Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #47

[NuttMegg]

Prior to CW's guilty plea I was open to the idea that he was telling the truth. I was 99% sure he was responsible, but I was still open to it until I had more information. Now that he's plead guilty I'm completely embarrassed and to be honest, I'm not sure I'll ever be so open to other possibilities again. Has anyone else followed a thread and gone down this road before?

Jvds

 

[Zella]

His description of Bella and Celeste and their personalities in relation to himself and Shanann has always sat wrong with me, and it being the mention of Celeste that set him off in tears kind of solidified my feelings. I'm not sure if I can describe this well, but I'm going to try.

He said:

'Celeste, she’s just a bubble of energy, she’s called rampage because she’s like… she’s always… it’s… she’s got two speeds - go or she’s sleeping and she’s always a troublemaker, she’s always the one jumping off things, you know, and she’s yelling at you and all kind of things. Bella she’s the more calm, cautious, mothering type and she’s… she’s more like me, she’s more calm, she’s… but Celeste has definitely got her mom’s personality where she’s always hung-ho ready to go.'

The things he initially says about Celeste sound... less than complimentary, and when you add that at the end he says she has her mom's personality, it sounds like victim blaming. She's a troublemaker, she's yelling and all kind of things. 'She's always gung ho and ready to go' definitely sounds like a quality Celeste has received from Shanann... but I think the 'rampage', the troublemaker and the yelling... are all CW.

Bella being the more calm, the more mothering type, more like HIM? Nope. I'm not buying it. I do not and cannot buy that he was the mother in this family.

I think the descriptions of the girls may be fairly accurate (but more in the sense of feisty vs. structured), but he is distributing their qualities in a manner that makes him look like the good guy. Don't look at CW for this, for he is the voice of reason, the calm in a storm. Pfft.

He used 63 words to describe Celeste. He used 18 to describe Bella. For what that's worth.

Rampage vs. Mothering.

If we had to pick, who do you think he identified with more strongly?

That's a really interesting point! You might be on to something!

 

[cattlekate]

I want to see this family’s financials, at it may explain a lot.

 

[Coolmomof4]

His description of Bella and Celeste and their personalities in relation to himself and Shanann has always sat wrong with me, and it being the mention of Celeste that set him off in tears kind of solidified my feelings. I'm not sure if I can describe this well, but I'm going to try.

He said:

'Celeste, she’s just a bubble of energy, she’s called rampage because she’s like… she’s always… it’s… she’s got two speeds - go or she’s sleeping and she’s always a troublemaker, she’s always the one jumping off things, you know, and she’s yelling at you and all kind of things. Bella she’s the more calm, cautious, mothering type and she’s… she’s more like me, she’s more calm, she’s… but Celeste has definitely got her mom’s personality where she’s always hung-ho ready to go.'

The things he initially says about Celeste sound... less than complimentary, and when you add that at the end he says she has her mom's personality, it sounds like victim blaming. She's a troublemaker, she's yelling and all kind of things. 'She's always gung ho and ready to go' definitely sounds like a quality Celeste has received from Shanann... but I think the 'rampage', the troublemaker and the yelling... are all CW.

Bella being the more calm, the more mothering type, more like HIM? Nope. I'm not buying it. I do not and cannot buy that he was the mother in this family.

I think the descriptions of the girls may be fairly accurate (but more in the sense of feisty vs. structured), but he is distributing their qualities in a manner that makes him look like the good guy. Don't look at CW for this, for he is the voice of reason, the calm in a storm. Pfft.

He used 63 words to describe Celeste. He used 18 to describe Bella. For what that's worth.

Rampage vs. Mothering.

If we had to pick, who do you think he identified with more strongly?

Great post! And I agree.

 

[Serena Angelique]

His description of Bella and Celeste and their personalities in relation to himself and Shanann has always sat wrong with me, and it being the mention of Celeste that set him off in tears kind of solidified my feelings. I'm not sure if I can describe this well, but I'm going to try.

He said:

'Celeste, she’s just a bubble of energy, she’s called rampage because she’s like… she’s always… it’s… she’s got two speeds - go or she’s sleeping and she’s always a troublemaker, she’s always the one jumping off things, you know, and she’s yelling at you and all kind of things. Bella she’s the more calm, cautious, mothering type and she’s… she’s more like me, she’s more calm, she’s… but Celeste has definitely got her mom’s personality where she’s always hung-ho ready to go.'

The things he initially says about Celeste sound... less than complimentary, and when you add that at the end he says she has her mom's personality, it sounds like victim blaming. She's a troublemaker, she's yelling and all kind of things. 'She's always gung ho and ready to go' definitely sounds like a quality Celeste has received from Shanann... but I think the 'rampage', the troublemaker and the yelling... are all CW.

