Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #52

[SaguaroSpirit]

I don't think it has as much to do with that as the pregnancy, and I also don't believe that NK was CW's first fling. I think he's cheated before and likely when SW was pregnant. We've seen this with other family annihilators. Also interesting is that in each of the examples below, the fetus was male.

JEFFREY MACDONALD was tried and convicted in 1979 for the February 1970 murders of his pregnant wife and two daughters.
Jeffrey MacDonald | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

CHARLES STUART murdered his pregnant wife and inflamed racial tensions in the Boston area by concocting a fictitious African-American assailant.
Charles Stuart | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

JOHN SHARPE killed his wife Anna (who was five months pregnant with their son Francis) and his 20-month-old daughter Gracie with a spear gun. Sharpe later exhumed the body of his wife from a shallow grave, dismembered her, then disposed of her body in a landfill.
Sharpe family murders - Wikipedia

ETA: May not be a complete list.
MOO

That is kind of freaky, I wonder what the deeper psychological meaning to that is?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

If CW's mother begins to criticize Shan'ann, I would think the Judge would stop her.
He could reprimand her, stating if she continues in this line, she must leave.
This would get her in such a state, that she'll 'give up' and sit down.
Her great speech, in her eyes only, would fizzle.
I hope so.
MOO.

I think she'll run her mouth and earn herself a contempt of court charge.

 

[Deleted member 182072]

They are terrible , apparently their lack of intelligence results in coming up with topics like this to discuss, they went on to muse what was Shanann thinking as her husband strangled her. I have no words sufficient enough to describe my disgust.

They are utterly contemptible.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were the same vile posters I saw a while back hoping that Shanann knew her girls were already dead as he strangled her so she would know what she "drove" him to do.
They can't crawl back into their holes soon enough.

 

[mickey2942]

You would think if CW had told his father in the car that he had killed SW, the father would have said, you can't talk to the police anymore without a lawyer present. Quite honestly, I can't believe he even gave the "confession" he gave without asking for a lawyer first! But... this family didn't seem to even seek legal counsel before letting someone email the judge if he could give them a ring, so who knows!

My guess (from my vast and extensive experience in watching Law & Order episodes and reading fiction novels and posting on crime forums) is that law enforcement was not letting on to CW that they did not believe him. In fact, they probably gave him a ton of room to keep talking - and lying. Like, "Lie to me. Please lie to me." There is a mantra in law enforcement, that sometimes a provable lie is as good as the truth. But as the questions grew, CW probably felt the intensity. At some point they probably confronted him with pieces of evidence that he couldn't explain or lie his way out. That may be when he asked to speak to his father and then gave his "confession."

It's always mind-boggling to me that these suspects don't lawyer up and shut up earlier. But I guess they start off as the oh so helpful victim. Sure, whatever you need. Search the house. Pick up a scent. CW was so dumb he figured he left no evidence in the house, not realizing a cadaver dog would still be able to smell death. He's treated with kid gloves by everyone and I think gets lulled into a false sense of security that everyone is buying his story. Then suddenly it starts falling apart and these liars get even more stubborn and cling to their false narratives and try to front this "I have nothing to hide" bravado, instead of realizing they should shut up and not make confessions without speaking to legal counsel. I can't believe the father let him do that either. (Well actually I can, but in theory that would shock me that he suddenly accuses SW of a crime and confessed to killing her without going back in there with an attorney.)

Innocent people don't think that they need an attorney, and guilty narcissistic people think that they won't be caught. I have seen the dynamics from several different sides. In general, if you have nothing to hide, just make a statement to the police and leave. It is people who don't get up and leave that get jammed up, especially if the police keep asking questions. Police cannot detain a suspect without charges, indefinitely.

 

[Tortoise]

In addition to many other undesirable qualities, I think it must take a very inflated sense of infallibility or cleverness, (struggling to find the right word here) to think that one will get away with murders and body disposals and won't be suspected and life will be great afterwards. It's delusion but I think we use that word so often to describe stupid or not able to see reality, when there is that, but there also must be a very pumped up ego.

Where did he hide it? Or was it unleashed behind closed doors and off-camera? If he kept it hidden he would be very contemptuous underneath the surface I would think - because it is such a superior mindset to have.

