Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #48

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Maybe it’s just me, but the autism/asperger topic is up there with the discussions we had that maybe the Thrive patch drove him nuts. Eye roll. I guess a lot of things could be at play here (in his background and head), but at the end of the day, I think he’s just a murdering jerk. I’m tired of every killer having (or trying to come up with) an excuse.

Absolutely agree. I predict that once his supporters come to terms with the fact that CW killed all 4 of them, they will then pin the blame on the devil - anyone except CW himself. JMO

Yes they will and their devil will

He doesn't look like he was forced into that video.

no he does not, she was engaging with him, smiling, he was enjoying himself too, showing off the dog.

 

[molly1255]

Even though the current governor is not using the death penalty, what would happen if down the road, a newly elected governor decided to enforce the death penalty?

Would the death penalty apply to anyone who is sitting in jail sentenced with a death penalty?

The way our crazy world is today, who could project what it will be like in 15 - 20 years? I think CW and lawyers were looking at this fact of the unknown in the future. JMO.

There is no way for anyone to predict whether executions will carried out at any point in time in the future. This just happened in the state of Nebraska - Colorado's next-door neighbor. No executions for 21 years and in August of this year, a man who had been on death row for 39 years was executed by lethal injection.

From what I could see when I looked at the history of the death penalty in Nebraska, there have been an incredible amount of politics going on for many years, including lawmakers replacing the death penalty with LWOP in 2015. The voters changed that in 2016. And now, an execution.

 

[nwmouse]

He grilled the evening of the murders. I tend to believe he was simply cooking, and there is nothing nefarious about it. Mass murderers get hungry too.

It’ll be very telling if any drugs were found in the girl’s system.

Yup, plus he needed his steak for protein so he could stay looking buff for all his ap's.
Its hard to know how anyone can eat knowing they're about to murder a pregnant wife and two little toddlers.
Stone cold evil if you ask me.

 

[MassGuy]

Yup, plus he needed his steak for protein so he could stay looking buff for all his ap's.
Its hard to know how anyone can eat knowing they're about to murder a pregnant wife and two little toddlers.
Stone cold evil if you ask me.

After killing his mother, wife, son, and daughter, John List made himself a sandwich.

He later watched his son’s soccer game, drove him home, shot him to death, then disappeared.

It’s bad enough to eat before killing, but I think it’s especially cold to stop and do that during a massacre.

These guys are some sick puppies.

 

[nwmouse]

After killing his mother, wife, son, and daughter, John List made himself a sandwich.

He later watched his son’s soccer game, drove him home, shot him to death, then disappeared.

It’s bad enough to eat before killing, but I think it’s especially cold to stop and do that during a massacre.

These guys are some sick puppies.

WTH????

Thanks for sharing I need to go and look up John List.

Sick, sick sick.

 

[nwmouse]

Agreed. I think it is just more smoke and mirrors in a bid to find some reason CW is not truly and totally responsible. People will shout incompetent defense, restriction from his family's input, Asperger's, and abused husband syndrome all in an effort to find some reason why an otherwise seemingly likeable husband and father could annihilate his entire family and lie about it. IMO

Agreed. And there is no way CW is an Aspie.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

My apologies if asked and answered. Is it unusual or significant that the plea said they agreed to destroy certain evidence?

 

[PommyMommy]

My apologies if asked and answered. Is it unusual or significant that the plea said they agreed to destroy certain evidence?

They didn't agree to destroy evidence. The plea agreement says they can discard, destroy, return...it doesn't say they are going to. MOO

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Written Waiver and Guilty Plea.pdf

 

[Nudgee]

I'm not a big crime sleuther at all. I got sucked into this case because I happen to have been in Frederick/Berthoud Colorado the week of this crime, although I live in the SE US.

Can any of you help me understand the difference between "premeditated" and "after deliberation".... I have theories in my had that I want to work through in the event CW makes any kind of statement on 11/19..... I've googled the difference but it still is a blur to me!

 

[ZsaZsa]

+www c

They did not agree to destroy evidence. The plea agreement says they can discard, destroy, return...it doesn't say they are going to. MOO

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Written Waiver and Guilty Plea.pdf

This is odd though, eh?

 

[Tortoise]

I'm not a big crime sleuther at all. I got sucked into this case because I happen to have been in Frederick/Berthoud Colorado the week of this crime, although I live in the SE US.

Can any of you help me understand the difference between "premeditated" and "after deliberation".... I have theories in my had that I want to work through in the event CW makes any kind of statement on 11/19..... I've googled the difference but it still is a blur to me!

There is no difference, both mean the same thing, he thought about it in advance of doing it. He planned it in other words.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

They did not agree to destroy evidence. The plea agreement says they can discard, destroy, return...it doesn't say they are going to. MOO

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Written Waiver and Guilty Plea.pdf

Thanks, it does look like that is standard language. I have never heard of evidence being destroyed though. I thought it was preserved in case of future appeals or litigation.

