GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #58

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  • #1,041
We'll see. I really wasn't impressed with their sentencing statements. It seemed to be too much about optics and them trying to salvage their appearance. But I suppose no matter what they said it would be hard to reconcile with their previous statements. And their actions against SW and their grandchildren revealed in the discovery documents are just disgusting.
They could have killed CeCe or Bella with nuts. It wasn't just a petty difference of opinion about rules, it was a dangerous game they were playing to try to make a point and be right (and they were so very wrong). I feel like their actions and SW's declaration that they would never see the children again was a big part of CW's motivation to murder the children too.
Had he only murdered SW and somehow gotten away with telling people she ran away his parents would have eventually exposed the girls to nuts, since they thought SW was lying about that. So he probably felt like he couldn't keep "these kids" as he constantly called them. He couldn't admit to his parents that his kids actually had some health issues and were not perfect. I think there were other things too (like NK's not wanting a man with kids and the fact that it really was a lot of work for him to take care of the kids on his own) but CW's family played a part in his thinking IMO. I doubt they realize that though. I guess we will see what they have to say next. Maybe they will surprise me and admit they were wrong.

Yes. I think his original plan was just to kill his annoying wife.

But once he got 5 weeks of freedom, and then had the girls for that last weekend, it hit him hard. They were getting older and more difficult. They were acting like their mom, the way they were criticizing him and talking back.

He imagined what it would be like, to be solely responsible for them 24/7, financially and physically. No trips out of town or 3 ways, with the girls at home needing his attention. And if NK hinted she wasn't interested in being the new mum, that would make it even worse.
 
  • #1,042
Sorry i worded that bad. I just meant they do not think like jormal rational people. Just leave and be a dead beat. In their mind killing is better. Sorry if i offended anyone. It was not my intention
Oh no worries. I just didn't want you to get an onslaught, so thought I'd ask.
 
  • #1,043
Hi all,

I'm going to start a new thread. Before I do, can anyone let me know if you need/want any posts brought over to the new thread? I've been sick so I'm out of the loop on the latest discussion, but I'll be happy to bring over posts that you all need. Thanks!
#1037 please. And, I hope you don't have what I have! Feel better soon. :)
 
  • #1,044
Yes. I think his original plan was just to kill his annoying wife.

But once he got 5 weeks of freedom, and then had the girls for that last weekend, it hit him hard. They were getting older and more difficult. They were acting like their mom, the way they were criticizing him and talking back.

He imagined what it would be like, to be solely responsible for them 24/7, financially and physically. No trips out of town or 3 ways, with the girls at home needing his attention. And if NK hinted she wasn't interested in being the new mum, that would make it even worse.
Thing is NK said she never even hinted at that to him. So IMO I honestly don't think that was a factor.
 
  • #1,045
I have just been putting together this list of 'potential' difficulties that CW 'may' have faced in childhood. This information is gleened from the information we have discussed so far. Please feel free to correct any information that maybe incorrect or add your own opinion/findings etc. Obviously we do not know these things definitively happened to CW, so they are suggestions of his potential upbringing (rather than fact).


Family enmeshment:

Signs we know of:
Mother over-involvement in CW life and relationship with SW.

Mother disrespects and undermines others beliefs/parenting techniques and boundaries (eg nut incident, comments about SW as a mother)

Power games with them both (e.g. wedding planning, not attending wedding or children's parties, nut incident),

Their identity as a family may be built upon their children’s success. Eg their talk on his past achievements (eg sports, nascar).

Threatened when CW married and moved across the country (eg CW responsible for dads increase in drinking, their comments about SW)

CW may have taken on a caretaker role towards RW’s drinking

Family dynamics look like they were built on power and submission, rather than equality and respect.


Effects of enmeshment on an adult: A failure to adequately develop an individual sense of identity and self-esteem, A difficulty regulating one’s own emotions, feeling controlled by others causing them to emotionally withdraw, negatively affect on relationships, difficulty developing appropriate and balanced friendships and difficulties with trust outside immediate family, fear of intimacy as relationships seen as emotionally draining, may seek out relationships in which they are responsible for caring for a partner, repeating what was learned in childhood.


Fathers substance abuse issues:
The nature of substance abuse can reduce a child's experience with making friends, so later they may have difficulty with intimate relationships. CW does have issues in these areas

Addiction tendencies may be familial -both socially modelled and possible genetic trait?

Impact of growing up with this: overlaps with enmeshment traits, particularly around loss of identity, feelings of responsibility, used to playing the role of the caregiver, may have an excessive need to be in control in order to balance out the chaos in their lives. Or they may constantly need approval, to reassure themselves that they have value. Some become aggressive.


