Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #46

[MassGuy]

Possible but these types are pretty methodical. I have always thought he had this planned. I mean, who the hell just on the spur of the moment decides they are dumping their children in crude? Nope. It just doesn't happen.

ETA: They started begging for an offer right about the time the autopsy reports came in so I still believe they are damning.

Oh, I absolutely believe that there is damning digital or physical evidence, possibly including those autopsy reports.

I’m just not sure that the autopsies themselves, will be able to prove who was killed first.

 

[Mitch11]

Actually I think deleting his facebook or making it private or whatever he did with it (IDK) is probably a significant date. I think that could be when he may have started the pretence (to someone) that he was a single man.

Totally!!! There will be a calculated reason Im sure. It would be so interesting to know the AP's story. Wouldn't suprise me if he was pretending she left him etc especially with SW and the girls being away for a bit. Given he did these crimes so soon after they came back, I think it all adds up to a pretense he was putting on.

 

[Tigerlily75]

No it was Michelle Young. I thought I recognized your username but it has been since 2011 when the 2nd trial ended (she was killed in 2006). I thought I remembered your name but I suppose someone else in the world could also love tiger lillies

No, not me, I joined in 2014 during the Gerard Baden-Clay case

 

[NuttMegg]

This one?
Found Deceased - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #46

Thanks Pommy, that's an earlier one i already saw, maybe i was wrong that Tricia had done a new one after the hearing yesterday.

 

[celticthyme]

Oh, I absolutely believe that there is damning digitial or physical evidence, possibly including those autopsy reports.

I’m just not sure that the autopsies themselves, will be able to prove who was killed first.

How much do you think where the girls were found, (I can't type it) might affect cause of death / time of death? And can the autopsies give an idea of the TOD for SW vs the girls?

 

[Tigerlily75]

Totally!!! There will be a calculated reason Im sure. It would be so interesting to know the AP's story. Wouldn't suprise me if he was pretending she left him etc especially with SW and the girls being away for a bit. Given he did these crimes so soon after they came back, I think it all adds up to a pretense he was putting on.

Absolutely, and if we’re to believe the potential male AP, TB, he said CW had implied his marriage was over to him too, until TB found out otherwise.

He lied to a lot of people.

I wonder if we’ll learn anyomore about the TB affair at sentencing.

 

[cailleach]

Oh, I absolutely believe that there is damning digitial or physical evidence, possibly including those autopsy reports.

I’m just not sure that the autopsies themselves, will be able to prove who was killed first.

The way I break things down with regard to the autopsies, aside from other forms of evidence, is that defense counsel kept playing the "dumb" card complaining about how much they didn't know about everything the State had. That ceased after the autopsies when they started seeking a deal. There's no record the DA ever disclosed evidence other than the autopsies that I'm aware of. I never anticipated the autopsies were going to be the "smoking gun" some thought but there was something there that got the defense to get real with the defendant about his chances that appears to correlate with getting that information.

 

[Mitch11]

Absolutely, and if we’re to believe the potential male AP, TB, he said CW had implied his marriage was over to him too, until TB found out otherwise.

He lied to a lot of people.

I wonder if we’ll learn anyomore about the TB affair at sentencing.

Fully!!!! How legitimate do you think TB is? Do you think his story adds up? The reason I ask is I have never been quite sure about the truth of that story, but I acknowledge that I haven't followed that story closely enough. I also saw some random FB post ages ago with a women claiming she had 'personal' contact with CW but couldnt say anymore. All signs of a narcissist regardless... totally out for himself.

 

[gitana1]

Would CW’s family have been informed in advance of the status hearing that he was going to plead guilty? I wonder how it all works on the defense side. It must have been very difficult for them. If they’ve been processing his version of events and accepting that as the truth for the last few months, it must be very difficult to do a complete turnaround and process this “new” reality.

What a trail of victims he leaves.

Yes. They showed up and knew why they were there. And it's clear to me (opinion only) that someone from their camp let leak to certain favored people that there would be a plea that day. Just not the details.

I can't see a defendant shocking their family like that unless they didn't know or like them. He reportedly nodded to them in the courtroom as he entered. I believe he's super close with them.

 

[gitana1]

Fully!!!! How legitimate do you think TB is? Do you think his story adds up? The reason I ask is I have never been quite sure about the truth of that story, but I acknowledge that I haven't followed that story closely enough. I also saw some random FB post ages ago with a women claiming she had 'personal' contact with CW but couldnt say anymore. All signs of a narcissist regardless... totally out for himself.

He sounds real when you hear him talk. But I'm still on the fence. I would not at all be surprised.

I don't think CW has a real sense of self and if he does have sociopathic tendencies, those types often engage in ever escalating risky or exciting behaviors (like sex with strange people of any sex regardless of their own inherent orientation, just because its kinky), because they just feel this full apathy about life most of the time.

Things that engage normal people don't engage them.

 

[idfinch]

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Written Waiver and Guilty Plea.pdf

Question for legal experts - @gitana1 ?

Page 9/9 of the Waiver and Guilty Plea at the bottom states the following with the boxes checked:

X - "Evidence log provided in discovery" [but at the bottom, handwritten: "Log not provided with paperwork"]

X - "The defendant agrees and the Court orders that law enforcement may discard, destroy or return all evidence set forth on the attached log and that evidence will be released according to the law enforcement agency's procedures and the defendant waives any right to further notification before the evidence is released. A photo ID is required for released evidence. The representative of the defendant who may collect the property is _Ronnie Watts_ ."

