Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #47

[Thepoet]

If he walked into the courtroom to an empty gallery and was told no-one came because no-one cared, do you think he would be relieved or dismayed?

Relieved that no one was seeing what he had become, dismayed that no one cared!

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I think that's exactly it. To be so intent on making her look bad that one has to resort to being completely irrational is beyond my understanding. The only explanation that makes sense is that this perception is based on jealousy or a hatred towards the " type" of person they perceive her to be. I can't see any other reason for it. Although I have never read any of it myself, what I have heard seems so irrational. But I did see for myself the videos that were used as examples to "prove" Shanann was this horrible, controlling, even abusive wife, and it was just so far from reality that I just could not understand it. I found it very alarming and discouraging. I would like to think that this is just a small group compared to the majority and like you say, comes from an unhealthy mind.

I think you are spot on. Unfortunately there seem to be so many who fall into this category. Like you, I have only watched a few of the referenced videos and the described behavior was not there at all. I made the comment that it was not there and was answered by many with “it may not be in that one but look at more videos”. What??

 

[Thepoet]

Maybe relieved? I think he's more likely to feel embarrassment over remorse. I wager that's what the tears may have been about. As much as SW gets attacked for being all about appearances and trying to project a "perfect" life, I think HE is the one who did that. Although ego might get wounded over the idea of nobody caring, I think having to do all of this in front of the public may be one of his worst nightmares.

BINGO! I think you hit it squarely! I agree!

 

[NuttMegg]

Continuation of summary of the main points of the podcast: Tricia, liltexans, gitana1, Levi Page. Some but not all is verbatim.

T: Gitana, is that normal for a mom to want to get to her son, 33, and talk to him about the plea deal? Apparently, from what I understand, if I’m correct, the family did not talk to him at all while he was in jail. No phone calls, nothing. And so I’m assuming they were really surprised at the guilty plea, and his mother, according to the podcast, had tried to talk to him and she was told not to. I don’t know what’s going on here. Very puzzling. I don’t get it.

G1: I think it’s common for family members to want to be part of plea deals that involve their family but I think that demanding that they make decisions or convince their child one way or the other about a plea deal, I think that’s common with FAs and their families of origin and it kind of shows that dysfunction. My understanding, and I might be wrong, was that each family member, the parents and the sister, were allowed 30 minutes to have a discussion with Chris. I’m not positive whether that was before or after.

Lt: According to the woman on the Murder Rap Sesh podcast it was before the plea hearing the other day. And I agree with you. When I heard that I thought 30 minutes was plenty of time if you’re trying to talk your son off a ledge or out of doing something you don’t feel he should be doing. They also reported that in the courtroom, when everyone was in the courtroom, his mother, reportedly, according to this woman who was there, tried to say something aloud like, “Son, are you sure that you want to do this?”. And according to the woman in the podcast, she was chastised by the defence attorneys to sit down and stop talking.

G1: That does not surprise me. I actually made a post on WS about how I would think that the type of parents of FAs typically come from would be the type to yell out at a hearing. What I heard was that during the 30 minute discussion she started saying, “You can’t agree to this”. They were not allowed to have a discussion with him without defence counsel present is what I heard on the podcast. And they were very upset about that and the mother started saying, “You can’t do this” and the defence counsel, from what I heard, stated, “Listen, if you don’t stop this line of discussion, we’re going to end this and you’re not going to be able to talk to him anymore”. And my feeling, my instinct on this is he was fully on board with this but he was terrified of his family and their reaction. Listen, I can tell you there is no way that defence counsel was telling him, “You are not allowed to talk to them without us present”. There’s no way they were dictating the conditions of this plea to him. He is the one who had to direct that. I can envision him saying, “I’m gonna do this but I can’t face my family”. “Well, they’re gonna have questions”. “Okay. Well maybe I can face them if you’re there. Please don’t let them pressure me”. That’s exactly what I think was going on with that situation. The mother especially was very upset and wanted to control things. Her son didn’t do this and was not allowed to because defence counsel was protecting Chris and his rights to plead guilty.

To be cont’d

What an interesting page this was.

Thanks for the transcription. One thing I find hard to believe is that he didn't communicate with his family for the whole 3 months. He had visitors, or why would he try to suppress the visitors log. So, they didn't want to see him, or vice versa? My hinky meter is up on this, so the last time he spoke with a member of the family was at the police station?

