GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #58

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

Jeremy sounds like the one that's 'strange.' Why is someone to be called 'strange' for having health problems? What a compassionate guy he is.

No kidding.

 

[Jupiter05]

I wish the jail reponded to these deranged psychos with crime scene photos of the kids’ bodies being recovered.

Maybe they’d understand evil then.

I can't get over the letters he received from people! I know there are people like this out there, but it was a bit shocking to actually see the letters and the letter senders names revealed. OUTED!

 

[Tortoise]

Jeremy sounds like the one that's 'strange.' Why is someone to be called 'strange' for having health problems? What a compassionate guy he is.

Is he the one whose daughter babysat on Saturday/son had the party on Sunday?

 

[stereopticons]

I do wonder if CW didn't stand up to his Mom as he was feeding Mom lies about Shanann. Sat back and enjoyed the manipulation. It kept Mom happy to be fed info and proven right about Shanann. It kept Shanann off kilter and a conflict he could witness first hand. Clearly Mommy has her own "issues" which are similar to her Son's. IMO

I would love to have a psychologist weigh in on their toxic relationship.

Where is our Psychologist to answer these for us?
There is someone here, in research, not Clinical, but would love to hear their thoughts.
Previous info by this Poster was most informative: stereo....... (something similar to this).
I understand, it is only through this evidence presented, but perhaps we may receive some ideas that we could discuss.
MOO.

@stereopticons

Sorry—had to take a break after reading the whole discovery document.

While CW is pretty skilled at manipulation, which he likely learned from his family, I don’t think he was purposefully not standing up to his mom to manipulate Shanann. I think the nature of his relationship with his mom is that he is too passive and unable to stand up to her manipulative behavior. A lot of our adult relationship behavior is based on what we learned from our parents as children. To me, it sounds like his passive behavior in his relationship with his mother is mirrored in his relationship with Shanann. The big difference is that SW didn’t want to control him, she wanted an equal partnership, and I don’t think he knew how to handle that conflict.

Everyone, regardless of mental illness, experiences some level of confirmation bias—we see what we expect to see and ignore what doesn’t fit our narrative. SW defending her children and refusing to compromise their safety fed into the Watts’ belief that she was unstable. I don’t actually think that CW agreed that she was unstable, but he certainly used it to manipulate the narrative after the murders, and in his relationship with NK. The latter is actually pretty common (anecdotally—no idea if there is actual research on this). Seems like a lot of guys say things like “she drove me to cheat on her”. I think CW probably never had to be accountable for his actions until now. He described his sister as the “problem child” and he was the good boy. I expect his parents made excuses for his behavior and not for his sister, and he’s never had to learn that there are consequences.

 

[Johnny1181]

If he worked at Anardarko and made roughly $65,000 a year, for 3 years, and contributed maybe 5% ... heck let’s just say he contributed 10% each check (but I HIGHLY doubt it!), he’d probably only have about $20,000 in there. Not much more than that, even if he got a match. No way he had a 401(k), or any other account, with any substantial money in it at 33 years old, with his background and financial habits and debt.

Seems they matched 6% and the market was through the roof at the time. Seems as though he took out a 10K loan although he blamed Shanann which isn't possible she did it. To get 10K he generally would have had to have had 20K in it. Most employers allow a loan for up to 50% of value. jmo

 

[Jennifer17]

If he worked at Anardarko and made roughly $65,000 a year, for 3 years, and contributed maybe 5% ... heck let’s just say he contributed 10% each check (but I HIGHLY doubt it!), he’d probably only have about $20,000 in there. Not much more than that, even if he got a match. No way he had a 401(k), or any other account, with any substantial money in it at 33 years old, with his background and financial habits and debt. And for example, if I work at ABC company and leave, I have to roll my 401(k) over to an IRA type of account. I can’t roll my 401(k) into my new 401(k) at my new job at XYZ company.

I imagine that he had been working for at least 12 years. Wouldn't his previous jobs have paid into that.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I wish the jail reponded to these deranged psychos with crime scene photos of the kids’ bodies being recovered.

Maybe they’d understand evil then.

I don't think it would make one bit of difference to those wackadoodles.

 

[stereopticons]

I can't get over the letters he received from people! I know there are people like this out there, but it was a bit shocking to actually see the letters and the letter senders names revealed. OUTED!

Reading those letters made me nauseous. It was more upsetting than the autopsy reports!

 

[mickey2942]

Where is our Psychologist to answer these for us?
There is someone here, in research, not Clinical, but would love to hear their thoughts.
Previous info by this Poster was most informative: stereo....... (something similar to this).
I understand, it is only through this evidence presented, but perhaps we may receive some ideas that we could discuss.
MOO.

Honestly, I don't think that we have enough information about the Mother, specifics. We have generalizations, and a few sound bites. I am not even sure that "Mommy Blaming" is even appropriate. A lot of MIL's have a contentious relationship with DIL's, but few husbands actually go as far as family annihilation.

CW's Mother probably reacted as most women would act, denial that her son could do such an atrocious act. Then, projection on the victim, to depersonalize her (SW), ignore the children, focus on the "witch" that drove her precious son into a killer. The Mother has ignored the affairs, or acknowledges them, justifying her son's behavior.

