Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #47

[MassGuy]

I feel the same. Had there been any evidence against her, I would understand the discussion and expect it. To just take the word of a confessed killer, never made sense to me.

Exactly. In a normal case you have two options, the suspect did it, or someone else did.

Here, we had a suspect who had a mountain of evidence on top of him.

The only alternative was to ignore the evidence, and blame the victim, based solely on the word of a self admitted liar.

It’s one thing if there is evidence to support his claims, but there was none.

 

[MassGuy]

There's a level of sexism and self-loathing coming from the people, all women that I witnessed, that were determined to slander and fabricate scenarios based on the words of an admitted killer. (He always admitted to having killed SW and Nico so why they thought him incapable of killing Bella and Cece is beyond me.) It's a reality in our world but this case really brought it to the forefront. Why do certain women feel compelled to believe a murderous male over an innocent female victim? I realized for some there's an element of fear in these cases because admitting that SW was just a regular, working mom trying to make a better life for her girls and family whose husband decided to slay them all opens up the reality that it could happen to them also. Yet this goes beyond that need to separate yourself. The number and level of openly venomous remarks was just appalling.

Absolutely agree.

It’s normal human behavior to try and convince ourselves that something horrible couldn’t happen to us. In a case like this, people look for faults in the victim, and mistakes they made.

“I know better than to do that.”

This is understandable, and we all do it in various situations, as it makes us feel safer.

But that should be where it ends.

There’s no need to destroy the victim so that we can feel better about ourselves. Picking at perceived faults in others isn’t a productive, healthy, or kind thing to do.

 

[scandinavian girl]

I know I started the nut incident again, but that have been on my mind all along. I had a co worker who was extremely allergic to specific flowers, they were not allowed at work. One time we had a staff christmas dinner at a hotel and our boss called the hotel to make sure the red christmas flower were removed ( I have no idea what they are called in english). We went there and they forgot to take away one of those flowers. My co worker had an immidiate reaction with cardiac arrest, ambulance and resuscitation on hotel floor .

Thankfully she survived and after that I always ask a person if they have a epi pen if they say they have allergies just to be prepared if we are going to hang out. It was scary.

 

[molly1255]

Yup...”and now look at what that little witch made him do, my boy was perfectly fine until SHE came along...” that history sure does likes repeating itself!

That "nut" story and how it was being used after she she was murdered was very telling of what she was dealing with there, IMO.

What does the "SP" in SP mom stand for?

 

[cailleach]

Nut allergies are pretty common nowadays. Just last year one of my coworkers disclosed his allergy around the holidays when I was baking and asking about allergies and preferences. I was glad I had gone around and asked before bringing in goods so I could make sure the things given to him weren't exposed to nuts/nut dust at any point.

 

[MassGuy]

That "nut" story and how it was being used after she she was murdered was very telling of what she was dealing with there, IMO.

What does the "SP" in SP mom stand for?

Scott Peterson.

 

[Charlot123]

Yup. How ironic.

Support is fine. Support is understandable.
But I draw the line when anything is said or implied that impugns Shanann’s character.

The main thing is done. She is innocent. Chris Watts said it. No "alternative versions" anymore.

About discussions of Shanann character. This will happen. Give or take, Shanann trusted CW, wanted to have one more kid with him, and ended up dead and in a shallow grave. Her two daughters dead, too. So she made at least one huge mistake, and missed something. And now we already have Chris Watts, Scott Peterson, and several more. And all these young vibrant women dead because they trusted their spouses. How do we avoid similar scenarios in the future?

There will be books, attempts to understand the dynamic of the family, comparisons between Chris Watts and Scott Peterson will be drawn for sure. Some of Shanann's mistakes will be discussed, if only in the context of certain warning signs that she might have missed.

And possibly, what other people might have done differently will be discussed, too. I am asking myself, is it possible that some of SW's friends might have guessed about AP, ran into her and CW, since it all happened in such a small area? But no one warned SW. It is the norm; we consider it "not our business". Would this story have a different ending if Shanann was told about the AP?

So there will be more information and discussions. It is inevitable.

 

[JEM1975]

I mentioned this before in one of the 47+ threads but I did the same thing. To convince my (ex) husband that I loved him. I praised him all the time. It’s a form of emotional abuse.