 

[NuttMegg]

I miss that old WS emoji with the chin that drops to the floor. So this will have to do

I might have misunderstood part of that, apparently she tried to speak up with CW during the meeting with him, 30 minutes before trial, but the pds wouldn't let her say certain things, like trying to change his mind.

Evidently she didn't speak up during the hearing, I think I was wrong on that.

Also I am not clear if each family member got 30 minutes, or if they were together with him.

That MRS twitter page, thru the producer who managed to get in, made, IMO, quite a deal about the CW family being in tears, and the SW family not being in tears. It was only brief twitter posts, (link was here on the site on Tuesday) but the implication was there that only one family was suffering. But it only makes sense to me, absolute sense, the SW family has been dealing with the murders for 3 months, knowing in their hearts it was CW, yet his family appears to be coming to grips with it very late in the game, thru his confession. Thus more overt suffering.

 

[Tortoise]

If he walked into the courtroom to an empty gallery and was told no-one came because no-one cared, do you think he would be relieved or dismayed?

Relieved I think. ~I think he's probably retreated into a place in his mind where he does not wish to be scrutinized by anyone. He can remain an enigma. It's the only control he has left.

MOO

 

[NuttMegg]

I found the apologists phenomenon fascinating and bizarre. On SM there was speculation that maybe Chris was sexually abusing the girls and they went nuts-how can you suggest something so disgusting- he might have murdered them but he would never do anything like that- his moral standards are still held in high regard.

Unbelievable. But we know he only confessed to protect SW, so of course he is of high moral character.

 

[Tortoise]

I might have misunderstood part of that, apparently she tried to speak up with CW during the meeting with him, 30 minutes before trial, but the pds wouldn't let her say certain things, like trying to change his mind.

Evidently she didn't speak up during the hearing, I think I was wrong on that.

Also I am not clear if each family member got 30 minutes, or if they were together with him.

That MRS twitter page, thru the producer who managed to get in, made, IMO, quite a deal about the CW family being in tears, and the SW family not being in tears. It was only brief twitter posts, but the implication was there that only one family was suffering. But it only makes sense to me, absolute sense, the SW family has been dealing with the murders for 3 months, knowing in their hearts it was CW, yet his family appears to be coming to grips with it very late in the game, thru his confession. Thus more overt suffering.

I understood it that she did try to speak out during the hearing and the lawyers told her to...be quiet.

 

[NuttMegg]

Relieved I think. ~I think he's probably retreated into a place in his mind where he does not wish to be scrutinized by anyone. He can remain an enigma. It's the only control he has left.

MOO

Wow, so true and I never thought of it like that. That the only control is through being an enigma.

 

[NuttMegg]

I understood it that she did try to speak out during the hearing and the lawyers told her to...be quiet.

Ok thanks. I think I heard it 2 different ways.

 

[Colorado303]

I don't want to derail this thread since we have a thread for Laci and Conner. Essentially, there is a possibility that the conviction could be overturned due to the actions by one of the jurors when they went on their jury field trip to inspect/look at Scott's boat. Again, I don't know if the conviction will be overturned, and I certainly hope it won't, but his legal team is trying to get his conviction overturned. Maybe it won't be "soon", but anything would be too soon for me. He should never leave prison.

If a conviction is overturned, can the case be retried or does double jeopardy apply and he would be free as a bird?

 

[Colorado303]

Here's an old article about the SP jurors and the boat. The judge would not declare a mistrial at the time, but Scott's legal team and family are still appealing.

Peterson trial jury rocks the boat – East Bay Times

The third full day of deliberations began with a couple of jurors hopping inside Peterson’s fishing boat and rocking back and forth to test its stability, an action that incited defense attorney Mark Geragos to demand a mistrial.

“At least two of the jurors were rocking around, and when I say rocking, I mean rocking,” Geragos said in a brief hearing after the viewing of the boat. Geragos asked the judge to declare a mistrial or at least allow him to play for the jury a defense-produced video demonstration of the boat’s stability, previously barred as evidence. The defense contention is that the boat would have capsized if Scott Peterson, as prosecutors believe, had tried to dump his pregnant wife Laci’s 153-pound body into San Francisco Bay.

Judge Delucchi denied both requests.

During Monday’s viewing, Delucchi reminded the jury that the boat was not in the water, it was on a trailer, and that they should consider that fact in their deliberations.

Geragos said the jurors’ actions in the boat amounted to an “experiment,” which the law prohibits. They are to only use the evidence presented in court in their deliberations.

I remember hearing about this years ago. Why is it only coming up now as a possible reason to overturn the verdict?

