GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #58

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  • #961
https://www.coloradoan.com/story/ne...rongful-death-suit-against-christopher-watts/

The day Christopher Watts was sentenced to three life terms in prison for murdering his wife, Shanann, and their two daughters, Shanann Watts' parents filed a wrongful death lawsuit against him.

According to court documents, Shanann's parents, Frank and Sandra Rzucek, are seeking more than $100,000 from their son-in-law for killing Shanann and her daughters, 4-year-old Bella and 3-year-old Celeste, in their Frederick, Colorado, home in August.

They are also suing Watts for unlawfully terminating Shanann's pregnancy, according to court documents.
If he’s convicted in his wife’s murder, Watts essentially forfeits his inheritance and her life insurance under the slayer statute, according to David Brantz, an attorney at Kottke and Brantz, LLC in Boulder who focuses on estate planning and probate law. But if he is found not guilty, Brantz said he thinks it’s “extremely likely” that Shanann Watts’ family would file a civil lawsuit alleging Christopher Watts is responsible for her wrongful death.

A wrongful death lawsuit requires the plaintiff to prove “beyond a preponderance of evidence” that the person is responsible for the death, a lower standard than the criminal case requirement of “beyond a reasonable doubt.”
Shanann Watts' family could secure estate with slayer statute, or civil lawsuit if no conviction
 
  • #962
You may be right, of course. However, I read the polygraph report. If you read it from the very beginning - and we know that by that time CW was taking the polygraph test, the family has been annihilated and buried in a bizarre way - you'd read "civil", "never fought", and the whole tragedy is minimized to a very polite discourse over an amicable separation.

SW wrote "love you" in her text to him prior to that fateful night, I think (my timing might be wrong, but shortly before - the one that he did not answer to). This is when the relationship already deteriorated to the extreme.

What I want to say, CW lied so much, he might have been projecting the image of a happy father and husband, while in reality he was deeply dissatisfied with the marriage and family. We can not make any deductions based on the Wattses' demeanour and behaviour. Plus, they were projecting the image of a happy family for the sake of Thrive sales as well. (Not being cynical - they looked like an ideal family on all photos).
To be fair, if we can’t make any deductions based on the Watt’s demeanor and behavior, statements made by friends who knew them, then why are deductions being made about Shan’ann -emotionally unstable- based on her demeanor in the Thrive videos? In his interview with SA Coder he said it was a very emotional conversation that night and he was “bawling his eyes out”. I don’t believe anything he stated though after all the lies and deception,
 
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  • #963
Is it possible he won't contest it?
Since it is a civil trial, will he be able to attend? He should not contest it but if so, I would think the CDOC will not bear the expense of having him securely transferred and guarded. IMO
 
  • #964
Then why did SW's parents have nothing bad to say about him before the NC trip. They lived with him for over 18 months and surely they would have noticed something, anything?
Shanann's parents lived with them? When and where?
 
  • #965
I'm interested in seeing what CW says during the civil trial.

@gitana1 am I correct in my recollection that with a civil Trial, they can force the defendant to answer questions under subpoena? In other words he cannot plead the 5th for questions?
 
  • #966
Since it is a civil trial, will he be able to attend? He should not contest it but if so, I would think the CDOC will not bear the expense of having him securely transferred and guarded. IMO

IDK how it all works, but if he's required to attend, then CDOC will have to bear the expense and then he'll probably be required to repay it.
 
  • #967
About the toys/blankets - were they random toys and blankets or were they the girls comforters ? Many kids have a blanket and/or toy they cannot/will not sleep without.

If they were favourites and he threw them away then he just gets more heartless than I ever thought possible. These comforters are extensions of the little ones, best loved and always well worn. I don't know any parent who could part with such keep sakes. My teenage sons "best friends" sit proudly in their rooms, threadbare but happy - full of happy memories for them and us as parents.
The kids favorite balnkets were the only thinks CW said appeared to be misisng from the house Monday, so in all likelihood, yes he’s that heartless.
 
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  • #968
  • #969
@gitana1 am I correct in my recollection that with a civil Trial, they can force the defendant to answer questions under subpoena? In other words he cannot plead the 5th for questions?
I think that would only apply if he fights it. He hasn't got a leg to stand on with his guilty pleas and conviction. MOO
 
  • #970
Did anyone catch the text from Aug 9 where SW asks if Cw can be there with her to drop Bella off at school for her first day of kindergarten that next Monday? But then his texts with coworkers the evening of the 12th that he is planning to be in the oil fields that Monday morning instead with no mention of needing to be back by a certain time to be there for his daughter. It is more evidence IMO that these murders were completely premeditated and he already knew Bella wouldn’t be attending school that next morning.
Good thinking, Thinker!
 
  • #971
OMG I just remembered, I am going to K-9 demonstration this week. LE will be bringing in two dogs and I can ask, I am sure they will have a question and answer. Not sure though what exactly the two dogs specialty's will be but should be interesting and I will raise the question.
I bet you raise some eyebrows with those questions! Lololol :eek::p
 
  • #972
IIRC, he held Bella's arms up over her head as he fed her down into the hatch, and her little bottom scraped the edge of the hatch opening and strands of her hair clung to the side also.
One really has to picture that image to realize what an evil monster he is, that's why I couldn't understand how his supporters stood by him. It wasn't important in their world, what kind of world is this? This case was always straight forward, imo, just the Watts clan and co. were complicating it.

