Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #46

[mrjitty]

I'm the one with the granny flip phone. I'll try it on the kindle but I don't think it works there either. I never griped before because ppl would post the gist.

can't you just download & instal Adobe Acrobat reader?

 

[NuttMegg]

can't you just download & instal Adobe Acrobat reader?

I "think" I already have that, lol. I am not ignorant of computers, but after installing windows 10 nothing works the same. I think there is some toggle that dictates which program to use for pdfs, I just have to figure it out I guess.

 

[Marli61]

I understand the reason they had to charge him with termination of her pregnancy, but to see it written there that she died 'as a result of' the termination is very confusing, to say the least.
To see the children's names listed there and see the admission that their deaths were committed with deliberation just makes me shudder.

I agree. It is confusing. When I initially read that I thought she died as a result of him trying to terminate the pregnancy. It still wouldn't surprise me if the autopsy results show she suffered a severe blow to her abdomen.

 

[nwmouse]

The Thayer family had mentioned that he had talked about selling the house when he stayed with them even though it seemed an odd thing to be discussing while they were supposedly “missing”—it was one of the things that made them contact the police when they wanted to say there was something amiss with his behavior.

Just like the other monster, Scott Peterson. He wanted to sell the house after he murdered Lacie and pretended she'd "gone missing".
Edited to MOO

 

[NuttMegg]

Here are jpeg versions of the waiver and plea documents. You should be able to open them...

That is so kind, thank you very much.

 

[nwmouse]

But there was a way out called divorce. Yes he would have had to pay child support for years to come but it was an option. He did not have to kill them all.

Quite so.
Murder is horribly final, you cannot take it back.
This is the most appalling crime he committed -- slaughtering his entire family so he could be out and about playing the field, so to speak. They were nothing more than an inconvenience he wanted annihilated forever.
MOO

 

[sun16]

Makes sense. With his concern about appearances and his introversion and the likelihood of him being targeted due to his crimes and his high profile, I would be surprised if he asked to be put in general population.

But does he even get a choice? Seems to me he will be told where he is going and the circumstances, not the other way around.

 

[Seattle1]

"After deliberation" - I take that to mean that they know this was all pre-planned. Thoughts?

The plea agreement posted a couple pages back (post #653), and signed by CW, states the acts were after deliberation ...not committed in a "hasty or impulsive manner," and committed with intent. I also believe "after the exercise of reflection and judgement" means they were planned. MOO

 

[Zella]

But does he even get a choice? Seems to me he will be told where he is going and the circumstances, not the other way around.

I had assumed that, too, but it looks like prisoners have the right to request protective custody if they fear for their safety.

 

[Seattle1]

Is there any photo's of CW from yesterday ?

I don't believe so. The only photo I recall was of SW family seated at the DA press conference following the hearing. However, another poster present at the hearing reported that CW appeared heavier, with fuller face than when arrested.

 

[gitana1]

JMO
Catching up and glad to hear he finally admitted it.

What a fool he was to even think he was going to get away with this.

If criminals like him would just think things through a little further before they act then a lot of crime could be prevented.

All one had to do is think of who the suspects would be in this crime and all targets would point right at him.

Having the sexual escapades outside of the marriage was bound to be found out so did he not even think LE would find out about those. And with forensics the way it is these days LE can prove pretty much everything.

His beginning story of them disappearing was so foolish because all her friends knew she was not planning on going anywhere. And no kidnapper would take her and the kids. It was crazy story.

And then he changed his story to his silly and foolish other story which made no sense because the kids were dead so he could not have caught her in the act at the end.

The only thing that would have been slightly more believable would have been if he claimed he killed her in a fit of rage after finding out she already killed the kids. But even that would have been found out eventually because she loved her kids. She had no reason to kill them.

He was just foolish and did not think things through at all.

I have never understood why someone like him would not just divorce and leave if they are unhappy. Go through the normal channels and sure if you have to pay some child support then so be it because you had the kids too.

Just an arrogant fool and he deserves where he will end up for life. He deserves more but at least there will not be the death row bleeding hearts to help him.

At the beginning I asked that. I mean even if he had gotten away with it, how is dealing with the police and an investigation, the media and relentless questions, and the endless questions, fear, terror and grief of friends and family how is all that easier than divorce?

And how on earth do they think they can get away with it when no one really does?

That's where I start to think something like being a narcissist comes in to play. Narcissists apparently have insecure identities. They don't adapt to change or deal with stressors well. And they can erupt into rage if they feel they're being unmasked.

They're also good at manipulating others so they aren't used to be confronted with lies.