 

[MsBetsy]

Wow, so true and I never thought of it like that. That the only control is through being an enigma.

If that's the case we may never know what truly happened that night. At least not from him. Maybe the autopsies will tell the story. Jmo

 

[Colorado303]

In less than two weeks, as well as CW’s sentencing, we should be discussing the autopsy reports. Because we have all come to know Shanann, Bella and CeCe by following this case, it will likely be difficult for many here to read the reports. We don’t know what they may reveal, and while personally, I don’t expect any big surprises, you never really know.

Nobody prepared me for the first autopsy report I read, and every one since then has been different - some of them easier than others. I think there may be a lot of questions, so I have put together some links I hope will be helpful. I am aware that we don’t know yet if the COD was strangulation, but I’m guessing that is what the reports will show. And, although the sample reports below involve victims of ligature strangulation, I don’t necessarily think a ligature was used.

@JudgeJudi has shared some good information regarding strangulation and can probably add to this list.

The Weld County Coroner’s website includes terms, definitions and frequently asked questions: Coroner - Weld County

Case report – A conflicting case of strangulation ***WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGES*** http://medind.nic.in/jal/t14/i3/jalt14i3p327.pdf

Example autopsy report 1 - JonBenet Ramsey, 6 yrs., ligature strangulation
https://forensicoutreach.com/library/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2016/06/JonBenét-Ramsey-autopsy-report.pdf

Example autopsy report 2 – Kristal Waterson, 26, ligature strangulation ***WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGES*** Evidence: Summary Autopsy Report

Death by Strangulation by Dr. Dean Hawley: http://www.markwynn.com/wp-content/uploads/death-by-strangulation.pdf

Article on forensic autopsy: Reviewing and Comprehending Autopsy Reports

Article on forensic pathology: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/medicine-and-dentistry/forensic-pathology

I’m also going to do a sort of robocall to some of our medical professionals to see who is willing to assist with questions once the autopsy reports are released:
@MementoMori, @Skigirl, @DrWatson, @Curiosum, @crasshopper, @Bill C, @DrWander, @texaswanderer, @AlwaysHopeToHelp, please let us know if we can tag you with questions once the autopsy reports are released! TIA
MOO

Pommy, you are AMAZING! Thank you.

 

[ZsaZsa]

You would not believe the reasons that his apologists have for dumping them in filthy crude oil.
He wanted to keep them warm!
He knew where they would be and could visit them any time.
Can you believe it?

We saw that on here too - maybe it was a 'symbolic burial' was one suggestion...

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Ok thanks. I think I heard it 2 different ways.

From listening to the Murder Rap Sesh episodes about the court appearance, it seems CW's mother tried to speak to him about whether he really wanted to take the plea during their meeting beforehand, rather than in open court. And his lawyers shut her down. (I would go back and relisten to double-check that but once was bad enough... I barely got through them. Their sympathy for CW is palpable throughout.)

 

[sun16]

I don’t trust CW’s parents. I felt the same way about Scott P’s mom. Blood is thicker than anything when it comes to stuff like this—even murder. And everyone is out for themself.

 

[Tortoise]

From listening to the Murder Rap Sesh episodes about the court appearance, it seems CW's mother tried to speak to him about whether he really wanted to take the plea during their meeting beforehand, rather than in open court. And his lawyers shut her down. (I would go back and relisten to double-check that but once was bad enough... I barely got through them. Their sympathy for CW is palpable throughout.)

Their rep in court wouldn't have seen that though. Wonder how they got the info.

 

[Mo Thuairim]

Their rep in court wouldn't have seen that though. Wonder how they got the info.

They seem to talk to people close to the Watts family off the record. The hosts are definitely supportive of CW so I suppose that's why they get the inside scoop (assuming that detail is true)

 

[Tortoise]

I don’t trust CW’s parents. I felt the same way about Scott P’s mom. Blood is thicker than anything when it comes to stuff like this—even murder. And everyone is out for themself.

One particularly unbelievable case is that of Christopher Panayiotou who paid street criminals to murder his wife Jayde and make it look like a mugging gone bad. We have a thread for it. The police had video evidence (a bugging device with audio and visual) of him sitting in a car with the guy he paid, a few days after the murder, telling him off for not taking her rings and now it looked like it wasn't a mugging. His parents will not accept his conviction and continue to believe in his innocence, funding an appeal. It's like they wouldn't watch the video, or something. They also behaved appallingly towards Jayde's family in the court. He was also carrying on a love affair and wanted his wife out of the picture.