Does this mean that anything collected from the start as evidence from both sides, i.e. things in the garbage bags such as computers, phones, comforters, blankets, sheets, teddy bears... household items, toys from the girls, truck, etc. Anything that wasn't left behind in the house that Shanann's family moved into storage goes to CW's family first?

It seems odd and wrong to me as the property isn't solely his as the defendant, but is joint property between him and his murder victim, therefore her estate and her family. Does LE have a say on what is kept back? Is anything containing potential DNA or evidence kept behind and/or destroyed such as the garbage bag with the footprint, etc?

What is standard or legal in DV murder cases such as these? Thanks.

 

[Thepoet]

Oh, I absolutely believe that there is damning digitial or physical evidence, possibly including those autopsy reports.

I’m just not sure that the autopsies themselves, will be able to prove who was killed first.

Obviously CW is not that smart. I think he had a plan he believed would allow him to get away with murder and satisfy some twisted needs, resentments, whatever This involved killing the girls, after the birthday party and before he was grilling, so he could set a nightmare scene for SW before she arrived home. And then she was three hours late. I believe this means there are things the autopsy would show and would prove a timeline.

We'll see.

 

[gitana1]

I believe they knew only couple days before as they had to get a last minute flight to be there.

I think they knew about the first offer and some of them were outraged. That's my "instinct".

 

[gitana1]

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Written Waiver and Guilty Plea.pdf

Question for legal experts - @gitana1 ?

Page 9/9 of the Waiver and Guilty Plea at the bottom states the following with the boxes checked:

X - "Evidence log provided in discovery" [but at the bottom, handwritten: "Log not provided with paperwork"]

X - "The defendant agrees and the Court orders that law enforcement may discard, destroy or return all evidence set forth on the attached log and that evidence will be released according to the law enforcement agency's procedures and the defendant waives any right to further notification before the evidence is released. A photo ID is required for released evidence. The representative of the defendant who may collect the property is _Ronnie Watts_ ."

Does this mean that anything collected from the start as evidence from both sides, i.e. things in the garbage bags such as computers, phones, comforters, blankets, sheets, teddy bears... household items, toys from the girls, truck, etc. Anything that wasn't left behind in the house that Shanann's family moved into storage goes to CW's family first?

It seems odd and wrong to me as the property isn't solely his as the defendant, but is joint property between him and his murder victim, therefore her estate and her family. Does LE have a say on what is kept back? Is anything containing potential DNA or evidence kept behind and/or destroyed such as the garbage bag with the footprint, etc?

What is standard or legal in DV murder cases such as these? Thanks.

No. It just means that any evidence that will be returned to the defendant will be returned to Ronnie Watts.

But I'm sure it's not much. The rest will likely be preserved, or given to SW's family or destroyed.

Her estate (parents) will get her and the childrens' things.

 

[idfinch]

No. It just means that any evidence that will be returned to the defendant will be returned to Ronnie Watts.

But I'm sure it's not much. The rest will likely be preserved, or given to SW's family or destroyed.

Her estate (parents) will get her and the childrens' things.

Thank you, that is a relief to know. I was hoping they wouldn't receive everything including items that could contain digital evidence or things that could be spun in a negative way on his victims.

 

[cailleach]

Thanks Pommy, that's an earlier one i already saw, maybe i was wrong that Tricia had done a new one after the hearing yesterday.

She did and I had planned to listen it to it later. I saw it posted here last night too.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Possible but these types are pretty methodical. I have always thought he had this planned. I mean, who the hell just on the spur of the moment decides they are dumping their children in crude? Nope. It just doesn't happen.

ETA: They started begging for an offer right about the time the autopsy reports came in so I still believe they are damning.

I wonder why the state wanted them sealed? This was a bone of contention in these threads because some felt it would exonerate CW. It was a tricky time imo, doubt was creeping in.

I thought, at the time, it was due to this Bill introduced in April, Open-records advocates say bill to seal minors' autopsy reports could obscure failings in child-protection system
but @Seattle1 corrected me with this, the Bill was vetoed in June by the governor -
Governor vetoes bill to seal child autopsy reports, citing societal benefits of 'an informed public' - Colorado Freedom of Information Coalition

So maybe, the state was attempting to keep to the original Bill (protect the children and the family) but CW's defense opposed it, as a matter of course, rather than what it contained.

 

[Thepoet]

I just had a thought. I wonder if the DA had a lot of evidence of CW affairs and sexual proclivities and it was explained that this would all come out in trial with witnesses and evidence. And everyone will know. I think this would explain CW's capitulation, his anger, and frustration, because it is not something he wants to come out!

 

[ReckoningDay]

Totally!!! There will be a calculated reason Im sure. It would be so interesting to know the AP's story. Wouldn't suprise me if he was pretending she left him etc especially with SW and the girls being away for a bit. Given he did these crimes so soon after they came back, I think it all adds up to a pretense he was putting on.

Could very well be that!

 

[ZsaZsa]

It is really puzzling to me how when the language used in legal documents is always so precise, so there can be no misconstruing the meaning, that this section of the charges - Section 6, item 4 and 5 can seem so misleading. How does this sentence square with her cause of death ( presumed strangling).
Section 6 Unlawful termination of a pregnancy.
4. Terminated the pregnancy of the woman.
5. Further, the woman died AS A RESULT of the termination of the pregnancy .
I saw the DA explain there was no statute available to charge for Nico's death, but to anyone reading this document it certainly looks like an unlawful termination killed her.
Attorneys, please? Surely 5. should be reversed.