I agree. I did that too for 20 years with my ex-husband. He was so threatened by me having success, friendships, or even just me feeling good about myself. He would make comments like I thought I was so great, or that I was always trying to look nice for other people or that I shouldn't take my job so seriously because I was replaceable. I found myself constantly praising him in private and in public and I actually became very self deprecating. I realize now that he felt threatened but his wife possibly thinking she was better than him or that I could possibly think I could leave. My praising him on some level was to build him up but also somewhat to convince myself that what I said was true, that he was a good dad, etc. The truth is, he was not a good dad, not a good husband, not a good provider but I had spent 20 years and had 2 kids with him and by that time I believed I was pretty worthless and yet I kept chasing him, trying to make him feel like he was the man of the house. His plan worked for 20 years until one day, one final act of complete disrespect and meanness pushed me to the
point where I knew it was time to go. Luckily nothing happened and I was able to leave. Now i'm happily married to my very best friend!

I also deal with similar medical issues and I know that at the beginning when they are there to take care of you and love you and help you, it builds them up. But when you're feeling good it changes the dynamic. I always felt my ex husband liked me the best when I was sick because it fed his ego and made me less than him in his eyes. It made me the broken one.

Maybe Shanann was at that point too. Maybe she was tired of the subtle abuse, possible affairs she knew about, the always having to try to build him up and hold herself down. I stayed for my kids but in reality, they are 18 and 24 and it did more damage to them by me staying. Maybe Shanann realized she needed to do something better for her kids and was working on a plan to do that. In my opinion she was a wonderful mommy, a gracious wife and the kind of friend that comes along only once in a lifetime! To be honest, and it sounds silly, but I've been grieving the fact that I won't ever get to know her or her beautiful babies. Her friend NUA is so sweet and caring just like Shanann Like Johnny says, it reminds me to Shine like Shanann because not only will we feel better about ourselves but because we can bring love and joy to our kids, spouse, friends, families and the world in which we live! She did that and watching her videos is inspiring to me! I hope that people will be inspired by her! I'm so devastated by this horrible, senseless tragedy and I hope we all live our lives just a little differently, maybe we color with our little ones 10 minutes longer and enjoy it, smile at a stranger, take your spouse on a date. Shanann seemed to have had a beautiful heart and when it is my time to go to Heaven, I hope that's the impact I make too. I truly hope she knows that her legacy is living on in all of us who are touched by her and her precious little ones

 

[cailleach]

The main thing is done. She is innocent. Chris Watts said it. No "alternative versions" anymore.

About discussions of Shanann character. This will happen. Give or take, Shanann trusted CW, wanted to have one more kid with him, and ended up dead and in a shallow grave. Her two daughters dead, too. So she made at least one huge mistake, and missed something. And now we already have Chris Watts, Scott Peterson, and several more. And all these young vibrant women dead because they trusted their spouses. How do we avoid similar scenarios in the future?

There will be books, attempts to understand the dynamic of the family, comparisons between Chris Watts and Scott Peterson will be drawn for sure. Some of Shanann's mistakes will be discussed, if only in the context of certain warning signs that she might have missed.

And possibly, what other people might have done differently will be discussed, too. I am asking myself, is it possible that some of SW's friends might have guessed about AP, ran into her and CW, since it all happened in such a small area? But no one warned SW. It is the norm; we consider it "not our business". Would this story have a different ending if Shanann was told about the AP?

So there will be more information and discussions. It is inevitable.

There's a big difference between analyzing how women might better recognize red flags for sociopaths and other personality disorders and the really nasty, baseless things that were said about SW here.

 

[Jennifer17]

There's a big difference between analyzing how women might better recognize red flags for sociopaths and other personality disorders and the really nasty, baseless things that were said about SW here.

And still being said, but thankfully, not here.

 

[molly1255]

Scott Peterson.

Ah ha - thank you for clarifying!

 

[katydid23]

I agree. I did that too for 20 years with my ex-husband. He was so threatened by me having success, friendships, or even just me feeling good about myself. He would make comments like I thought I was so great, or that I was always trying to look nice for other people or that I shouldn't take my job so seriously because I was replaceable. I found myself constantly praising him in private and in public and I actually became very self deprecating. I realize now that he felt threatened but his wife possibly thinking she was better than him or that I could possibly think I could leave. My praising him on some level was to build him up but also somewhat to convince myself that what I said was true, that he was a good dad, etc. The truth is, he was not a good dad, not a good husband, not a good provider but I had spent 20 years and had 2 kids with him and by that time I believed I was pretty worthless and yet I kept chasing him, trying to make him feel like he was the man of the house. His plan worked for 20 years until one day, one final act of complete disrespect and meanness pushed me to the
point where I knew it was time to go. Luckily nothing happened and I was able to leave. Now i'm happily married to my very best friend!