Even a Mother in complete denial, can't overlook killing children, and dumping the bodies in oil tanks. She can hate on SW from here to forever, but CW killed those babies. No fit of rage there. No act of passion. That was calculated and deliberate.

I don't think there is enough back story to really develop a comprehensive analysis. But definitely, it seems like an unhealthy dynamic. And, ultimately, CW killed his family. He made the decision, as an adult. We can't blame Mama for that...

 

[sun16]

Wow! Such good info. Thank you for finding this!
6%.... he had a good gig. You're right, the market was at an all time high.

I agree. I don't think Shanann had a clue about that loan. Just another instance of him telling on himself. jmo

Btw.... so impressed with your sleuthing skills! This sight truly never ceases to amaze me

Do the math on him making $65,000, contributing 6%, getting a 6% match (maybe not starting right away) ... and he worked there for 3 years, right. He would not have that much in his account, depending upon what that much means to you. Then take out $10,000 for a loan (which means he had nowhere else to take money from). Taking money out of a 401(k) is not good. They had SERIOUS money problems.

 

[pocketaccent]

Seems they matched 6% and the market was through the roof at the time. Seems as though he took out a 10K loan although he blamed Shanann which isn't possible she did it. To get 10K he generally would have had to have had 20K in it. Most employers allow a loan for up to 50% of value. jmo

S&P 500 went up more than 20% in 2017.

 

[sun16]

Seems they matched 6% and the market was through the roof at the time. Seems as though he took out a 10K loan although he blamed Shanann which isn't possible she did it. To get 10K he generally would have had to have had 20K in it. Most employers allow a loan for up to 50% of value. jmo

I’ve been in financial services for nearly 30 years. Too much to go into here. Chris and Shanann’s finances .... not good.

 

[Johnny1181]

I imagine that he had been working for at least 12 years. Wouldn't his previous jobs have paid into that.

He may have had other 401Ks through other jobs, but there's no guarantee he rolled them over rather than cashing in when he left.

Not all employers offer 401Ks. If they do, each company one works for is a separate 401K. So for instance, if I have had 3 jobs, I may have 3 different 401ks. Each one is separate and when I change jobs the previous employer stops paying in and if the new company offers one I have one again.

I can roll the old ones into the new one, but only myself and the new employer pays in. But not all employers offer 401ks and often employees cash out as they are between jobs and need the money. Does that make sense?

Sorry.... getting in the weeds here lol

 

[Johnny1181]

I don't think it would make one bit of difference to those wackadoodles.

Wackadoodles. SaguaroSpirit....thank you for that much needed spit out my "tea" laugh!!

 

[Johnny1181]

S&P 500 went up more than 20% in 2017.

It was huge.

 

[Thinker Belle]

REVEALED: Chris Watts finalized plan to kill his family at a birthday party then took daughters Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3, home for showers, pizza and a snack before murdering them in their beds


Chris Watts plotted to kill family at a birthday party then fed and showered girls before murders | Daily Mail Online

 

[Johnny1181]

I’ve been in financial services for nearly 30 years. Too much to go into here. Chris and Shanann’s finances .... not good.

Perhaps not. It's expensive to live a duel life.

 

[katikaboom]

The last line “it kept her off his case,” I could go either way on.

On one hand it would give them a common enemy.

On the other hand it would have pitted wife against mother and left him stuck in the middle.

It would and did, bring grief from Shanann.

it's called making someone a meat shield. not joking.

 

[scdiv]

I read in the documents something about Shannan being rebellious in pronouncing her name a different way. It's so much to go back through, but I know it's there.

I have a name that can be pronounced different ways. Years and years ago a cute boy pronounced it different than how I said it and I didn't want to correct him. So I just started going with that. And I liked that better and somehow that just became my name. But my parents still say it the way they named me! So I know it confuses people who knew me a long time ago. Basically everyone thinks that everyone else has it wrong and that I'm just too polite to correct them. Even when I do correct people, they just say it how they want anyways! It doesn't bother me at all. I can totally relate to her parents pronouncing it different than everyone else!

 

[MassGuy]

Honestly, I don't think that we have enough information about the Mother, specifics. We have generalizations, and a few sound bites. I am not even sure that "Mommy Blaming" is even appropriate. A lot of MIL's have a contentious relationship with DIL's, but few husbands actually go as far as family annihilation.

CW's Mother probably reacted as most women would act, denial that her son could do such an atrocious act. Then, projection on the victim, to depersonalize her (SW), ignore the children, focus on the "witch" that drove her precious son into a killer. The Mother has ignored the affairs, or acknowledges them, justifying her son's behavior.

Even a Mother in complete denial, can't overlook killing children, and dumping the bodies in oil tanks. She can hate on SW from here to forever, but CW killed those babies. No fit of rage there. No act of passion. That was calculated and deliberate.

I don't think there is enough back story to really develop a comprehensive analysis. But definitely, it seems like an unhealthy dynamic. And, ultimately, CW killed his family. He made the decision, as an adult. We can't blame Mama for that...

All I need to know about her came from those news interviews.

She didn’t kill anyone, but she did her best to destroy a victim’s reputation.

Coupled with the anecdotal information from the discovery document, it paints a picture of her.

That picture ain’t pretty.