do as they please.
 
  • #762
Right. While at the same time several people who slammed that suggestion felt incredible speculation and rumors about Shanann was acceptable!

For what it's worth, I feel ALL that speculative, gossipy nonsense about her was baseless and without a shred of credible evidence.

But I've seen zero evidence that he molested his kids. Of course being an actual murderer makes it not as inconceivable as otherwise, but without proof I'm not going there at all.

This case is bad enough.

It was clear the children loved him and weren’t afraid of him. But it was musing on my part and trying to figure out what on earth happened. If a man can murder his wife and two little girls, he is capable of anything. I don’t feel it was necessary to try to make any member feel stupid for their thoughts on this case.
 
  • #763
I agree. It is confusing. When I initially read that I thought she died as a result of him trying to terminate the pregnancy. It still wouldn't surprise me if the autopsy results show she suffered a severe blow to her abdomen.
I wouldn't be surprised if the autopsy showed signs of sexual assault. Imo
 
  • #764
  • #765
I am just relieved that he came clean but I doubt his family putting pressure on him had anything to do with it. I assume that some of his family members wanted to buy his cockamamie story-denial is a natural response when the unthinkable has taken place.

It has always been crystal clear to me who was responsible for their deaths. It was the last man standing who had lied several times and changed his story several times. I tend to think the details are much worse than we can fathom and once they came out it would have made him look even worse (aka the autopsy reports). Therefore he’s not willing to put his neck on the line with a trial that only proves what a jerk he is. The fact that he tried to pin the girls’ deaths on Shanann is still horrific. He added insult to injury by potentially sullying her credibility when he and he alone is responsible.

Will the autopsy results be released after he is sentenced later this month now?
At the press conference held after the hearing, the DA stated that his office would not object to the release of any of the case records after sentencing, including the autopsy reports. Also, another gracious poster transcribed the entire press conference and posted it in this thread.
 
  • #766
I've been trying to read all the posts on here since the guilty plea, and I haven't yet caught up.

But I just want to say I believe CW has pled because he is guilty and a trial will have enough evidence that he wouldn't be found innocent on any charges or have any charges reduced. I am relieved for the family of Shanann that they won't have to face sullying of her character in CW's attempts to worm out of what he did.

I'm glad that the relatives and friends of Shanann and the children don't have to worry about their killer going free. They won't have to sit through trial and possible retrials.

But, as the DA said, this plea doesn't bring back the dead. It doesn't take away the pain. It doesn't save the parents who have children who were friends with Bella and Celeste from having to find a way to explain that their children won't play with the Watts girls any more, and the struggle of how to tell them what happened .... and if not now, one day those children learning Bella and Celeste were murdered by their own daddy. We know the names of the victims, but there are so many others out there who suffer from the after-effects of murder.

Then you have all the LE and related staff who worked so hard, initially taking CW at his word that the family had 'vanished', and then having to retrieve and autopsy the bodies that CW 'hid' so that he could lie his face off to media, to his family and friends, and pretend he had "no inclination" as to where they might be or what happened to them. How long would he have kept up that lie if it wasn't for the locked house and the neighbor's camera pointing at the front door and garage door to show that Shanann and the girls didn't walk out there alive?

And then there are the 46 threads, and counting, here with so many thoughtful, analytical, passionate and compassionate posts! I'm glad I no longer follow these cases alone and have access to all your thoughts and the ability to bounce ideas back and forth with people who aren't just 'headline skimmers'.

And thanks to all the mods for their extra hard work through these threads!
 
  • #767
I had assumed that, too, but it looks like prisoners have the right to request protective custody if they fear for their safety.

CW did not allow the family he killed, to have any rights.
So if he expects to have rights now, in the choice, where he is to be in prisoned,
I hope these will be quashed.
 
  • #768
I dread to think how he may have treated the girls that weekend. If he'd already made his mind up it was happening he would have been completely detached and there would have been no one there to look out for them. I'm not talking necessarily about physical violence but switched off and not attentive towards them. I know there was the birthday party during which he acted as normal. Didn't I read here that he refused to let Shan'ann talk to them before bedtime? That in itself is a sign they had either already been killed or they may have been crying because daddy wasn't being nice. Had she told someone he wouldn't let her speak to the girls?