 

[katydid23]

I know. Ever since someone mentioned it up thread, it’s been in my head. That stupid clothing comment set the tone for them to not like SW. They chose to hold onto that as opposed to being happy that their precious Chris had a wife who seemed to really love him and took care of him. She gave him adorable children, helped him improve his health, cooked him nice meals and spent time with him on vacations and concerts. Someone earlier mentioned we all think SW was a saint. No not a saint but I do think she wanted to be and tried to be a good wife and mother. She definitely didn’t deserve any of this. Maybe it’s the sentencing tomorrow, but for some reason, I’m feeling especially sad today that her life was taken.

It is heartbreaking.

I have to wonder how different it might have been, if the family had been supportive of his marriage. If they had attended his wedding, spoke highly of his wife and babies, praised him for being a good husband and father? ....sigh....

 

[Seattle1]

Does anyone know which is the best livestream to go with tomorrow where I can get full and uninterrupted coverage from start to finish, including the District Attorney’s press conference? I plan to plop myself down and sit there from beginning to end.

In the past, we never know ahead of time. It seems like that way at least. A lot of times we think HLN will be great, but then they interrupt for commercials and it drives us all mad! During it, I am sure that many of us will in real-time tell others which is the best one. That is what has happened in the past.

Just be here and online and refresh, and folks will help you out in real time. And remember, it is starting for one channel about one and a quarter hours earlier as far as their broadcast.

What to expect during Monday's sentencing of Chris Watts for the murder of Shanann Watts, 2 children

What you can expect from the Coloradoan:

The Coloradoan will have reporters in court in Greeley on Monday and live in Frederick during the sentencing of Christopher Watts.

Coverage will begin about 8:45 a.m., with a live broadcast on Facebook from the courthouse. We will review what we know, how the case has progressed so far and what we can hope to learn Monday.

About 9 a.m., we will have a live broadcast on Facebook from Frederick, exploring how this case has impacted the small town north of Denver.

Sentencing is scheduled to run until about noon Monday, and live updates will be posted on Coloradoan.com.

We will provide a livestream of the sentencing hearing from our partners at 9NEWS on Coloradoan.com and on Facebook starting at 10 a.m. Monday.

The Coloradoan will broadcast Weld County District Attorney Michael Rourke's news conference at 1 p.m. Monday.

Full coverage and analysis will be available at Coloradoan.com throughout the day.

I believe the LAW AND CRIME NETWORK would also be a good choice this show is all about live trial coverage. They also filed for expanded media coverage (EMC) with the Court.

Law & Crime Network

 

[tmar]

With so many scenarios, I wonder if he might have pushed her down the stairs. I would think that would cause a lot of bruising all over her body as she hit each stair. Horrible image. He may have gone downstairs to finish her off.

With all our scenarios and discussions, in only a few hours we will hear the evidence.
It must be very damming for CW to plea, accepting all charges.
Before evidence was available, he possibly thought his lies about SW attacking the kiddies, may work.

Evidence will prove CW killed all.
We could be in for a shock, I would think, and must be prepared for horrible details.
CW's mother will react badly. MOO.

You would think Medicos will be available, for both families, and the audience.
However these details, may be revealed, after the sentencing by the DA.
MOO.

 

[PommyMommy]

That is kind of freaky, I wonder what the deeper psychological meaning to that is?

Many threads back, Gitana1 posted an article about MPHS (Male Pre-partum Homicidal Syndrome). I'm not sure this is the same article, but it gives a brief description.

Forensic Psychiatrist Keith Ablow, MD Identifies New Syndrome in Killers: Male Pre-Partum Homicidal Syndrome (MPHS)
"Ablow theorizes that Male Pre-partum Homicidal Syndrome occurs in men who come to believe—consciously or unconsciously—that their own life stories cannot continue in any acceptable way, if a child (or another child) is born to them. "Such a man [displaying MPHS] comes to equate the impending birth of a son or daughter with his own impending psychological death. The pathological arithmetic comes down to, 'It's that child or it's me. One of us has to go.'"

Very often, Ablow believes, men displaying MPHS have experienced feelings of loss or trauma in the setting of growing families before—in their families of origin. "These men may have felt pushed aside by a new child in the family or unloved by their own mothers. The idea of living in another growing family is untenable to them, at a deep, emotional, usually unconscious level."

 

[sun16]

With all our scenarios and discussions, in only a few hours we will hear the evidence.
It must be very damming for CW to plea, accepting all charges.
Before evidence was available, he possibly thought his lies about SW attacking the kiddies, may work.

