Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #46

[Tortoise]

I've really wracked my brains on this one and I just don't think the autopsies could show whether the girls were killed a long time before Shan'ann. Unless they had birthday cake in their stomachs and it could be shown that they ate it at the party. I think that is quite unlikely. If they'd been sedated that might show up in their livers, and I suppose they could say there was no time for this in the timeline of Shan'ann's arrival home and her own death. Although in the context of his story of her attacking the girls that certainly wasn't a possibility.

In terms of proving it was him there could be internal bruising in the girls' necks larger than Shan'ann's finger length. Or no neck damage, and a totally different cause of death for the girls like poisoning for instance, with CW hoping the oil would accelerate decomposition but being wrong about that.

Just a few ideas.

 

[ZsaZsa]

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Written Waiver and Guilty Plea.pdf

Question for legal experts - @gitana1 ?

Page 9/9 of the Waiver and Guilty Plea at the bottom states the following with the boxes checked:

X - "Evidence log provided in discovery" [but at the bottom, handwritten: "Log not provided with paperwork"]

X - "The defendant agrees and the Court orders that law enforcement may discard, destroy or return all evidence set forth on the attached log and that evidence will be released according to the law enforcement agency's procedures and the defendant waives any right to further notification before the evidence is released. A photo ID is required for released evidence. The representative of the defendant who may collect the property is _Ronnie Watts_ ."

Does this mean that anything collected from the start as evidence from both sides, i.e. things in the garbage bags such as computers, phones, comforters, blankets, sheets, teddy bears... household items, toys from the girls, truck, etc. Anything that wasn't left behind in the house that Shanann's family moved into storage goes to CW's family first?

It seems odd and wrong to me as the property isn't solely his as the defendant, but is joint property between him and his murder victim, therefore her estate and her family. Does LE have a say on what is kept back? Is anything containing potential DNA or evidence kept behind and/or destroyed such as the garbage bag with the footprint, etc?

What is standard or legal in DV murder cases such as these? Thanks.

I'm not expert you addressed your question to, but wouldn't that evidence also include his phone, his truck, plus all the stuff we saw being carried out in bags...

 

[Noreen McGurl]

I think he did himself in with his actions and words both before and after his totally cowardly Act of self-gratification and I'm sure all of her friends as well as family saw the way he was acting and Shanann clued them in as well. She was a very smart cookie! God bless her and her babies!!!

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I've really wracked my brains on this one and I just don't think the autopsies could show whether the girls were killed a long time before Shan'ann. Unless they had birthday cake in their stomachs and it could be shown that they ate it at the party. I think that is quite unlikely. If they'd been sedated that might show up in their livers, and I suppose they could say there was no time for this in the timeline of Shan'ann's arrival home and her own death. Although in the context of his story of her attacking the girls that certainly wasn't a possibility.

In terms of proving it was him there could be internal bruising in the girls' necks larger than Shan'ann's finger length. Or no neck damage, and a totally different cause of death for the girls like poisoning for instance, with CW hoping the oil would accelerate decomposition but being wrong about that.

Just a few ideas.

Liver Mortis is also a possibility. The blood is settled and fixed in 5-6 hours. If they were deceased for more than 5-6 hours prior to being moved, the blood patterns on their body would show that. It would settle differently if suspended in a liquid immediately after death.

 

[kiwilaura]

Directed at the general apologists, no one in particular. But if you’re in this camp, there are plenty of places you can now go to chat. Not here.

Why are people still trying to somehow find some justification for these murders. I don’t care how much pressure they were under. I don’t care if Shanann travelled too much. Or spent too much money. Or Chris did. Or one of them hen-pecked the other.

MILLIONS of families are under pressure. Millions have money problems, relationship problems, health problems, family problems, drug problems... yet manage not to kill their partner and children.

To cope, millions of men and women cheat on their partners. Have full blown affairs or just sleep around. Lie. Turn their backs on their families. Walk away. Bad mouth their exes. Get divorced.

I could excuse Chris for any of the above. But there is no justification for his actions. NONE.

If he really couldn’t handle whatever the pressure was, he should have topped himself.

Stop trying to find a way to suggest this was inevitable or that “you can see how it happened”.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Directed at the general apologists, no one in particular. But if you’re in this camp, there are plenty of places you can now go to chat. Not here.

Why are people still trying to somehow find some justification for these murders. I don’t care how much pressure they were under. I don’t care if Shanann travelled too much. Or spent too much money. Or Chris did. Or one of them hen-pecked the other.


MILLIONS of families are under pressure. Millions have money problems, relationship problems, health problems, family problems, drug problems... yet manage not to kill their partner and children.