Bella being the more calm, the more mothering type, more like HIM? Nope. I'm not buying it. I do not and cannot buy that he was the mother in this family.

I think the descriptions of the girls may be fairly accurate (but more in the sense of feisty vs. structured), but he is distributing their qualities in a manner that makes him look like the good guy. Don't look at CW for this, for he is the voice of reason, the calm in a storm. Pfft.

He used 63 words to describe Celeste. He used 18 to describe Bella. For what that's worth.

Rampage vs. Mothering.

If we had to pick, who do you think he identified with more strongly?

His whole description of them seems forced and unnatural. That’s why it’s so awkward. He’s trying not to trip things up but he’s not describing children he wants back. He’s rambling incoherently, providing little snippets here and there designed to make him seem like he’s a caring “normal” dad. He knows what he thinks nobody else suspects and he’s acting, but he’s a very bad actor.

And yes-I think identifying with Bella as “calm and mothering” while juxtaposing that with the “yelling, like mom troublemaker” is revealing and also designed to evoke sympathy for him as a patient nurturer opposed to a loud and difficult Shan’ann whom he rarely mentions by name. It’s probable that he identified with Bella more but I also think she arrived at a point in their marriage when things were better and he was more emotionally invested. SW often complained about Celeste’s precocious and unyielding personality but I feel it was in jest. She often would exclaim “my kids are CRAZY” and laugh about it, but it was also said with love and the mock exasperation of a harried housewife.

I think when CW did these interviews he hated/resented SW and I also think he failed to think of the girls as anything more than extensions of her. They were “her people” and he failed to bring up anything about either of them that seems authentic or that reveals parental love and concern.

I wonder if he still has a family picture tacked up in his cell or if that was for show all along. Am guessing he doesn’t need to try to impress anyone with phony devotion after this week. He’d better keep that bible around though.

 

[kaykay543]

Awww....thank you! It was a bumpy path

I sincerely wonder how you (and others) could think even for a second he could be telling the truth? What was it that made you open to the idea? I am not at all being sarcastic or anything else.

To ME he was so insincere in the TV interviews. He did not at all act like a man going crazy trying to find his family. The smiling, laughing and preening for the cameras? And then when all the bodies were found; and he admitted he put the girls in the tanks--how could you think for one second he didn't kill them?

Knowing all the lies he told in the interviews; how could you think that his story about SW could be true?

I am fascinated how people could ever believe his story about SW or even be "open" to it.

 

[MsBetsy]

I get what you're saying. And he knew his children were dead and in an oil tank, yet he was basically criticizing Celeste. Even after they were gone he seemed to find it difficult to be positive about her. "Rampage" and "troublemaker" are not particularly good descriptions of a daughter who your wife just murdered the night before. It was definitely off.

I think he said that to point out his wife's flaws, hinting that she had a temper as opposed to himself, the calmer, more nurturing one. Jmo

 

[Zella]

His whole description of them seems forced and unnatural. That’s why it’s so awkward. He’s trying not to trip things up but he’s not describing children he wants back. He’s rambling incoherently, providing little snippets here and there designed to make him seem like he’s a caring “normal” dad. He knows what he thinks nobody else suspects and he’s acting, but he’s a very bad actor.

BBM SBM
His whole spiel about missing telling them to eat their dinner really raised my eyebrows. I don't have children, so maybe I'm wrong, but that just seemed like such an odd thing to go on and on about.

I think when CW did these interviews he hated/resented SW and I also think he failed to think of the girls as anything more than extensions of her. They were “her people” and he failed to bring up anything about either of them that seems authentic or that reveals parental love and concern.

BBM SBM
Spot on.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I sincerely wonder how you (and others) could think even for a second he could be telling the truth? What was it that made you open to the idea? I am not at all being sarcastic or anything else.

To ME he was so insincere in the TV interviews. He did not at all act like a man going crazy trying to find his family. The smiling, laughing and preening for the cameras? And then when all the bodies were found; and he admitted he put the girls in the tanks--how could you think for one second he didn't kill them?

Knowing all the lies he told in the interviews; how could you think that his story about SW could be true?

I am fascinated how people could ever believe his story about SW or even be "open" to it.

I thought there was maybe a 1% chance and I wanted more info before I completely jumped off the fence. Water under the bridge now

 

[idfinch]

I think when CW did these interviews he hated/resented SW and I also think he failed to think of the girls as anything more than extensions of her. They were “her people” and he failed to bring up anything about either of them that seems authentic or that reveals parental love and concern.

