Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW GUILTY* #56

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  • #321
I do know people who erase all their texts regularly. I’m going to give NK the benefit of the doubt and send all my hate to CW.
Very true. I probably have texts from many years ago because I never delete them but my husband deletes his all the time because he likes having a "clean phone" this REALLY irritates me especially when I'm like what time did so and so text you that and he has no idea. Also, I know my husband doesn't do it because he is afraid of me seeing it because I always know where he is even without me asking. He just likes everything (in the house as well) streamlined. Sometimes I wish I were more like that!
 
  • #322
One “expert” take on life in prison for CW, from HLN cable headline news:


Wow what an interview. But I wonder, lol, why Levine was in prison 11 different times. (he said).
 
  • #323
In a post presser news interview the DA said that the garage keypad was broken.
I would like the answer to all the others too. Specially what happened to the rings.

With his line of thinking, as he searched for jewelry, CW possibly may have wanted them altered to give to NK, melted down for money, or to pawn them.
Guess until we find out, where they may be found, we speculate: probably hidden for the above actions.
But CW didn't have time, due to NUA, so perhaps in the sofa.
MOO.
 
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  • #324
The advocate who read the message of the Watts said that when they gave the interviews (earlier in the week) they didn't have all the facts or evidence. (paraphrased). Yet that does not explain away the CW Dad "he didn't love her no more".
So I'm happy they cleaned up their act for the world-wide audience, but their short statements were full of passive constructions, it happened, how did it happen. But he still has not had the opportunity (!!!) to confess to what he did, to explain the responsibility. Broadly paraphrased, however little if anything in there to say. "He killed them all." And CW Dad calling Shan'ann his daughter after saying his son didn't love her "no more". Some of this stuff must have wounded the Rzuceks to the core.
BIB "But he still has not had the opportunity to confess to what he did"

That word I was searching for earlier has come to me. Replace "opportunity" with "balls".

MOO
 
  • #325
This case has held special interest for me for the mere reason that I truly believe, as a society, we are seeing more and more people who, IMO, are probably diagnosable with NPD/Sociopathy/Psychopathy.

Not sure if it's just that we hear about it more via social media/internet, or if the prevalence is increasing...probably a bit of both.

If it is increasing, it's probably due to population growth, increasingly bad parenting (drugs, alcohol, lack of morals), and, as a Christian, I do believe evil is walking the earth with greater strength and frequency. :-(

As a member of several on-line communities dedicated to learning more about these personality issues, I read about many men/women/children/employers/employees who have suffered under the thumb of those who are blatantly causing grief.

Again, IMO, we need to increase awareness of the signs and parameters of NPD, particularly when it bleeds over into the extremes that can and do lead to harmful behavior. All NPD is emotionally/psychologically harmful and some physically. When empathy is removed, all hell breaks loose, literally.

As for forgiveness...again, as a Christian I see the need for, and heartily believe in, forgiving others. For their sake, and ours. BUT, there has to be criteria met in order to forgive. Acknowledgement of the crime, understanding the depth of damage caused by the crime, and TRUE repentance. Don't know if the families have heard that from CW , don't know if CW is even capable.

I don't know. We just categorize things better. The world I think has become a less violent place in many areas, since Jesus walked the earth.

And the reason I kept using the term "Greek tragedy" at the beginning of the case is because that's what it was. Horrific things like this have been described since antiquity.

There's a book called Wisconsin Death Trip which is a gruesome little "coffee table" book about the reality of the pioneers to places in what was then the west, like Wisconsin.

It has tons of photos, newspaper clippings, letters, and various recorded information.

The number of family annihilations that took place in Wisconsin alone, during that period in the late 1800's, is astonishing. And these were very religious folk.

Evil has always walked the earth. IMO we've just gotten fancier at categorizing it. And IMO, the less people struggle with things they need to obtain a happy and healthy life, the less we see of such things.

That being said, I don't think there was one thing that would've enabled any intervention or diagnosis that could've helped CW or prevented him from becoming the monster he is today.