Attachment
Mrs Watts described as cold and overbearing. Although its reported he has a close relationship with his dad, he will still be impacted by his relationship with his mother. There are numerous issues that arise from having an in-secure attachment.


Social modelling
His family have socially modeled the following:

Women are domineering.

Men avoid to cope, rather than confront (eg Dad used substances as a form of escape most likely).

Unkind behaviour towards others

No respect for personal boundaries



Social and emotional development

Guaranteed CW grew up in an invalidating environment.

Emotions likely to not be acknowledged let alone expressed, which is a huge issue as this causes someone to lack emotional awareness and stunts development.

Love and kindness probably 'rewarded' only when doing something right. Therefore, love becomes associated with doing what someone else wants, not inherently given. This will be linked to wanting to be seen as ‘good’.

Socially he had few friends and lacked a dating history. The question remains why was that? Lack of interest, fear of parental opinion? Etc. This isn’t always an issue, however in this case it is suggests why he was so excited by the prospect of the affair he was having and the thrill he was getting from this.

Supposedly his sister was 'naughty'. This may be a sign of issues at home (although cannot definitely say this). However, children take up roles in a family. CW has taken up the 'good' boy role, which would be a partial contributor to why he wants to save face and be seen as ‘good’


Empathy

Others say he was kind and caring

Seems empathic towards NK. Why? (Concerned about her being dragged in to the case).

Important to differentiate between empathy and sympathy. Psychopaths and sociopaths use empathy (not sympathy) to learn about a person and use this in a self-fulfilling manner (eg for their own purpose).

Psychopath vs sociopath – no criminal history that we are aware, indicates CW is not a psychopath, but rather a sociopath.



** There is obviously a lot more that can be added to this””

Bravo post!
 
  • #1,046
I have just been putting together this list of 'potential' difficulties that CW 'may' have faced in childhood. This information is gleened from the information we have discussed so far. Please feel free to correct any information that maybe incorrect or add your own opinion/findings etc. Obviously we do not know these things definitively happened to CW, so they are suggestions of his potential upbringing (rather than fact).


Family enmeshment:

Signs we know of:
Mother over-involvement in CW life and relationship with SW.

Mother disrespects and undermines others beliefs/parenting techniques and boundaries (eg nut incident, comments about SW as a mother)

Power games with them both (e.g. wedding planning, not attending wedding or children's parties, nut incident),

Their identity as a family may be built upon their children’s success. Eg their talk on his past achievements (eg sports, nascar).

Threatened when CW married and moved across the country (eg CW responsible for dads increase in drinking, their comments about SW)

CW may have taken on a caretaker role towards RW’s drinking

Family dynamics look like they were built on power and submission, rather than equality and respect.


Effects of enmeshment on an adult: A failure to adequately develop an individual sense of identity and self-esteem, A difficulty regulating one’s own emotions, feeling controlled by others causing them to emotionally withdraw, negatively affect on relationships, difficulty developing appropriate and balanced friendships and difficulties with trust outside immediate family, fear of intimacy as relationships seen as emotionally draining, may seek out relationships in which they are responsible for caring for a partner, repeating what was learned in childhood.


Fathers substance abuse issues:
The nature of substance abuse can reduce a child's experience with making friends, so later they may have difficulty with intimate relationships. CW does have issues in these areas

Addiction tendencies may be familial -both socially modelled and possible genetic trait?

Impact of growing up with this: overlaps with enmeshment traits, particularly around loss of identity, feelings of responsibility, used to playing the role of the caregiver, may have an excessive need to be in control in order to balance out the chaos in their lives. Or they may constantly need approval, to reassure themselves that they have value. Some become aggressive.


Attachment
Mrs Watts described as cold and overbearing. Although its reported he has a close relationship with his dad, he will still be impacted by his relationship with his mother. There are numerous issues that arise from having an in-secure attachment.


Social modelling
His family have socially modeled the following:

Women are domineering.

Men avoid to cope, rather than confront (eg Dad used substances as a form of escape most likely).

Unkind behaviour towards others

No respect for personal boundaries



Social and emotional development

Guaranteed CW grew up in an invalidating environment.

Emotions likely to not be acknowledged let alone expressed, which is a huge issue as this causes someone to lack emotional awareness and stunts development.

Love and kindness probably 'rewarded' only when doing something right. Therefore, love becomes associated with doing what someone else wants, not inherently given. This will be linked to wanting to be seen as ‘good’.

Socially he had few friends and lacked a dating history. The question remains why was that? Lack of interest, fear of parental opinion? Etc. This isn’t always an issue, however in this case it is suggests why he was so excited by the prospect of the affair he was having and the thrill he was getting from this.