 

[Love Never Fails]

They did not agree to destroy evidence. The plea agreement says they can discard, destroy, return...it doesn't say they are going to. MOO

https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/19th_Judicial_District/caseofinterest/2018CR2003/Written Waiver and Guilty Plea.pdf

Just checking in....it reads to me like all evidence will possibly be turned over to Ronnie Watts. Is that CW’s dad? Why?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I'm not a big crime sleuther at all. I got sucked into this case because I happen to have been in Frederick/Berthoud Colorado the week of this crime, although I live in the SE US.

Can any of you help me understand the difference between "premeditated" and "after deliberation".... I have theories in my had that I want to work through in the event CW makes any kind of statement on 11/19..... I've googled the difference but it still is a blur to me!

One of our legal eagles will probably answer your question soon enough but I thought I'd have a crack at it and search around, this is what I found -



In People v Felix, Justice O'Neill of the Court of Appeals of California wrote:

"Premeditated means considered beforehand, and deliberate means formed or arrived at or determined upon as a result of careful thought and weighing of considerations for and against the proposed course of action.

"The process of premeditation and deliberation does not require any extended period of time. The true test is not the duration of time as much as it is the extent of the reflection. Thoughts may follow each other with great rapidity and cold, calculated judgment may be arrived at quickly. The fundamental inquiry is whether a rational jury could have concluded that the crime occurred as a result of preexisting reflection rather than a rash or unconsidered impulse."


In State v McGhee, Justice Heavican of the Supreme Court of Nebraska wrote:

"Deliberate means not suddenly, not rashly, and requires that the defendant considered the probable consequences of his or her act before doing the act.

"The term premeditated means to have formed a design to commit an act before it is done.

"One kills with premeditated malice if, before the act causing the death occurs, one has formed the intent or determined to kill the victim without legal justification.

"No particular length of time for premeditation is required, provided that the intent to kill is formed before the act is committed and not simultaneously with the act that caused the death. The time required to establish premeditation may be of the shortest possible duration and may be so short that it is instantaneous, and the design or purpose to kill may be formed upon premeditation and deliberation at any moment before the homicide is committed. A question of premeditation is for the jury to decide."


In State v Stitt, Justice Robert Hunter of the Court of Appeals of North Carolina wrote:

"First-degree murder is the unlawful killing of another human being with malice and with premeditation and deliberation.

"A killing is premeditated if the defendant formed the specific intent to kill the victim some period of time, however short, before the actual killing.

"A killing is deliberate if the defendant acted in a cool state of blood, in furtherance of a fixed design for revenge or to accomplish an unlawful purpose and not under the influence of a violent passion, suddenly aroused by lawful or just cause or legal provocation.

"Premeditation and deliberation are usually proven by circumstantial evidence because they are mental processes that are not readily susceptible to proof by direct evidence."

Deliberate Definition

 

[PommyMommy]

+www c

This is odd though, eh?

I don't know, really. I can't think of another case to compare it with, but just for example, once they've taken prints, data, etc. from the phones, computers, etc. they should be able to return those items, I'd think. If the truck is owned by Anadarko and they have finished processing it, it would be returned, right? I don't read it as they're going to throw all the evidence in a barrel and set fire to it or anything, lol.

 

[PommyMommy]

Thanks, it does look like that is standard language. I have never heard of evidence being destroyed though. I thought it was preserved in case of future appeals or litigation.

JMO, but I think much of it will be preserved. But there are items that can be returned once they're finished with their examination. Hopefully an attorney can chime in. MOO

 

[ReckoningDay]

Shanann loved CW and did a great deal for him in all the ways she could think of to do. Cece and Bella loved and trusted their daddy, you can see it in videos and photos. Nico was a new life blossoming toward being born. CW murdered them all because they were in the way of a life he wanted to live. He knew it was bad, he knew what he did was abhorrent, he knew all of it was wrong, and he didn't care! He did it anyway, because it served his sick, twisted purpose! . Why would it matter now if he had a defect? (He IS a defect) I believe he was properly informed in ALL facets of the case, on both sides. I believe he made an informed decision. I believe he has been treated more than fairly. Why does the "poor CW, it wasn't his fault" train keep running? What will it take to finally derail it?

Blue ribbon post!

 

[PommyMommy]

Just checking in....it reads to me like all evidence will possibly be turned over to Ronnie Watts. Is that CW’s dad? Why?

Let's see if @gitana1 can help. MOO

 

[PajamaSleuth]

I don’t remember this being discussed. Forgive me if it was and I missed it.

What were the sleeping arrangements in NC? Did C and B share a bed? On vacations a lot of families “bunk together” because there isn’t as much space as at home — not to mention finding comfort in unfamiliar surroundings.

Anyway, if the girls slept together for their NC trip, it seems likely they shared a bed when they returned to CO, especially while their mom was in AZ.

Which makes me wonder, why did CW say the girls were in separate rooms?

 

[cailleach]

Blue ribbon post!

@Thepoet I agree with @Charlot123 That was a gold star post!!