Millions of men and women cheat on their partners. Have full blown affairs or just sleep around. Lie. Turn their backs on their families. Walk away. Bad mouth their exes.


I could excuse Chris for any of the above. But there is no justification for his action. NONE.


If he really couldn’t handle whatever the pressure was, he should have topped himself.


Stop trying to find away to suggest this was inevitable.

Preach it, totally agree

 

[BeanieBod]

Yes. I just got off the phone with her. But not for her, today wouldn't have happened. At least not for a long, long time. And she still doesn't think she did anything other than be a good friend.

I pray that all of us have such a good friend in our lives. Peace be with you.

 

[Noreen McGurl]

Directed at the general apologists, no one in particular. But if you’re in this camp, there are plenty of places you can now go to chat. Not here.

Why are people still trying to somehow find some justification for these murders. I don’t care how much pressure they were under. I don’t care if Shanann travelled too much. Or spent too much money. Or Chris did. Or one of them hen-pecked the other.

MILLIONS of families are under pressure. Millions have money problems, relationship problems, health problems, family problems, drug problems... yet manage not to kill their partner and children.

To cope, millions of men and women cheat on their partners. Have full blown affairs or just sleep around. Lie. Turn their backs on their families. Walk away. Bad mouth their exes. Get divorced.

I could excuse Chris for any of the above. But there is no justification for his actions. NONE.

If he really couldn’t handle whatever the pressure was, he should have topped himself.

Stop trying to find a way to suggest this was inevitable or that “you can see how it happened”.

 

[SweetPeas56]

It is really puzzling to me how when the language used in legal documents is always so precise, so there can be no misconstruing the meaning, that this section of the charges - Section 6, item 4 and 5 can seem so misleading. How does this sentence square with her cause of death ( presumed strangling).
Section 6 Unlawful termination of a pregnancy.
4. Terminated the pregnancy of the woman.
5. Further, the woman died AS A RESULT of the termination of the pregnancy .
I saw the DA explain there was no statute available to charge for Nico's death, but to anyone reading this document it certainly looks like an unlawful termination killed her.
Attorneys, please? Surely 5. should be reversed.

I am not an attorney, but there was one who explained this previously. I don't recall where, but it was this - CW terminated the pregnancy by strangling the pregnant mother, and as a result of terminating the pregnancy by strangling the mother, he also caused the mother's death.

 

[Johnny1181]

Regarding the order of these horrific deaths, I may be interpreting wrong but I believe the prosecutor said in the press conference that they don't know. And the only way they could know would be if CW told them, but they cannot believe a word he would say so it remains unknown. jmo

ETA: that tells me they weren't able to put together a timeline through the autopsies. I'm curious to see the theory they hopefully put forth after this FA is sentenced.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Directed at the general apologists, no one in particular. But if you’re in this camp, there are plenty of places you can now go to chat. Not here.

Why are people still trying to somehow find some justification for these murders. I don’t care how much pressure they were under. I don’t care if Shanann travelled too much. Or spent too much money. Or Chris did. Or one of them hen-pecked the other.

MILLIONS of families are under pressure. Millions have money problems, relationship problems, health problems, family problems, drug problems... yet manage not to kill their partner and children.

To cope, millions of men and women cheat on their partners. Have full blown affairs or just sleep around. Lie. Turn their backs on their families. Walk away. Bad mouth their exes. Get divorced.

I could excuse Chris for any of the above. But there is no justification for his actions. NONE.

If he really couldn’t handle whatever the pressure was, he should have topped himself.

Stop trying to find a way to suggest this was inevitable or that “you can see how it happened”.

Absolutely!!

He had no right to take their lives! Each one of those lives was precious and they were loved by many and they deserved to live and make their own life choices! If he wanted out THEN LEAVE. Millions do this everyday! Just leave. There is no “I can see how this happened”. None. OMG.

How dare he.

 

[Kensie]

Directed at the general apologists, no one in particular. But if you’re in this camp, there are plenty of places you can now go to chat. Not here.

Why are people still trying to somehow find some justification for these murders. I don’t care how much pressure they were under. I don’t care if Shanann travelled too much. Or spent too much money. Or Chris did. Or one of them hen-pecked the other.

MILLIONS of families are under pressure. Millions have money problems, relationship problems, health problems, family problems, drug problems... yet manage not to kill their partner and children.

To cope, millions of men and women cheat on their partners. Have full blown affairs or just sleep around. Lie. Turn their backs on their families. Walk away. Bad mouth their exes. Get divorced.

I could excuse Chris for any of the above. But there is no justification for his actions. NONE.

