Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #55

[Mercedes]

JMO but I feel like, without signs of a struggle, he may have killed SW first. As a mom, I know that I would peek in on the girls or kiss their heads when I get home from a trip. If they were already gone, I would think she would have lost it with him and there would have been a fight. I know I would have. I would never come home and go straight to bed without at least checking on my kids that I haven’t seen for a day or 2.

ETA-i have no idea where this falls In the conversation, This is only my second post, so sorry if this is off topic! I need to catch up!

Welcome to Websleuths!

 

[kaykay543]

I so was enjoying reading the reviews last night and watching their rating slide from 4.8 stars down to 4 stars. Then when I went to check it out this morning it was gone. Sad!

Unfortunately its there they just made it private. Which is odd as they took down the twitter page when the two hosts got in a fight over Radar

 

[Tortoise]

As several other posters noted, CW appeared to feel shame, which doesn't necessarily mean he feels guilty or remorseful, which I believe he doesn't. He felt shame with the spotlight on HIM, not for the good he's done, but for the incredibly, undeniably BAD he's done. I thought if he could, he would have slithered under the table like the snake, he is. CW shed a tear when his Dad read his impact statement, it hit him that his dad no longer can feel proud of him, well, not in public. I echo Frank Rzucek's words, he's an evil monster!

Some insightful observations about shame and guilt.


Guilt: a feeling of responsibility or remorse for some offense, crime, wrong, etc., whether real or imagined.
Shame: the painful feeling arising from the consciousness of something dishonorable, improper, ridiculous, etc., done by oneself or another.

Many people who display narcissistic behavior often suffer from profound feelings of shame but have little authentic concern for other people; they don't tend to feel genuinely guilty. The lack of empathy to be found in narcissistic personality disorder makes real guilt unlikely since guilt depends upon the ability to intuit how someone else might feel.

When shame is especially pervasive (what I refer to as core or basic shame), it usually precludes feelings of genuine concern and guilt from developing; the sense of being damaged is so powerful and painful that it crowds out feeling for anyone else. In such cases, idealization often comes into play: other people are then viewed as perfect, the lucky ones who have the ideal shame-free life we crave; powerful envy may be the (unconscious) result. In those cases, we might take pleasure in hurting the person we envy rather than feeling guilty about it.

In others words, core shame reflects early psychological damage that impedes growth; the capacity to feel guilt depends upon that psychological growth and could be seen as emotional progress. If the early environment is "good enough," we develop a reliable sense of self that in turn enables us to view other people as separate and to feel concern for them. Although the experience of guilt is painful, our ability to recognize that our own actions may have hurt someone, to empathize with that person's pain and to feel remorse for having caused it are all signs of emotional health.

The Difference Between Guilt and Shame

Thank you for posting this Prime, this is so very interesting to me. I want to peel back the layers of CW, I want to understand, and this has taken me to a greater level of understanding.

This is so backed up by what I saw in court yesterday but I couldn't put my finger on, and in the manner in which he committed these senseless acts too.

When his father's statement was read I saw the shame of a very small boy, lifting his head even if ever so slightly, to acknowledge for the only time during the whole proceedings the other's perspective of him. I would agree that it appears that his emotional growth was completely arrested before he saw himself as separate, he is still enmeshed with his father, and the shame festered - behind a mask of goodness.

Hiding is exactly what he appears to have done while murdering his family. There was no fight with Shan'ann, he overpowered her when she was completely unawares. She never saw the danger. Likely the girls too, since he covered their faces.

We will never know but I am intrigued by the thought that it was finding out the gender of the baby that turned his mind to murder. Maybe he could not tolerate the thought of competing with a growing man in his household (or even in his life, had he divorced Shan'ann) better than his hidden inherently defective self. It was interesting that his first thought when Shan'ann told him she was pregnant was 'so pink means girls?' - even though he KNEW that is not what the result on the stick showed. They had pregnancies before, and he never killed them, but in both cases he found out they were going to be girls.

I'm thinking he is torn up by thoughts of his father, and he just totally disrespects and despises his mother, he killed her off in his head years ago.

MOO

 

[MsBetsy]

This has been talked about a few times on here and we really have no way of knowing if he did or not. Sometimes they are hard to see or people kind of hide them.



Wow I must have missed that, if I remember correctly wasn't it the house across the street and kind of at a kitty corner angle?

Yes, I think it was across the street, and I'm not sure of the source. I think the neighbors were interviewed and mentioned they had recently changed the angle. Like just a few days before the murder. It wasn't discussed for very long, but thats what I remember. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Unfortunately its there they just made it private. Which is odd as they took down the twitter page when the two hosts got in a fight over Radar

That makes sense. I wonder who the private members could be?

 

[Mercedes]

Now we know he probably WAS telling Shanann he wanted to separate in the weeks leading up to the murders. The books on trying to save the marriage and her telling her family they might separate(according to her mom's co-worker at the salon) plus her telling her friend she would need her support when she returned home. These things indicate they had been discussing it. I think CW was tired of discussing it, perhaps upset and even enraged that she didn't just acquiesce. Perhaps upset at emotion and sadness she probably expressed, I can understand if she was begging him to change his mind. I think she went to NC also to give him some time to miss them and change his mind. And he had had enough. He wanted out And that was that. Shanann wasn't listening and NK would find out soon he was a big fat liar.
I havent been so moved by a case in many years. Yesterday was a long day, and when I finally came home from work and watched the sentencing I couldn't stop crying. I feel like we've all waited so long to hear the truth and now that we have its worse than we imagined.
I feel so very bad for her family and friends. Like her dad said at the end of his statement: "Shanann was excited for justice to be served today". I believe she really told him that, I believe in those things. I hope she also knew about all the people here on WS and around the world who were excited for the same.

eTA
If Shannan was telling her family they might separate and was very suspicious of his activities then perhaps she was beginning to accept he wanted out. But he never knew that and if he had given her a little more time he could have had what he wanted. But in his mind it was too late and he needed them gone so as not to lose NK

Do you think Shanann knew Chris “wanted out of the marriage” before Shanann and the girls went to NC for the summer?