Evidence will prove CW killed all.
We could be in for a shock, I would think, and must be prepared for horrible details.
CW's mother will react badly. MOO.

You would think Medicos will be available, for both families, and the audience.
However these details, may be revealed, after the sentencing by the DA.
MOO.

Right, 1pm MT I think for the DA press conference.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Many threads back, Gitana1 posted an article about MPHS (Male Pre-partum Homicidal Syndrome). I'm not sure this is the same article, but it gives a brief description.

Forensic Psychiatrist Keith Ablow, MD Identifies New Syndrome in Killers: Male Pre-Partum Homicidal Syndrome (MPHS)
"Ablow theorizes that Male Pre-partum Homicidal Syndrome occurs in men who come to believe—consciously or unconsciously—that their own life stories cannot continue in any acceptable way, if a child (or another child) is born to them. "Such a man [displaying MPHS] comes to equate the impending birth of a son or daughter with his own impending psychological death. The pathological arithmetic comes down to, 'It's that child or it's me. One of us has to go.'"

Very often, Ablow believes, men displaying MPHS have experienced feelings of loss or trauma in the setting of growing families before—in their families of origin. "These men may have felt pushed aside by a new child in the family or unloved by their own mothers. The idea of living in another growing family is untenable to them, at a deep, emotional, usually unconscious level."

That is horrible!!!

 

[tmar]

I think it is so weird, well everything with his family is weird, is that his dad was flying back home before they knew what had happened. If I understood her correctly, she said Ronnie was on the way back to the airport when the police called and said that Chris wanted to talk to him . Who leaves when your DIL and grandchildren are still missing and the police are interrogating your son? Surely his employer would have understood. Regardless of their dislike for Shanann, you think they would be there for their son. Edited to add, I would not be asking if you needed us to come down, I would have already been at the airport.

Perhaps Mr Watts, was returning, due to 'orders' by his wife.
It appears clear, the Watts mother draws the lines.
Mr Watts may just be following his orders, and must return home.
Or perhaps he quietly, also does not approve of their son's marriage.
The fact he may have attended, the wedding, does not reveal his feelings.
MOO.

 

[PommyMommy]

That is horrible!!!

Yes. Psychologist Dr. Jeff Gardere put it this way:

"What we typically see is in killing their child or children, killing the wife, killing the family, these are individuals who feel that this is an act of desperation – this is something they must do in order to go on with their lives," he said.
Inside the Troubling Pattern of Pregnant Women Being Killed by Loved Ones

 

[Seattle1]

I know. Ever since someone mentioned it up thread, it’s been in my head. That stupid clothing comment set the tone for them to not like SW. They chose to hold onto that as opposed to being happy that their precious Chris had a wife who seemed to really love him and took care of him. She gave him adorable children, helped him improve his health, cooked him nice meals and spent time with him on vacations and concerts. Someone earlier mentioned we all think SW was a saint. No not a saint but I do think she wanted to be and tried to be a good wife and mother. She definitely didn’t deserve any of this. Maybe it’s the sentencing tomorrow, but for some reason, I’m feeling especially sad today that her life was taken.

I believe SW family statement says it best.

Their statement reads:

“Shanann Watts was a faithful wife, and the most gentle and loving mother in the world to her children Bella, Celeste, and Nico. She was also the best daughter any parent could ever hope for. Shanann was a wonderful soul.

Everyone who knew Shanann knows this to be true. Even Chris Watts knows this to be true. Yet Chris Watts still chose to murder Shanann, Bella, Celeste, and Nico. Chris Watts still chose to dump the bodies of his own family in oil tanks. And Chris Watts still chose to lie about it until he could lie no more. He pled (sic) guilty to murdering his family because he is guilty. BBM

Monday evening, the parents of Chris Watts gave an interview in which they attempted to defend their son. In doing so, they felt the need to make vicious, grotesque and utterly false statements about Shanann. Their false statements, however hurtful and inaccurate, will never alter the truth about Shanann, and will never alter the truth about the crimes committed by their son, Chris Watts.

Shanann’s memory and reputation deserves to be protected. And her family is fully prepared to do so.”

 

[erik28]

Where is it reported that Ronnie Watts has(d) a career in law enforcement? If it is the case, I can imagine that has had an impact on Ronnie and Cindy Watts' and CW's reaction to the crimes, their perceived station in their community, how his crimes reflect on their sense of worthiness. Perhaps this is an additional layer convoluting their public statements which seem so distanced from pain and grief for the lives lost.

