GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #58

[Seattle1]

He was probably eating lots of snacks he bought from the commisary. All the Hostess Garbage, Chip, Candy Bars, Sugar Soda. All for sale to the inmates. Saw lots of people pork out in custody pre sentence!

When you stop working out, you actually lose weight at first because you lose muscle (and muscle is heavier than fat). 40 pounds in 3 months is a lot but not impossible, especially if he had a drastic change in diet, which I assume he did.

Yeah. I’m questioning his ability to do that with a jail diet.

It would all depend on his access to junk food, and there would have to be a lot of it.

This is insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but would a 40 pound weight gain in a few months make sense, taking in to account a jail diet?

Discovery page 47 -- the height/weight info in question appears to be taken directly from his Colorado DL.
(And preparing for a red tshirt issue).....

 

[MassGuy]

Discovery page 47 -- the height/weight info in question appears to be taken directly from his Color DL.
(And preparing for a red tshirt issue).....

Haaaaa. Not the “red shirt!”

 

[Allabouttrial]

Especially since genius Chris gave a presentation on relationships and said sometimes a new baby can help fix marital issues They ended up trying for a new baby around March.

I'm still not convinced SW didn't have a big hand in writing that.

 

[Tortoise]

I just can't imagine being able to suppress it all those years without saying anything to anyone.
ETA: Or it coming out in other ways.

I've had severe depression in my past and I never knew it was the result of 'deadened' anger. Anger that I never even knew I felt, it's like any situation that would normally trigger anger in a person immediately transformed to self-recrimination and then depression. I was shocked to discover it during therapy that I had lasting many years, and I learned that I was very ashamed of anger, probably because of the way I had experienced its effects in the environment I grew up in.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Yup. Those text messages and witness statements give us a much better picture of Shanann and what she was going though, than any Facebook videos ever could.

Yes they do. A very astute therapist surmised in August that we would discover that his treatment of her behind closed doors would be just what the discovery revealed.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Did anyone catch the text from Aug 9 where SW asks if Cw can be there with her to drop Bella off at school for her first day of kindergarten that next Monday? But then his texts with coworkers the evening of the 12th that he is planning to be in the oil fields that Monday morning instead with no mention of needing to be back by a certain time to be there for his daughter. It is more evidence IMO that these murders were completely premeditated and he already knew Bella wouldn’t be attending school that next morning.

Good pick up!

 

[Mo Thuairim]

I have not seen the letter. There is a sample of CW's handwriting in the discovery docs on pg 1152:

View attachment 157224
Christopher Watts discovery file | Garage (Residential) | Bathroom

I agree, probably not relevant now (it won't change his sentence and only adds to the premeditation IMO) but I'm curious if he wrote it or if someone else did.

Yes it appears similar, at least to my non-expert eyes. The writing is a bit messier in the letter than in the report but the I, f and y are written the same way. (From a cursory glance at both. Don't hold me to it!)
It's such a dumb letter though. If he did write it, it doesn't help his case at all. It looks even more like he planned this.
And if his family wrote it... well, I have no words. It would make them certifiably bonkers.

 

[Allabouttrial]

I've had severe depression in my past and I never knew it was the result of 'deadened' anger. Anger that I never even knew I felt, it's like any situation that would normally trigger anger in a person immediately transformed to self-recrimination and then depression. I was shocked to discover it during therapy that I had lasting many years, and I learned that I was very ashamed of anger, probably because of the way I had experienced its effects in the environment I grew up in.

Oh wow, thank you for explaining. That's similar to the question I asked earlier then about CW, maybe, not realising he was so angry and resentful.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I do not think that letter was ever turned over to the DA. Perhaps the defense knew of it but did not see it as valid. Since the case is closed we will not see it unless it comes out some other way, namely CW's family and their pathetic attempt to make excuses for CW.

MRS source said it was handed to the defense and they discarded it! LOL

Yes, I also got chills every time he said "I'll fix it", "It will be fixed".

It's very chilling, Tortoise. He didn't give Shanann or the girls a chance, he hasn't got the normal reasoning skills! His crazy thoughts didn't have to be acted on! Madness!

 

[stereopticons]

I've had severe depression in my past and I never knew it was the result of 'deadened' anger. Anger that I never even knew I felt, it's like any situation that would normally trigger anger in a person immediately transformed to self-recrimination and then depression. I was shocked to discover it during therapy that I had lasting many years, and I learned that I was very ashamed of anger, probably because of the way I had experienced its effects in the environment I grew up in.

Yes, some people internalize anger and it manifests as depression and anxiety, and some people externalize, which manifests as you’d expect anger to—aggression, outbursts, etc.

 

[ReckoningDay]

Thank you. That is very illuminating.

Very sharp observation there! Another lie she told LE Hmmm
Lying liars lie! Who'd a thunk it?

 

[Allabouttrial]

Did anyone catch the text from Aug 9 where SW asks if Cw can be there with her to drop Bella off at school for her first day of kindergarten that next Monday? But then his texts with coworkers the evening of the 12th that he is planning to be in the oil fields that Monday morning instead with no mention of needing to be back by a certain time to be there for his daughter. It is more evidence IMO that these murders were completely premeditated and he already knew Bella wouldn’t be attending school that next morning.