If he really couldn’t handle whatever the pressure was, he should have topped himself.

Stop trying to find a way to suggest this was inevitable or that “you can see how it happened”.

One of the best post ever. You get a gold star post award. Your post is the best.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Fully!!!! How legitimate do you think TB is? Do you think his story adds up? The reason I ask is I have never been quite sure about the truth of that story, but I acknowledge that I haven't followed that story closely enough. I also saw some random FB post ages ago with a women claiming she had 'personal' contact with CW but couldnt say anymore. All signs of a narcissist regardless... totally out for himself.

I was dubious too. But, nothing would surprise me. This guy wiped out his whole family, he likely has a lot of secrets.

 

[PommyMommy]

Weld District Attorney’s Office says it will release autopsy reports in Watts case after sentencing
The Weld District Attorney’s Office on Wednesday confirmed it will release the autopsy reports for Shanann, Bella and Celeste Watts following a scheduled sentencing hearing for Christopher Watts, Shanann’s husband and father of the two girls, who has pleaded guilty to killing all three.

In an email sent Tuesday, Assistant Weld County Attorney Karin McDougal said the county would release the autopsy reports no more than 24 hours after the sentencing hearing is complete Nov. 19.

 

[MassGuy]

Weld District Attorney’s Office says it will release autopsy reports in Watts case after sentencing
The Weld District Attorney’s Office on Wednesday confirmed it will release the autopsy reports for Shanann, Bella and Celeste Watts following a scheduled sentencing hearing for Christopher Watts, Shanann’s husband and father of the two girls, who has pleaded guilty to killing all three.

In an email sent Tuesday, Assistant Weld County Attorney Karin McDougal said the county would release the autopsy reports no more than 24 hours after the sentencing hearing is complete Nov. 19.

“In an email sent Tuesday, Assistant Weld County Attorney Karin McDougal said the county would release the autopsy reports no more than 24 hours after the sentencing hearing is complete Nov. 19.”

Perfect!

 

[ReckoningDay]

Directed at the general apologists, no one in particular. But if you’re in this camp, there are plenty of places you can now go to chat. Not here.

Why are people still trying to somehow find some justification for these murders. I don’t care how much pressure they were under. I don’t care if Shanann travelled too much. Or spent too much money. Or Chris did. Or one of them hen-pecked the other.

MILLIONS of families are under pressure. Millions have money problems, relationship problems, health problems, family problems, drug problems... yet manage not to kill their partner and children.

To cope, millions of men and women cheat on their partners. Have full blown affairs or just sleep around. Lie. Turn their backs on their families. Walk away. Bad mouth their exes. Get divorced.

I could excuse Chris for any of the above. But there is no justification for his actions. NONE.

If he really couldn’t handle whatever the pressure was, he should have topped himself.

Stop trying to find a way to suggest this was inevitable or that “you can see how it happened”.

YES! Trophy post!

 

[Johnny1181]

Weld District Attorney’s Office says it will release autopsy reports in Watts case after sentencing
The Weld District Attorney’s Office on Wednesday confirmed it will release the autopsy reports for Shanann, Bella and Celeste Watts following a scheduled sentencing hearing for Christopher Watts, Shanann’s husband and father of the two girls, who has pleaded guilty to killing all three.

In an email sent Tuesday, Assistant Weld County Attorney Karin McDougal said the county would release the autopsy reports no more than 24 hours after the sentencing hearing is complete Nov. 19.

Thank you PommyMommy! You're always so on top of things, I appreciate it!

 

[Jo in Calif]

I don't think he strangled those babies, I think he suffocated them and I think the autopsy reports will show that.

 

[MassGuy]

I don't think he strangled those babies, I think he suffocated them and I think the autopsy reports will show that.

I think he strangled them. His lies were self serving, but not entirely unnecessary.

There would be no reason to lie about cause of death, as he could have claimed that SW suffocated the kids, just as easily as he could have said she strangled them.

The autopsy wouldn’t lie, and he would have known this.

 

[Thepoet]

Weld District Attorney’s Office says it will release autopsy reports in Watts case after sentencing
The Weld District Attorney’s Office on Wednesday confirmed it will release the autopsy reports for Shanann, Bella and Celeste Watts following a scheduled sentencing hearing for Christopher Watts, Shanann’s husband and father of the two girls, who has pleaded guilty to killing all three.

In an email sent Tuesday, Assistant Weld County Attorney Karin McDougal said the county would release the autopsy reports no more than 24 hours after the sentencing hearing is complete Nov. 19.

That's good news. Thanks. I hope it's more than the autopsy results! Document dump?