The signs were too subtle. The façade was too well crafted. I don't see how anyone could ever guess that a man who carefully wiped his kids' noses, and played with them, and bathed them, and snuggled them, would becomethis unrecognizable thing. You know what I mean?

He never showed real anger. He didn't have a real romantic relationship before CW. His mother was a terrible monster-in-law. He was a quiet guy who wasn't very social, really. Studious. Determined. But not into having fun.

In retrospect, they are signs, even though countless normal people have very similar characteristics.

But signs that could've led anyone to intervene?

That would be things like starting fires, abusing animals, a criminal record, failing grades, domestic violence incidents. Drugs. Alcohol abuse.

We have none of that here. Nothing.

If we had any of that I don't think this case would've gripped us the way it did. It's the stark normalcy of this family that makes the whole thing so darn sinister and shocking.

I don't think there's much that could prevent a unique monster like this from unleashing his evil in the future, except maybe the gut instinct of whatever lucky woman encounters a man like him in the future, sees perfection, but feels doom. And gets the hell out before it's too late.
 
  • #326
Yes her and CW's sister, that really was a huge gigantic red flag when I heard that.
I have a daughter in her late 30's. She has grown into a wonderful young woman, smart, hard worker, college educated. I love her to death.
Unfortunately she has never picked very good boyfriends and they have all been kicked to the curb over the years.
Her latest? He does not drink, does not do drugs and has a good job. All you would think good points yes?
Well unfortunately it is all about him, him, him. His mother abandoned him with the father at a very young age and moved away.
The father raised him without her. She has popped up back in his life here and there now that he is a grown man.
I do not like him at all as he has issues with women which I can see quite plainly. He most likely should have had counseling when his mother took off but never did and I see he has issues with women. My daughter says he treats her well, but again let me emphasize it is all about HIM and what HE wants.
Now if they end up getting married? And I am hoping they do not.
I certainly will be at the wedding, she is my daughter and I love her. It is NOT about what I want.
I just could not refuse to not go, it would crush my daughter and just go against my grain.
So Cindy and the sister not going was bad right from the beginning and I would love to know what was SO BAD that they refused to go. Another why? And we most likely will never know but I can not personally imagine that choice.
She said she didn't like the way Shannan spoke to him and also she thought she was dangerous. She didn't elaborate. We know she took offence when Shanann did a style makeover on CW. Dad just said " you had to know her" when asked why they didn't like her. Mmm?
 
  • #327
BIB "But he still has not had the opportunity to confess to what he did"

That word I was searching for earlier has come to me. Replace "opportunity" with "balls".

MOO
Too funny. That part is so BS. Poor little CW the little leaguer has just not had the opportunity to tell us what really happened. DA just said CW didn't call ANYONE, except 1 early call to his Dad that didn't go through. He could have picked up the phone anytime to confess the details.
 
  • #328
Yes her and CW's sister, that really was a huge gigantic red flag when I heard that.
I have a daughter in her late 30's. She has grown into a wonderful young woman, smart, hard worker, college educated. I love her to death.
Unfortunately she has never picked very good boyfriends and they have all been kicked to the curb over the years.
Her latest? He does not drink, does not do drugs and has a good job. All you would think good points yes?
Well unfortunately it is all about him, him, him. His mother abandoned him with the father at a very young age and moved away.
The father raised him without her. She has popped up back in his life here and there now that he is a grown man.
I do not like him at all as he has issues with women which I can see quite plainly. He most likely should have had counseling when his mother took off but never did and I see he has issues with women. My daughter says he treats her well, but again let me emphasize it is all about HIM and what HE wants.
Now if they end up getting married? And I am hoping they do not.
I certainly will be at the wedding, she is my daughter and I love her. It is NOT about what I want.
I just could not refuse to not go, it would crush my daughter and just go against my grain.
So Cindy and the sister not going was bad right from the beginning and I would love to know what was SO BAD that they refused to go. Another why? And we most likely will never know but I can not personally imagine that choice.
I personally do not think there is any smoking gun reason as to why they refused to attend the wedding. I believe if they had an acceptable reason showing true abuse, they certainly would have shared that already. Cindy cites comments she didn’t like made by SW about the way he dressed and did his hair (which sounded like light teasing to me...certainly nothing close to abusive) and that he did everything she asked of him. I believe there was no good reason for not attending the wedding just as I do not believe SW was ever abusive toward CW.