I wonder if he still has a family picture tacked up in his cell or if that was for show all along. Am guessing he doesn’t need to try to impress anyone with phony devotion after this week. He’d better keep that bible around though.

SBM. I agree completely, this is really insightful and probably very accurate.

I just watched a video of the father of one of the Thousand Oaks shooting victims. He had been standing outside all night waiting for word and just found out his son had died. The contrast between CW's flat affect and smiling face, and this poor man who was gut-wrenchingly sobbing not knowing how to even begin to process his loss was staggering.

There's no way anyone with any love or attachment to his children could behave the way he did after murdering both of his tiny daughters and shoving them in crude oil tanks. JMO.

As a side note, I never thought he had a photo of Shanann and the girls in his cell. I assumed that was just info from a "source close to CW" to make things look good.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Jvds

What's jvds mean? TIA

 

[Kadoober]

I think he said that to point out his wife's flaws, hinting that she had a temper as opposed to himself, the calmer, more nurturing one. Jmo

I do too. I also think he was about to say, about Bella, that 'she's more like Shanann', and realized on the fly that this would imply that the child he just called 'rampage' would be more like him. So he stumbled over it, and said that 'she's more like me'.

It pisses me off to think about, because it reminds me of my nieces. They are 6 and 3. The older is so much like her mother in personality - she is super organized, structured and thoughtful, darn near all the time. The 3 year old is a maniac. She's the one that looks you right in the eye while doing the thing you just told her not to do. The one that sneaks candy, but is already learning to read. That breaks into the weirdest toddler dances you have ever seen for no reason whatsoever. She's my spirit animal, and I am so sorry for my poor sister when she gets to her teenage years. The older will be the one that will come home 15 minutes early. The little one will roll in 15 minutes late, and then sneak out the window. I know it, because I can smell my own.
I'm rambling, but my point is - I'm darn proud to identify with the wild one.

Then again.... I didn't murder my family and go on TV trying to look nice, so....

 

[Kadoober]

What's jvds mean? TIA

I think Joran VanDerSloot

 

[Deleted member 134862]

I did play around with the idea of his story being true. Some people laugh out of nervousness. I am one who is prone to inappropriate laughter. I know people who sway and wrap their arms around themselves when they do public speaking engagements because they just don't like to be on the spot like that. I tried looking at that interview through a different lens, tried seeing it as someone who was nervous, worried, and bemused by the attention he was getting.

But yeah. It still wasn't working for me. Out of context of everything else, I could explain some of the behavior in that interview but when taken in context with everything else, it wasn't something I could ignore. It wasn't just his behavior, but his words in general. He stumbled over them. The way he kept repeating the whole "are they safe" thing eventually became nonsensical. And that was just the tip of the iceberg.

I really thought in interview prior to knowing she was dead, it could be nervous laughter. I also think that "at the time" he was pulling off a "she left with the kids and I don't know where she went", so one would not be full throttle into anguish because...well, she is alive guys, just escaping the husband. (So I could see how he acted like that, so it was not a deal cincher at all to me). But once he confessed to killing Shanaan there is NO WAY you could look at that interview and make sense that he witnessed a horrifying killing but was so casual about the missing girls. Through that lens, I just do not see where he would ever sway a jury. But gosh I have been wrong before.
I also don't fault people who wondered about Shanaan and her history. I did it myself. People are not good and evil even when one is mostly good and the other is mostly evil. There are some dynamics at play. I wonder now if she was just totally clueless as to it happening because he was that good a liar. I am sure his motivation involved his mistress in all probability, but enough to be 100% it? I look forward to getting a better explanation.

 

[NuttMegg]

What's jvds mean? TIA

joran van der sloot. I was on the wrong side, partly.

Tippy don't feel funny about having your eyes suddenly opened, you've consistently been a polite poster and i like your cute blue bird avatar. People were hated on the jvds threads, but on wilder boards than ws.

 

[tmar]

Welcome Utsarah, copied from last thread.
Your first post.

"I have been a lurker for a long time on this site.

I am glad to see this plea deal and the family sparred the agony of a trial.

I keep thinking about the family members of the victims, and even CW. They all are facing their first major holidays without their loved ones. Thanksgiving is a few weeks away, and there will be an entire family not there anymore. I can't even image what Christmas will be like for them. I hope that CW's confession and deal will ultimately help them as they navigate their profound grief this holiday season. I know I will be thinking about them often".

It is getting through the many 'festive seasons' without these beautiful girls that will be so distressing.
In time, as a Poster had recently stated, the families minds will be filled with all the lovely memories, and these hard times, are lessened.
These videos, photos, that many here criticized will be an addition, to wonderful memories.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

I want to see this family’s financials, at it may explain a lot.