 

[Mellowmelly]

.

Interesting interview with one of the reporters who interviewed CW

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=495901524234182

Her poor friend showed the emotion he should’ve been showing.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I'm realizing now what Shanann's seemingly joking comment on FB about him eating steak "like a bachelor" was probably about... He probably fed her some BS about treating himself to a nice steakhouse dinner when she asked him about those charges on the CC. She truly was just trying to stay positive even in the face of growing evidence that something was up. She wanted to believe him, give him the benefit of the doubt. Ugh

I had remembered that post and was going to comment on it but you beat me to it. Didn't she say something about steak and shrimp? And what was the date of that post?

 

[MsBetsy]

This has been eating away at me as well. It's not that I feel it was inappropriate that they forgive him, I get that. They are his parents, and of course they love him and want to forgive him. I am of the mindset that forgiveness most benefits the person forgiving, rather than person being forgiven, and if forgiving him brings them some comfort I am glad of that.

However.

One does not need to verbalize their forgiveness to another, when it is for themselves. And it is very clear that their need was for CW to know that he was forgiven. And in this context yes, especially given who was in attendance, it felt very inappropriate.

I think that, whether they came to it themselves, or they had help, that the Wattses have come to realize that this may very well be the last time they ever speak to their son. It has become painfully obvious over the past couple of weeks that he does not wish to speak to them. I think this was their way of saying goodbye, in a sense, this was what they wanted him to know, in the event that they never talk to him again.

You expressed that very well. I think they are just coming to acceptance, and they wanted him to know they love him unconditionally. Of course they could have done that in a letter. But he may have never opened it. Just like he threw the relationship self help book in the garbage. Imo

 

[Tortoise]

I have to say when CW mother said how much she loved and forgave him, I felt sick. that was so inappropriate. It is pretty telling what kind of family they are- at least mom--an enabler.

I totally agree. No one knows this more so than CW himself.

 

[Kadoober]

Do you think Shanann knew Chris “wanted out of the marriage” before Shanann and the girls went to NC for the summer?

The DA said she was sending him relationship books. I took that to mean she was sending them to him from NC, which would mean yes, she did.
It could mean she was sending them to him from Amazon, though.
So this post solves nothing.

 

[Mellowmelly]

Excuse my language but he is the most heartless b@#$!?! I’ve ever known of, he’s even worse than serial killers, even they have some feelings for their children, from what I have read. I hope he rots in hell.

 

[Kadoober]

You expressed that very well. I think they are just coming to acceptance, and they wanted him to know they love him unconditionally. Of course they could have done that in a letter. But he may have never opened it. Just like he threw the relationship self help book in the garbage. Imo

Thank you, and exactly!
He had no choice but to sit there and hear them, and they took that opportunity.

 

[Mercedes]

Yes. In addition to paying for the victim’s families to travel to the hearing, the state of Colorado (I think, perhaps the county) paid for the bodies to be flown to NC and they also paid for the caskets and funeral. CW will contribute to the fund that made that possible.

When the Watts’ house is finally sold, will Chris’ share be applied to the restitution fund and, therefore, be used to offset some of these costs?

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

You expressed that very well. I think they are just coming to acceptance, and they wanted him to know they love him unconditionally. Of course they could have done that in a letter. But he may have never opened it. Just like he threw the relationship self help book in the garbage. Imo

Agree, that may be their last opportunity to ever speak to him. I also think they were trying to deter him from committing suicide .

 

[MsBetsy]

.

Her poor friend showed the emotion he should’ve been showing.

Yes, the reporter stated anyone who saw that interview would agree he showed no emotion. Yet the VI said she saw it as him being nervous because she knew him and had seen him upset before and that was normal for him. Jmo

 

[Gardenista]

Unfortunately its there they just made it private. Which is odd as they took down the twitter page when the two hosts got in a fight over Radar

You can't make a page private.

ETA, they had a page and a group. The page is gone. They may have unpublished it instead of deleted it, but it can't be made closed or secret like a group

 

[Mercedes]

You’re right. In the grand scheme of things, it really doesn’t matter, they’re all dead after all.

It’s just curiosity at this point, trying to understand exactly what happened.

I totally agree. In my lifetime, I have noticed that I usually cannot put something major to rest until “I”can make sense of it, to my satisfaction, which means I learn everything about the issue that I can AND then I may analyze it to death.

 

[Gardenista]

This is from yesterday, but I missed it

The family of Shanann Watts, who was murdered along with her two daughters by husband Chris Watts, has filed a civil lawsuit against him hoping to prevent him from profiting from the crime.

https://www.facebook.com/jacelarsontv/posts

 

[Mercedes]

It has been devastating reading what happened to Shan’ann and Nico and the girls. The statement from Shan’ann’s family was very moving and I am glad they condemned the monster for what he has done. My heart breaks for Shan’ann’s family and they continue to be in my prayers.

I can say that I will never understand publicly forgiving your child for a crime like this.

May Shan’ann, Nico, Bella and CeCe Rest In Peace.

Thank you to all of you for your kindness and all your posts and to the moderators for all their hard work.

Glad to see you are back, Greg!