Was she the dominant personality in that relationship? Sure. But there usually is one and some people have a problem when it is the woman due to gender role bias. I think Cindy was/is a dominating personality herself, ironically, and could not stand to see CW with someone who took her son away from her and was the center of his world. So I think she found catty reasons to hate SW, which likely only served to bolster CW’s ability to dehumanize SW and the children he had with her when he was no longer enamoured with her and had set his sights on a shiny new love interest to love bomb.

Moreover, friends of SW and CW do not describe a one sided relationship...they saw a loving one between the two. Last, I think generationally Cindy might not have understood how sarcastic and sweetly teasing commentary of younger generations are common and not a sign of abuse. IMO
 
  • #329
Yes her and CW's sister, that really was a huge gigantic red flag when I heard that.
I have a daughter in her late 30's. She has grown into a wonderful young woman, smart, hard worker, college educated. I love her to death.
Unfortunately she has never picked very good boyfriends and they have all been kicked to the curb over the years.
Her latest? He does not drink, does not do drugs and has a good job. All you would think good points yes?
Well unfortunately it is all about him, him, him. His mother abandoned him with the father at a very young age and moved away.
The father raised him without her. She has popped up back in his life here and there now that he is a grown man.
I do not like him at all as he has issues with women which I can see quite plainly. He most likely should have had counseling when his mother took off but never did and I see he has issues with women. My daughter says he treats her well, but again let me emphasize it is all about HIM and what HE wants.
Now if they end up getting married? And I am hoping they do not.
I certainly will be at the wedding, she is my daughter and I love her. It is NOT about what I want.
I just could not refuse to not go, it would crush my daughter and just go against my grain.
So Cindy and the sister not going was bad right from the beginning and I would love to know what was SO BAD that they refused to go. Another why? And we most likely will never know but I can not personally imagine that choice.

Your post just reminded me that this scenario just happened to one of my friends this past summer. My friend has one child, a daughter. A beautiful, smart, ambitious daughter. Her daughter got engaged to her long time boyfriend whom my friend has never really liked because he is lazy, not ambitious, does not have a regular consistent job, lives off of her daughter, and basically makes no effort to get to know anyone in the daughter's family. My friend hoped her daughter wouldn't go through with marrying him. She wanted better for her one and only daughter.

But guess what? When the wedding was being planned, my friend jumped right in to help. She ordered a beautiful mother of the bride dress and she stood proudly next to the newly married couple in wedding pictures. She said the groom would barely talk to her that day, but she didn't make a scene about it because it was her daughter's wedding day. Did she want better for her daughter? Yes. Did she accept her adult daughter's choice and respect her decision and participate in helping her daughter have a dream wedding? Yes. Because she loves her daughter much more than she dislikes her new son-in-law and she hopes for the best. The wedding wasn't about her - it was about the couple getting married.
 
  • #330
She said she didn't like the way Shannan spoke to him and also she thought she was dangerous. She didn't elaborate. We know she took offence when Shanann did a style makeover on CW. Dad just said " you had to know her" when asked why they didn't like her. Mmm?
And yet, they seem to be the only ones that didn't like her. Shannan seemed to have a lot of friends, some very close ones that cared deeply for her and the girls.

Her, her parents, and brother seem like one of the closest bonded families I've ever seen. The love they've displayed and the way they've presented themselves in a truly horrifying situation makes it very hard for me to believe they didn't raise an equally kind daughter. Compare that to what we've seen of the Watts.

Moo
 
  • #331
I realize that what I'm about to ask is a meaningless question in the grand scheme of things, but didn't he get tired? He clearly didn't sleep on the Sunday night, then Monday morning he worked and was busy planning his new life, texting NK, phoning people, 'burning though stop lights' (or however he put it) and talking to the police. Then he was up all Monday evening talking and texting with NK.
I'd normally think he was functioning on adrenaline but he doesn't even seem like killing and disposing of his beautiful family was a big deal, so I don't know if he would even have had that adrenaline...