IMO! Also, I personally wouldn't judge them for his crimes, but I can understand how they would worry that some in their local community especially might.

 

[JEM1975]

I know that a lot of us have felt so deeply connected to Shanann, Bella, CeCe and Nico and this case. My husband says I'm obsessed and I guess I am. I'm sure part of it for me is living here but I also feel like there is something more, like something i'm supposed to know, or learn or help with. Does anybody else feel like that? I've been interested in true crime my whole life and have always kept up on it but I've never felt so personally affected or connected. From the day they went missing, they've been on my mind and in my heart constantly. I even dreamed that I was Shanann and I ran and hid in the bedroom because I was afraid of Chris. I'm so looking forward to answers and healing for her family, friends and all of us who have been so passionately fighting on her behalf!

 

[Tortoise]

It is heartbreaking.

I have to wonder how different it might have been, if the family had been supportive of his marriage. If they had attended his wedding, spoke highly of his wife and babies, praised him for being a good husband and father? ....sigh....

If she had met someone else you mean. The Watts are not capable of these things. MOO.

 

[margarita25]

Thank you for this. I believe it's so important that society not take the easy way out by saying that we can never understand these perpetrators or they are just evil, so why try? Well, it's true they are evil, and while we may never be able to empathize or relate, we can certainly strive to understand. That is our only hope for stopping future murders. That is what drew me, and so many of us, to true crime and these boards. It's what drew my family member to be a prosecutor and me to study human behavior in social work school. We must ask the hard questions about WHY these people did these horrific things and how we can work to make sure there is never another family annihilated. I do think everyone should read "The Sociopath Next Door" and "Why Does He Do That" so that we are all aware that sociopaths, narcissists, and abusers not only exist but are causing an epidemic of violence and social disruption, and interventions must be addressed as soon as possible to protect their victims.

Thank you, Lore Listener for your response. I’m glad you got something out of that post because I was having a hard time finding the right words and sometimes my thoughts don’t fully express what I’m trying to say.

Re: your post, this is exactly why I continue in my studies with mass shooters, etc, and try to learn more information about this growing epidemic. It’s easy to say “they’re all just crazy” (which imo they most certainly are crazy to cross that “line” I mentioned above); however, what I’m finding is that there are many, many similarities in these shooters, just as there are with certain characteristics and behaviors re: child predators, etc.
(Of course there are also variances which obviously makes things difficult in so many cases, Abby and Libby for example, Jayme Closs for immediate example).

Now does this mean that armed with certain knowledge that we can necessarily prevent such occurrences, unfortunately not, especially with FAs and someone like CW IMO whose outward appearances can be very deceiving. (I do think though after binge watching “Evil Lives Here” that the there may have been signs, of course no way Shanann ever could have imagined....)

We can and should continue to study, document, compare, discuss and learn as much as we can, for example: Now I am fully aware of what the social media of a potential mass shooter looks like. Unfortunately until a crime is committed there is sometimes little/ nothing that can be done, but at least it can be reported, and the local agencies/FBI/Cyber Crime etc etc all those people take Domestic Terrorism very seriously. As for Family Annihilators, unfortunately they seem to blend into society much better than mass shooters.

 

[tmar]

Not even why they were driving directly from the airport to the police station for more questioning?

I agree, NuttMeg. That drive from the airport wasn't silent. And I think CW used the conversation in the car to set the stage for his later "confession" at the police station to his father. The lying liar never stopped lying.

I agree.
There may have been discussions, about possible scenarios, for the best outcome for CW.
In time, CW will fall apart, may cave in, and reveal all: he is heading to be 'broken'.
Everything is now against him.
MOO.

However revealing all, would prove a major problem for his father.
You would think, LE are quite aware of CW's 'talks' at the Police Station, prior, and after CW's discussions with his father.
They would have noted, his behaviour.
Certainly CW did not require ANYONE's approval, to tell the truth.
This delay, was to provide time, to create another lie, for possible leniency for CW.
MOO.

 

[Thepoet]

Regarding the victim impact statements.... a question for our awesome lawyers. Is the judge actually ever swayed by these? Is the judges mind already made up as far as what the sentence handed down will be....or..... in your experience or knowledge are judges sometimes swayed enough by these statements to change their sentence? TIA

Interesting questions.
@gitana1