I also deal with similar medical issues and I know that at the beginning when they are there to take care of you and love you and help you, it builds them up. But when you're feeling good it changes the dynamic. I always felt my ex husband liked me the best when I was sick because it fed his ego and made me less than him in his eyes. It made me the broken one.

Maybe Shanann was at that point too. Maybe she was tired of the subtle abuse, possible affairs she knew about, the always having to try to build him up and hold herself down. I stayed for my kids but in reality, they are 18 and 24 and it did more damage to them by me staying. Maybe Shanann realized she needed to do something better for her kids and was working on a plan to do that. In my opinion she was a wonderful mommy, a gracious wife and the kind of friend that comes along only once in a lifetime! To be honest, and it sounds silly, but I've been grieving the fact that I won't ever get to know her or her beautiful babies. Her friend NUA is so sweet and caring just like Shanann Like Johnny says, it reminds me to Shine like Shanann because not only will we feel better about ourselves but because we can bring love and joy to our kids, spouse, friends, families and the world in which we live! She did that and watching her videos is inspiring to me! I hope that people will be inspired by her! I'm so devastated by this horrible, senseless tragedy and I hope we all live our lives just a little differently, maybe we color with our little ones 10 minutes longer and enjoy it, smile at a stranger, take your spouse on a date. Shanann seemed to have had a beautiful heart and when it is my time to go to Heaven, I hope that's the impact I make too. I truly hope she knows that her legacy is living on in all of us who are touched by her and her precious little ones

Great, well thought out post. Thank you.

I agree with your point about men sometimes being attracted to a woman in distress, who needs him, and is vulnerable. Her being ill, and having a medical crisis, when he began pursuing her romantically, is probably not a coincidence.

And I agree with you that it might have been distressing for him, when she got her strength back and began feeling powerful and successful. A healthy, balanced, sane man, who loved her, would be thrilled that she was doing so well. But in his case, he seemed bothered by it.

I have also wondered if he was 'jealous' of her close bond with the babies. I've seen that before, where Dad gets jealous of all the time and attention and love the wife gives to the children. They can become petty and resentful. Women can do the same, it is not a gender specific response.

 

[Layla123]

This is good! I miss Nancy Grace. “Chris Watts will have a new story to tell at a dinner table with Satan!” New info also, that I think we can trust, Shanann made $80,000 per year. That’s a lot. She was doing very well. Bonus Episode: Colorado dad Chris Watts admits killing his pregnant wife & daughters from Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

 

[molly1255]

There's a level of sexism and self-loathing coming from the people, all women that I witnessed, that were determined to slander and fabricate scenarios based on the words of an admitted killer. (He always admitted to having killed SW and Nico so why they thought him incapable of killing Bella and Cece is beyond me.) It's a reality in our world but this case really brought it to the forefront. Why do certain women feel compelled to believe a murderous male over an innocent female victim? I realized for some there's an element of fear in these cases because admitting that SW was just a regular, working mom trying to make a better life for her girls and family whose husband decided to slay them all opens up the reality that it could happen to them also. Yet this goes beyond that need to separate yourself. The number and level of openly venomous remarks was just appalling.

I absolutely agree. To me, it seems there was a hit-brigade who went after Shanann's character, and it was very personal and hateful, and that hit-brigade managed to quickly influence others, who appeared to be almost all women, and it was all over the Internet.

The vast majority of them never even knew Shanann. Why anyone would feed into the attempted annihilation of the character of a woman who was murdered, and who had lost absolutely everything, her life, her babies, and all of her hopes and dreams, to try to back up the self-serving, vicious lie of a proven liar and admitted killer is something that for me, is hard to comprehend. It made me lose some faith in mankind, or rather womankind.

I think it's a combination of sexism, self-loathing, and also some very toxic jealousy that was directed at a beautiful young women and mother who doing everything she could to make the dreams she had for her family come true.

The DA and those who assisted in the process, handled this in the best way possible, IMO. I'm paraphrasing what the DA said in the press conference, but CW's admission of guilt to all charges, shined the spotlight he tried to put on Shanann with his lie right back on CW, where it always belonged.

JMO

 

[Tortoise]

How would that relate to a pretrial motion?

Well I'm totally using my imagination here so this is purely a 'what if', but counsellor's notes could indicate something like Shan'ann losing it with him during a session, or telling him he won't have child custody, if she hears of his affair/s for instance, to substantiate his claim at that time that she killed the girls in rage. It would be reasonable to assume she would be furious at him cheating and agreeing to have a third baby.