As we have observed, CW does not care, or show emotion.
His actions that horrid day, were perhaps just 'work' he planned, and carried out without feelings attached.
He possibly slept, his usual hours, and continued as before, presenting himself as he wished.
Here, some of us, were exhausted, just listening, as we feel emotion.
CW is possibly not stressed by his planned movements, as he has been acting all his life in everyday activities.
Just another day, of lies, to CW.
MOO.
 
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  • #332
@LovesChocolate

"The baby's name debate has never struck me. Nico has been rising as a popular name (I even saw it on a list of "hipster baby names" well before this case). Lee is Chris' middle name and it's common for people to use the FOBs (father of baby) middle name for first or middle name. Nickole Atkinson is her best friend, I've assumed. NiCkOLE. There are so many more possible reasons they chose this name rather than it being CWs nod to his mistress. MOO"

I agree on the reasons Nico Lee was chosen as his name. The point I was trying to make is that as a wife and mother of 5 , If I knew my husband was having an affair and the woman's name, regardless of how much I loved the name I had chosen for my baby there is no way I would want to name my child anything close to the mistress' name. The child's name would be a lifelong reminder of the mistress. So I do not believe Shanann knew who the mistress was.

Oh yes, I agree with you, too! I've experienced infidelity (9 years ago) and to this day, the details and name still trigger me.

Unrelated to the above comment...I saw SW's friend doing a Q&A in the MRS sister group. Am I allowed to mention that here?
 
  • #333
Wow what an interview. But I wonder, lol, why Levine was in prison 11 different times. (he said).

It was also stated that he was in federal prison. CW will be in a state prison.
 
  • #334
She said she didn't like the way Shannan spoke to him and also she thought she was dangerous. She didn't elaborate. We know she took offence when Shanann did a style makeover on CW. Dad just said " you had to know her" when asked why they didn't like her. Mmm?

That's right, dangerous. In what way? You had to know her. In what way? A style makeover, well he didn't look outrageous to me. But he does now of course.
Those answers are so evasive.
 
  • #335
  • #336
I'm extremely interested in this question, also. In the very beginning, it was said by one of his friends that he was fired the week before on Thursday.
I might be wrong but as far as I remember he was fired the day of his arrest.
 
  • #337
I thought it was peculiar that their court representative launched straight into the Watts' excuses for their behaviour in the interviews - without ever explaining to the judge what interviews she was on about. She must have just assumed the judge watched them on TV or read about them, you know judge, THE interviews.
 
  • #338
@Bluebythec Sorry I am struggling with multiqoute but thanks for your reply clearing up the misunderstanding. :)



[Respectfully snipped by me]

Great questions and thank you for compiling them!

We all heard a dog barking while at least one of the infamous 'porch' interviews took place, but IIRC there was no mention of the reactions of any cadaver dogs during DA Rourke's statement at the sentencing or afterwards.

Daschund's in my experience have voices that belie their physical stature. They are NOISY.

Was it ever confirmed that the barking we all heard was a LE dog and not Dieter?

If cadaver dogs were there, it hasn't been stated, where the deaths occurred.
Whether Shan'ann was murdered as she entered the house, or whilst in bed, or any where else.
Similarly with the kiddies.o_Oo_Oo_O
MOO.
 
  • #339
The week before what? He had his work truck and went to work on Monday and was arrested on Wednesday. I'm confused about what Thursday you were talking about?

Sorry for the confusion. I was told on Monday the 13th that he had been fired the prior thursday and was given a time to turn in work truck, tools etc. It obviously was not truth. I should have realized that when the DA stated he texted another worker. Sorry, this is all still a bit much.
 
  • #340
I feel like she did know. They seemed very close and talked everyday.

And Nicole had reason to be suspicious right away. To get police involved instantly and - we know now - to try and get CW talking to reporters. She was so smart and on top of everything. Thank goodness for Nicole.

Moo

I hope in time, Nicole gives an interview, with Shan'ann's family's blessing.
This should clear so much for us..
Many do confide in someone special to us, and we may find this with Nicole's account.
I hope so.
 
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