All speculation.
 
  • #769
CW did not allow the family he killed, to have any rights.
So if he expects to have rights now, in the choice, where he is to be in prisoned,
I hope these will be quashed.
I don't disagree, but it is also something the prison can decide to do without his making a request for it. I'd be very surprised if he ended up in general population, regardless of whether he is doing the requesting.
 
  • #770
I think you described perfectly how a narcissist is borne, it begins with the parents. If bad parenting could be detected earlier perhaps we’d have less of these monsters roaming free to do as they please.
Unfortunately, some of the parenting narc traits including constant praise, and elevation, and special treatment of a child are not always recognized as "bad parenting" but passed off as mere "spoiling." I agree it would be great to detect the contributing narc parenting traits earlier. MOO
 
  • #771
He may have considered it, but I think it's more likely he just wanted to be rid of them and completely erase them as if they never existed. Jmo

I agree. Personally, I doubt that divorce was ever on the table for him.

Yes the end result in his mind was to erase them completely. There was an option but he did not like it.
 
  • #772
I dread to think how he may have treated the girls that weekend. If he'd already made his mind up it was happening he would have been completely detached and there would have been no one there to look out for them. I'm not talking necessarily about physical violence but switched off and not attentive towards them. I know there was the birthday party during which he acted as normal. Didn't I read here that he refused to let Shan'ann talk to them before bedtime? That in itself is a sign they had either already been killed or they may have been crying because daddy wasn't being nice. Had she told someone he wouldn't let her speak to the girls?

All speculation.

It's especially cruel if true. She wasn't allowed to talk to her babies one last time while she was away, before they were murdered.
 
  • #773
  • #774
I dread to think how he may have treated the girls that weekend. If he'd already made his mind up it was happening he would have been completely detached and there would have been no one there to look out for them. I'm not talking necessarily about physical violence but switched off and not attentive towards them. I know there was the birthday party during which he acted as normal. Didn't I read here that he refused to let Shan'ann talk to them before bedtime? That in itself is a sign they had either already been killed or they may have been crying because daddy wasn't being nice. Had she told someone he wouldn't let her speak to the girls?

All speculation.
I think I have read that too but don't remember where. It was one of the reasons I thought they may have been killed first.

If they were still alive by that point, it might also have been a passive-aggressive way to pick a fight with her, knowing she'd come home frustrated and irritated with him for doing that.
 
  • #775
Last pic of the girls...
b3wytf.jpg
 
  • #776
After reading the Written Waiver and Guilty Plea I think BW & CW were most likely killed prior to SW & NW. I really hope SW didn’t know her babies were killed or see them. :(:(:(:(
JMHO but I have a feeling he made sure she knew the girls were dead based on what 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 he is!
 
  • #777
  • #778
I had to step away from WS because of the anquish I felt over these 2 deaths.
 
  • #779
  • #780
I dread to think how he may have treated the girls that weekend. If he'd already made his mind up it was happening he would have been completely detached and there would have been no one there to look out for them. I'm not talking necessarily about physical violence but switched off and not attentive towards them. I know there was the birthday party during which he acted as normal. Didn't I read here that he refused to let Shan'ann talk to them before bedtime? That in itself is a sign they had either already been killed or they may have been crying because daddy wasn't being nice. Had she told someone he wouldn't let her speak to the girls?

All speculation.
It's been long reported that SW and the girls spent 6 weeks in NC, and the subject weekend was CW's first time alone with the girls since returning from their extended trip. It's also been alleged that CW hired a babysitter on Saturday night rather than spend this time with his daughters so I do believe he was very much detached from the girls at the time he took their lives from them. I also recall reading that CW did not allow SW to speak to BW Sunday evening, alleging that it gets the child "worked up" near bedtime - leaving him to deal with the drama. MOO
 
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