I guess I'm not sure what a pretrial motion is. I thought this was just a sealed filing of private health records related to his defence.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Sorry I had not seen this when I asked the question. So the grandmother gave the other kids ice cream and gave nothing to the other two and Shanann later complained about it? That was what the big deal was?!

Only Celest did not get anything, according to SW, the MIL said she needed to learn she did not get everything she wanted. Cruel was an over statement but I spoil my grands and I see them every week. . I don’t understand acting that way especially if you have limited time with your grandchildren unless she had a beef with SW.

 

[molly1255]

The main thing is done. She is innocent. Chris Watts said it. No "alternative versions" anymore.

About discussions of Shanann character. This will happen. Give or take, Shanann trusted CW, wanted to have one more kid with him, and ended up dead and in a shallow grave. Her two daughters dead, too. So she made at least one huge mistake, and missed something. And now we already have Chris Watts, Scott Peterson, and several more. And all these young vibrant women dead because they trusted their spouses. How do we avoid similar scenarios in the future?

There will be books, attempts to understand the dynamic of the family, comparisons between Chris Watts and Scott Peterson will be drawn for sure. Some of Shanann's mistakes will be discussed, if only in the context of certain warning signs that she might have missed.

And possibly, what other people might have done differently will be discussed, too. I am asking myself, is it possible that some of SW's friends might have guessed about AP, ran into her and CW, since it all happened in such a small area? But no one warned SW. It is the norm; we consider it "not our business". Would this story have a different ending if Shanann was told about the AP?

So there will be more information and discussions. It is inevitable.

My observation has been that Shanann's friends were her friends, and were very loyal to her and looked at her as more of a sister than a friend. It appears to me that CW was accepted as Shanann's husband. I believe her friends would have told her.

I'm not sure if the AP was important to him. He may have been a Cluster B serial cheater who told an AP a bunch of lies to get her to engage with him. One thing I've considered is that he may have been very preoccupied trying to diffuse an angry AP and his house of cards may have been caving in on him. IDK.

He's seen in a photo taken in Myrtle Beach with Shanann, the girls and SW's dad and her dad looks happy in the picture. That picture was taken the last week SW was in NC. My thoughts are if CW was trying to talk Shanann into a separation when he was down there, wouldn't her father be looking upon CW with some incredible contempt for wanting to separate from his pregnant daughter? I think it is possible that CW may have been trying to try to talk SW out of a separation.

Yet we know a woman who worked with SW's mother reported there were marital problems and separation was being discussed.

I'm hopeful we will find out what really happened in the weeks before he murdered them. He may have wanted out, she may have wanted out, or they may have agreed to attempt a reconciliation.

I believe there is something really missing in CW in that he's shown no signs of remorse, empathy or conscience. I think any scenario is possible.

All JMO.

 

[Only4Justice]

I do care where he disposed of them. Not enough that he sees fit to end their lives, he then has to strip every bit of dignity from them in death. He may have stopped being human when they died, but they did not.

Me too. I can’t get past the way he disposed of them. A jury wouldn’t be able to either IMO

 

[Mellowmelly]

.

Me too. I can’t get past the way he disposed of them. A jury wouldn’t be able to either IMO

Exactly, even if he had murdered them because he lost his temper and lashed out, by the time he came to hide their bodies, guilt, grief and remorse would have set in. He wouldn’t have been able to place their little bodies in a crude oil tank if he felt one tiny bit of either of the above. He had no guilt or remorse because he planned their Murders and felt no love for them.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Excellent point! I remain distressed over the sheer number of women, not men, who so easily can tear SW to shreds out there. It is sobering and very sad to me.

While it may offend some, keep in mind relationships are never simple. And I’m defending no one.

But unless there is at some point an unbiased professional analysis of the Watts marriage, I think theses a lot we will never know and understand.

And I believe that unless a person is defending themselves in a life threatening situation. No one has the right to kill. And there is no possible justification for killing children ever.

Did CW exhibit signs of mental illness as a child or adult?

Was he the personality type to be attracted to a dominant wife?

What attracted him to his affair partner(s)?

Was he demeaned by his wife’s profession?

Was her job really profitable, or as some have inferred the bottom line was very red? Did Shannan make money or was it a drain on CW salary? ( I’ve seen comments that while rewards were nice, that it required excessive investments for inventories and incentives for lower tier associates).

Did the Watts live above their means??