Supposedly his sister was 'naughty'. This may be a sign of issues at home (although cannot definitely say this). However, children take up roles in a family. CW has taken up the 'good' boy role, which would be a partial contributor to why he wants to save face and be seen as ‘good’


Empathy

Others say he was kind and caring

Seems empathic towards NK. Why? (Concerned about her being dragged in to the case).

Important to differentiate between empathy and sympathy. Psychopaths and sociopaths use empathy (not sympathy) to learn about a person and use this in a self-fulfilling manner (eg for their own purpose).

Psychopath vs sociopath – no criminal history that we are aware, indicates CW is not a psychopath, but rather a sociopath.



** There is obviously a lot more that can be added to this””
Thank you @Mitch11. Very, very informative.
 
  • #1,047
Thing is NK said she never even hinted at that to him. So IMO I honestly don't think that was a factor.
If you believe her and I do not. She did express it to someone and it is not such a reach for me to think that she may have said it to him.
 
  • #1,048
Yes. I think his original plan was just to kill his annoying wife.

But once he got 5 weeks of freedom, and then had the girls for that last weekend, it hit him hard. They were getting older and more difficult. They were acting like their mom, the way they were criticizing him and talking back.

He imagined what it would be like, to be solely responsible for them 24/7, financially and physically. No trips out of town or 3 ways, with the girls at home needing his attention. And if NK hinted she wasn't interested in being the new mum, that would make it even worse.
I definitely think that contributed in his mind. In the discovery file it mentions that NK said she didnt know if he was the one. She didnt want kids and a person that had been married before. I’m paraphrasing here but i was like omg. I bet in his mind that was his way of getting rid of that. I literally got sick to my stomach when i read that. And no NK did not kill anyone so i am not saying that at all but i think in his mind- that was just another push to annihilate his family
 
  • #1,049
If you believe her and I do not. She did express it to someone and it is not such a reach for me to think that she may have said it to him.
Hard to tell what's truth and what isn't. I don't believe everything I've read in discovery from others either though. So who knows.
 
  • #1,050
I really think he might have walked away from this, without prison time, if he had called 911, and said that SW killed the babies. I don't think there would have been any evidence otherwise. It would be his word against a dead woman's word.

If he called 911, then lawyered up, he probably would be sitting in that house, as a widowed bachelor, right now.

In the documents, his father said that he was going to get him a lawyer. I wonder what happened with that and what his efforts were?
 
  • #1,051
  • #1,052
I hope CW saw that. While he was planning the task of annihilating his entire family and hiding their bodies, NK was having "house guests". I hope he feels betrayal in the biggest way. It's the least he deserves.

Perhaps some of his female groupies will get jealous, and tell him that in a jail letter?
 
  • #1,053
Thing is NK said she never even hinted at that to him. So IMO I honestly don't think that was a factor.
She said in the police interviews she didnt- but she already has proved herself as not 100% truthful so i’m not convinced she didnt say something in passing about it and just didnt think about it.
 
  • #1,054
He looks pretty pasty and unremarkable without his tan and mangina.
Pathetic little man. He's a monster in sheep's clothing.

moo

How tall is he?
 
  • #1,055
She said in the police interviews she didnt- but she already has probed herself as not 100% truthful so i’m not convinced she didnt say something in passing about it and just didnt think about it.
Very true!
 
  • #1,056
  • #1,057
Hi all,

I'm going to start a new thread. Before I do, can anyone let me know if you need/want any posts brought over to the new thread? I've been sick so I'm out of the loop on the latest discussion, but I'll be happy to bring over posts that you all need. Thanks!

Please bring over this one #1028: GUILTY - CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #58

I think it merits more discussion :)

Feel better soon litexans!
 
  • #1,058
Yes. I think his original plan was just to kill his annoying wife.

But once he got 5 weeks of freedom, and then had the girls for that last weekend, it hit him hard. They were getting older and more difficult. They were acting like their mom, the way they were criticizing him and talking back.

He imagined what it would be like, to be solely responsible for them 24/7, financially and physically. No trips out of town or 3 ways, with the girls at home needing his attention. And if NK hinted she wasn't interested in being the new mum, that would make it even worse.
Yep. No texts about green beans and grocery shopping. The mundaneness of family life would soon be no more.
 
  • #1,059
I had read in discovery that he refused medication while incarcerated at the Weld County Jail.
Maybe he's no longer on Thrive, and that's slowed him down. MOO
 
  • #1,060
I wonder if they have him on some anti depressants or something that would aid in the weught gain. I know my sister in law gained like 50 pounds in 3 months from them.
We all saw him in court a week ago!! The 225# weight reported on his inmate intake is directly from his Colorado DL which was probably accurate at the date his license was issued. I don't believe 225 his actual weight today. MOO
 
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