Of course, completely missed that.

 

[fabvab]

After just re-reading part of the discovery docs i am wondering if CW agreed to go on a trip with SW for the weekend (surprising to her since he had been so distant while they were away in NC) and at first was going to have an 'accident' occur in the mountains around Aspen/ but after Saturday nights hot date with NK he couldn't wait any longer to be able to be single

I wondered that too and thought the scenario changed because they had a blow-up after the credit card was denied after SW knew CW had spent $60 at the restaurant. He then ended up losing it and here we are today.

 

[Tortoise]

What if he had a plastic sheet underneath, then washed the sheets and dumped the plastic?

Entirely possible with small children to have plastic wrap under the sheets. Although I've seen no evidence that Bella wasn't dry at night. Also he put the sheets from the master bedroom in the kitchen trash and I don't see why he wouldn't have also put the plastic in the trash - he wasn't expecting them to find that at all.

 

[Tuliptiptoe]

Then why did SW's parents have nothing bad to say about him before the NC trip. They lived with him for over 18 months and surely they would have noticed something, anything?

Its possibly things they didn't notice or brushed off. Subtle jerky things. He also would have been at work a lot.

They mentioned him being short tempered with the kids in NC. It wouldn't surprise me if people start looking back on things now and connecting some dots.

I don't believe the Watts that CW grew up a normal little leaguer without any indications of the man he would become.

And SW must have seen something although she may not have realized it. Not uncommon if she were to blame herself for his issues or make excuses for him (and he prob blamed her too).

Moo

 

[Gardenista]

https://www.coloradoan.com/story/ne...rongful-death-suit-against-christopher-watts/

The day Christopher Watts was sentenced to three life terms in prison for murdering his wife, Shanann, and their two daughters, Shanann Watts' parents filed a wrongful death lawsuit against him.

According to court documents, Shanann's parents, Frank and Sandra Rzucek, are seeking more than $100,000 from their son-in-law for killing Shanann and her daughters, 4-year-old Bella and 3-year-old Celeste, in their Frederick, Colorado, home in August.

They are also suing Watts for unlawfully terminating Shanann's pregnancy, according to court documents.

 

[Gardener1850]

Especially since genius Chris gave a presentation on relationships and said sometimes a new baby can help fix marital issues They ended up trying for a new baby around March.

I actually think the baby could have been part of his long term premeditation plan. I think he thought he could pass it off as if they "tried to save the marriage with a new baby" but it didn't work and she left him. He was so stupid to not see how much worse it would make him look that his wife was pregnant. He was so ignorant of how real life relationships work that he didn't get that no pregnant mother is going to just take her girls and disappear. SW told multiple people the baby was CW's idea and I believe her. She believed it meant he loved her and their family that he wanted a 3rd child. That could not have been further from the truth-- had he ever loved any of them he could not have coldly murdered them. MOO.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Then why did SW's parents have nothing bad to say about him before the NC trip. They lived with him for over 18 months and surely they would have noticed something, anything?

Idk but Scott Peterson’s in-laws were his biggest defenders in the beginning till they learned of the affair. They firmly believed he would have never harmed Laci. I have read that perps like Chris and Scott, void of real emotions and the ability to bond with others means they also don’t have the emotional turmoil that you expect. They went on to say that does not mean they don’t feel anger or rage but it is not a emotion that stays with them. Chris’s emotionless porch interviews - the rage or any grief, if it was there during the murders, was over with.

 

[Jupiter05]

Nothing I have learned about SW makes me think she was bi-polar or unstable in any way, mentally.
Just the opposite. She was steady, reliable, loyal, a perfect mom and wife and a high achiever, married to a lump.
She had high standards and liked to keep organized. Nothing wrong with that, I applaud her dedication and patience.
It must have been so hard for her dealing with the lump she married who never took initiative and basically she had to tell him what to do because he was ineffective.
CW has the charisma of a wet cement.
SW on the other hand, always stole the show because she was bright and vivacious. Must have bugged Mother Watts to no end.

Any instability or craziness is on CW's side.

MOO

I have closet and pantry envy from seeing Shananns videos and pictures! And also she was a wonderful friend to everyone, from what I have read. You have to be a good friend to have such loyal and caring friends as she had/has. That speaks volumes about her IMO.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

A divorce after CeCe was born, debts accumulated and a third child on the way would have also preserved the lives of SW, Bella and Cece.

You are discounting all of their friends who said they were a very happy couple, always had their hands on each other, hugging , kissing holding hands - that is not the body language of an unhappy couple putting on a front for the public. The troubles they had seemed to develope in the few months prior to their murders.

Interestingly, I thought the two pics of CW and NK together, he didn't look happy, imo. He looked happier with Shanann and the girls in pics taken before the NC trip. What to make of that, Idk. Are pictures a reliable source of what's in someone's head, again, Idk.