Also, from what I've seen, family annihilators, mostly males, tend to come from enmeshed, dysfunctional families and have controlling/domineering mothers or sometimes fathers.

The type of families who, hypothetically, do things like refuse to accept anything but a meek and controllable daughter in law. Who do things like reject any creature who has a strong personality and can't be controlled. Refuse to attend the wedding, for example, because they dislike their son's choice so much.

Constantly blame every choice the couple makes that they don't like, on the daughter in law alone. Thing like incessantly undermine the daughter in law's parenting. Even if the consequences can be serious. Bad mouth the daughter in law to the son. Accuse her of not being good enough for their son/brother, etc., but of her thinking she's better than their family, putting on airs and acting too "perfect".

They usually come from the types of parents who completely annihilate their child's personality and then enmesh him with their own, perfect selves. So behind closed doors, during childhood, the son is carefully scrutinized for showing any emotion or idea that didn't mirror the annihilating parent's emotions or ideas. They are harshly criticized for showing signs of any independent personality, but given attention or affection for acting like the parent and being alert to the parent's moods and needs.

But in public, the parent will never accept any criticism of their child whatsoever. (Because being enmeshed means they feel the child is them, from what I've heard). So anything bad the child is accused of doing, the parent will never accept it. Their child is "perfect". (Cindy Anthony is a good example of this type of parent). Their child can tell transparent lies denying the bad deed and the parent will accept those lies without question (creating confidence in dishonesty for the child).

And if proof is irrefutable, another child or person influenced or controlled them or pushed them to it and that's why they did it. It is never their child's fault.

These are the types who, when their child is charged with a crime, will go to incredible lengths to prove their child is innocent. They will never accept guilt. They will come up with delusional excuses. Soundly disparage the police and prosecutors as being inept. They will express hatred and disdain of any witnesses for the state and call them stupid.

They will disparage and even blame the victims.

They will proudly and smugly defend their perfect child and even if they don't do so with verbal or written public statements, they may find other ways to publicly do so, like after the arrest and charges, posting featured social media photos of their child. For example, posting a photo of themselves with a smug smile as they stand proudly with their son in a photo that they put front and center, to send a defiant message to the world. "This is my perfect son. Screw YOU if you think he's guilty."

If the defense team tells their child the chances of winning are slim, they will react with disbelief and desperation and anger and work hard to find other counsel, perhaps asking everyone and anyone for suggestions of someone really good.

If their child is found guilty at trial, the defense team is inept. The witnesses lied. The jury was stupid and lazy. Everyone is against their child.

If their child pleads guilty, they cannot accept it. They may do things like erupt violently at media or any other hapless person in their midst. They will scream and rage at how stupid the defense team is and how it's all their fault. They may contradictorily also claim noble reasons that have nothing to do with guilt, for the guilty plea of their child.

I think the combination of the annihilator's narcissism and usually their families of origin, create a perfect storm where these shadow personalities feel backed in a corner but also confident in their ability to lie and get away with something bad.

They experience narcissistic panic at the thought of being seen as less than perfect by friends and family and colleagues. So divorcing a pregnant wife for an affair is not an option. Death is preferable than being unmasked.

And because they feel skilled at manipulating others and usually come from families where their lies are always believed and they're never held accountable for bad behavior, they somehow feel they can get away with murder, against all odds.

It's a perfect storm of fear and delusional confidence, IMO.

I can't think of any other reason why these people think such HORROR is the easier way out!

 

[maeleemae]

I could not believe it, but it may be possible he killed the kids first. Since they were not there as he was grilling, he may have been celebrating. The stomach contents of the girls will tell the tale.

The topic was forbidden before but since it has been brought up, perhaps there was sexual abuse.

I brought up the possibility of sexual abuse but got slammed for suggesting it could have happened. It was not forbidden by TOS as far as I know.

 

[gitana1]

I am just relieved that he came clean but I doubt his family putting pressure on him had anything to do with it. I assume that some of his family members wanted to buy his cockamamie story-denial is a natural response when the unthinkable has taken place.

It has always been crystal clear to me who was responsible for their deaths. It was the last man standing who had lied several times and changed his story several times. I tend to think the details are much worse than we can fathom and once they came out it would have made him look even worse (aka the autopsy reports). Therefore he’s not willing to put his neck on the line with a trial that only proves what a jerk he is. The fact that he tried to pin the girls’ deaths on Shanann is still horrific. He added insult to injury by potentially sullying her credibility when he and he alone is responsible.

Will the autopsy results be released after he is sentenced later this month now?

Yes. After sentencing.