I don’t think anything can explain premeditatedly killing your children in cold blood. There is not any situation or conflict in normal people that can flip that switch.

 

[Serena Angelique]

I sincerely wonder how you (and others) could think even for a second he could be telling the truth? What was it that made you open to the idea? I am not at all being sarcastic or anything else.

To ME he was so insincere in the TV interviews. He did not at all act like a man going crazy trying to find his family. The smiling, laughing and preening for the cameras? And then when all the bodies were found; and he admitted he put the girls in the tanks--how could you think for one second he didn't kill them?

Knowing all the lies he told in the interviews; how could you think that his story about SW could be true?

I am fascinated how people could ever believe his story about SW or even be "open" to it.

I was fascinated by the people willing to “wait for more facts” myself, when it seemed to me there were plenty of facts to go with. However, SEVERAL people entertained the possibility that he was telling the truth and I’ve pondered over why that is myself and will offer my opinion (which may be flawed).

I think it’s partly because SW put out so many of the THRIVE videos and people watched them and looked for clues in them. I think familiarity bred contempt for some people -and there were so many of those videos (that had never been intended for the public at large to dissect) that they became a red herring.

Personally the videos seemed to me to prove her innocence more than point to possible guilt. She sort of wears her heart on her sleeve in them to me. I saw a very ebullient lady who was trying to market the hell out of a dubious product but others seemed to view them differently. They may have fostered shadenfreude and there was a kind of herd mentality that followed when people viewed them en masse. The videos also presented a story of contentment and happiness-but how could that REALLY be true if her husband killed all of them? And when he showed up in them, he looked benign and not like we envision killer dads or spouses to look.

On the other hand, there wasn’t much info on Chris Watts to look through. We only had her take on Chris’ personality which was glaringly unreliable in wake of the things he had done. So perhaps her own gushing reverence of him called her credibility into question.

I never wavered for a second when it came to believing in his guilt, but I think the main reason that made people give him the benefit of the doubt was simply subconscious fear. People don’t like to believe that a seemingly normal, family man can snap so abruptly and with such little forewarning. If Chris Watts was capable of that, who isn’t? It doesn’t make logical sense and in order for people to accept that such a tragedy had happened, they wanted to find a place to assign blame. The wife was the natural culprit. It is pretty common for people to do this-I’ve seen it happen before in many cases where the husband has killed his wife and/or kids. However, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a victim get so much slack as I’ve seen heaped upon SW in the past few months.

I thought it was cut and dry from the moment their bodies were recovered but this wasn’t the case for many people. That’s why it’s such a relief that he’s plead guilty. Yet still there are many die hard CW supporters who refuse to believe it, even AFTER he’s purportedly come clean! They feel he was railroaded into a plea deal and that he is still innocent of killing the girls. These people really want to believe him because they’ve invested a lot of time defending him. They are disappointed that the defense will never be given a chance to pick the videos apart and they keep pointing to those absurd videos when the most telling videos of all are the 3 where be spoke to the press.

It proves that some people are far more committed to what they want to believe to be the truth than reality. JMO

 

[Thepoet]

I thought there was maybe a 1% chance and I wanted more info before I completely jumped off the fence. Water under the bridge now

Water under the bridge and it's a new day. Time for all of us to move on. Hang in there.

 

[Zella]

I really thought in interview prior to knowing she was dead, it could be nervous laughter. I also think that "at the time" he was pulling off a "she left with the kids and I don't know where she went", so one would not be full throttle into anguish because...well, she is alive guys, just escaping the husband. (So I could see how he acted like that, so it was not a deal cincher at all to me). But once he confessed to killing Shanaan there is NO WAY you could look at that interview and make sense that he witnessed a horrifying killing but was so casual about the missing girls. Through that lens, I just do not see where he would ever sway a jury. But gosh I have been wrong before.
I also don't fault people who wondered about Shanaan and her history. I did it myself. People are not good and evil even when one is mostly good and the other is mostly evil. There are some dynamics at play. I wonder now if she was just totally clueless as to it happening because he was that good a liar. I am sure his motivation involved his mistress in all probability, but enough to be 100% it? I look forward to getting a better explanation.

BBM

I'm a nervous laugher and joker myself, so that was something I wanted to keep an open mind about and not something I judged him for right away.

For me, personally, though, the word nervous is key, and it's very much a thing that happens when I am feeling awkward. It's not something I personally do when I am really upset or terrified. But if all he had done was randomly nervously giggled but otherwise seemed like a genuinely distraught husband and father, I would have been willing to overlook it.