Exactly. The judge himself described his disposal of the bodies as equally despicable. I could not believe anyone was trying to make out it didn’t or wouldn’t matter because “they were dead anyway”.

The judge specifically said: (BBM)

“And equally aggravating in this courts determination is the despicable act of disposing of the bodies in the manner in which they were in this case.”

My gosh people, they were his daughters. This was his family.

GET A DIVORCE.
 
  • #973
Does anyone recall seeing in the discovery, text messages between (I think) CW and NK, where he states something along the lines of “she supports me. Something similar happened between her parents as a kid”, “are we bad people?”, and something else about a free night in a hotel? I got the impression Shanann was aware of the affair, but I can’t seem to find those texts again... o_O
 
  • #974
Exactly. The judge himself described his disposal of the bodies as equally despicable. I could not believe anyone was trying to make out it didn’t or wouldn’t matter because “they were dead anyway”.

The judge specifically said: (BBM)

“And equally aggravating in this courts determination is the despicable act of disposing of the bodies in the manner in which they were in this case.”

My gosh people, they were his daughters. This was his family.

GET A DIVORCE.

BBM. Or so that he would know where they were and would always be close to him.
Some of those claims were so ludicrous that I don't know how people could have typed it out.
 
  • #975
RSBM.

You’re correct that depressive episodes are quite common, but bipolar requires at least one manic or hypomanic episode which is much less common (~4% among adults). And despite how common mental illness actually is, there is still a huge amount of stigma surrounding it. Women especially are often dismissed as being “crazy”. Of course, I have no way of making a diagnosis without SW’s medical records but I did not see any signs that might point to bipolar. And I think the Watts family was just using it as a derogatory description rather than an actual diagnosis.

Sadly, there is stigma in the community, and it should be dealth with, as help is available. I have noticed that our kids are way more aware and tolerant of psychiatric disorders than our generation.

As to the numbers, they vary by the country, by the researcher, and mostly, by the time period.

"from the mid-1970s to 2000, the rate of mania (variably labeled major affective disorder–bipolar disorder and bipolar I disorder) was consistently identified in US and international studies as ranging from 0.4% to 1.6%. By the late 1990s to the 2000s, the prevalence reported by some researchers for bipolar disorders (I and II and others) was in the 5% to 7% and higher ranges" (NCBI resources). " I have also read a while ago that 1/3 of people diagnosed with depression will eventually be rediagnosed with bipolar disorder. So, true numbers are not really known.

I have never met the diagnosis that would reflect the views and personal opinions of the specialists more than bipolar disorder, with, possibly, the exception of borderline personality disorder. (It, too, is often used in a derogatory way in the community, which is sad as psychotherapy is available to people suffering from it). Also, given than "mood disorder with mixed features" is used more frequently, the whole group of patients with "depression and anxiety" might be moved to "mixed" group as well.

As I have mentioned, neither of us has seen Shanann. If the Wattses merely pulled the diagnosis out of their noses, it is one thing, but it is also possible that Shanann shared something with Chris, and as he discussed it with his parents, they inflated whatever it was to the extreme.

Shanann's situation might have been complicated by lupus. Anyone who is put on steroids might experience depressive or hypomanic epizode, without being diagnosed with affective disorder.
 
  • #976
Does anyone recall seeing in the discovery, text messages between (I think) CW and NK, where he states something along the lines of “she supports me. Something similar happened between her parents as a kid”, “are we bad people?”, and something else about a free night in a hotel? I got the impression Shanann was aware of the affair, but I can’t seem to find those texts again... o_O
I mulled over that one when I read it, then deduced it was NK talking about her friend.
 
  • #977
Does anyone recall seeing in the discovery, text messages between (I think) CW and NK, where he states something along the lines of “she supports me. Something similar happened between her parents as a kid”, “are we bad people?”, and something else about a free night in a hotel? I got the impression Shanann was aware of the affair, but I can’t seem to find those texts again... o_O

I think "Are we bad people" came from NK, and there were many texts from her deleted before this one.
 
  • #978
I think that would only apply if he fights it. He hasn't got a leg to stand on with his guilty pleas and conviction. MOO

Wonder if the family is allowed to say they do not want to settle it and they want it to go to trial to get answers
 
  • #979
Since it is a civil trial, will he be able to attend? He should not contest it but if so, I would think the CDOC will not bear the expense of having him securely transferred and guarded. IMO
I wonder if Cindy and Ronnie will try to interject themselves in the civil suit?
 
  • #980
Did you see that picture of NK dressed in sexy lingerie,standing in the doorway, facing the mirror? She looked hot, and CW was the one who took the photo. I think he really did find the girl of his fantasies in her and did what he did because her preferred spending time with her over his family. I think he probably would have remained faithful until a baby and all the responsibility that comes with one entered their lives.
Sure but there's no telling what NK would have done...she would have either dumped him or stayed, either way eventually doing something wrong and suffering the same fate as SW IMO.
 
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