 

[MsBetsy]

But there was a way out called divorce. Yes he would have had to pay child support for years to come but it was an option. He did not have to kill them all.

He may have considered it, but I think it's more likely he just wanted to be rid of them and completely erase them as if they never existed. Jmo

 

[MassGuy]

He may have considered it, but I think it's more likely he just wanted to be rid of them and completely erase them as if they never existed. Jmo

I agree. Personally, I doubt that divorce was ever on the table for him.

 

[gitana1]

I brought it up but got slammed for suggesting it could be a possibility. It was not forbidden by TOS.

Right. While at the same time several people who slammed that suggestion felt incredible speculation and rumors about Shanann was acceptable!

For what it's worth, I feel ALL that speculative, gossipy nonsense about her was baseless and without a shred of credible evidence.

But I've seen zero evidence that he molested his kids. Of course being an actual murderer makes it not as inconceivable as otherwise, but without proof I'm not going there at all.

This case is bad enough.

 

[MsBetsy]

But there was a way out called divorce. Yes he would have had to pay child support for years to come but it was an option. He did not have to kill them all.

Sorry, I just replied to this and reread my original post. I meant no way of getting out of being charged with the murders.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

After reading the Written Waiver and Guilty Plea I think BW & CW were most likely killed prior to SW & NW. I really hope SW didn’t know her babies were killed or see them.

 

[gitana1]

It's either the state, or the insurance carrier that dictates when the benefit is paid for a missing person. It is usually several years.

A while back, I found the life insurance benefit information on his employer's website and posted the information. CW would have had the option to purchase various amounts of coverage from $25,000 up to $100,000 on Shanann. I heard he did purchase coverage, I believe via Ashley Banfield. I do not know what amount of coverage he purchased.

He had the option of purchasing either $5,000 or $10,000 each, on Bella and Celeste. Again, I don't know what he purchased.

I could not tell by the information on the employer website whether the life insurance benefit included accidental death coverage or not. I don't believe the additional benefit was there, but if it was, the homicide of an insured is considered by the insurance industry to be an accident to the insured. An accidental death benefit, if applicable in this case, would likely double the benefit payable.

If a spouse or child dies, the life insurance payout is tax-free and is payable to the employee. In this case, the premium for the month of August was likely deducted from his paycheck and my thoughts are SW and the girls were very likely covered under the life insurance plan until the last day of August. The murders occurred on August 13-14.

CW has admitted to being the slayer and he has no hope of collecting the benefit. Someone will receive the benefit, but I am not sure how that will be handled.

Hope that helps! ETA: I am curious to hear what the DA believes was the motive. I have no idea if CW thought he might collect a life insurance benefit but he may have thought that he would. I followed a case on websleuths a couple of years ago where a husband murdered his wife and his motive was indeed to try to collect $1,100,000 on her. All of the assumptions he made about the life insurance were 100% wrong.

I believe the children's estate would collect. Which would be their parents. But one is ineligible because he killed them. The other one is dead so HER estate would be eligible to collect the benefits. I.e. her parents and brother unless someone else was named.

 

[Tortoise]

It's either the state, or the insurance carrier that dictates when the benefit is paid for a missing person. It is usually several years.

A while back, I found the life insurance benefit information on his employer's website and posted the information. CW would have had the option to purchase various amounts of coverage from $25,000 up to $100,000 on Shanann. I heard he did purchase coverage, I believe via Ashley Banfield. I do not know what amount of coverage he purchased.

He had the option of purchasing either $5,000 or $10,000 each, on Bella and Celeste. Again, I don't know what he purchased.

I could not tell by the information on the employer website whether the life insurance benefit included accidental death coverage or not. I don't believe the additional benefit was there, but if it was, the homicide of an insured is considered by the insurance industry to be an accident to the insured. An accidental death benefit, if applicable in this case, would likely double the benefit payable.

If a spouse or child dies, the life insurance payout is tax-free and is payable to the employee. In this case, the premium for the month of August was likely deducted from his paycheck and my thoughts are SW and the girls were very likely covered under the life insurance plan until the last day of August. The murders occurred on August 13-14.

CW has admitted to being the slayer and he has no hope of collecting the benefit. Someone will receive the benefit, but I am not sure how that will be handled.

Hope that helps! ETA: I am curious to hear what the DA believes was the motive. I have no idea if CW thought he might collect a life insurance benefit but he may have thought that he would. I followed a case on websleuths a couple of years ago where a husband murdered his wife and his motive was indeed to try to collect $1,100,000 on her. All of the assumptions he made about the life insurance were 100% wrong.

Thank you for your reply molly.