GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #59

[Deleted member 229974]

Still got a smug look on his face. I showed those babies who is boss.

What an animal he is. Used his boot. I’d like to put my boot up his ***!

 

[margarita25]

(Hi everyone . In case anyone is wondering, I have not posted here yet because I’m still reading the discovery documents (WOW) and am only on page 700 and don’t want any spoilers. I also want to be able to be completely informed about everything before I read and comment further.

Additionally, I have not been able to read any of the threads here since the hearing and PC last Monday so I also have 8 days and thousands of posts to catch up on.

I will also then of course have infinite responses to everything I’ve read in the discovery and within these posts.

So I guess I’ll be able to join you guys in a couple weeks...I don’t know how all you guys are keeping up with all this! I’m reading literally every chance I get.)

PS- I WILL say that my heart breaks for Shanann a million times over.

 

[MJPeony]

The letter might as well have stated "If something happens to my wife and children, like oh if later this summer they are strangled and smothered and dumped, I would never do that. Oh but my wife might. Just saying." Makes NO sense. This is part of sister and mother Watts' brilliant scheme to "fight, fight to the end." They actually thought concocting a letter like this would be helpful. Evil idiocy. MOO.

Yes, it makes no sense to me that CW even wrote that letter. Primarily b/c it seems clear that the whole "blame my wife" story, which he says in this letter, was not something he'd even thought of until it was strategically suggested to him by the detective. So IMO the letter, if it exists, was made by someone after-the-fact trying to make dots connect in CW's favor.

 

[mrjitty]

C'mon mrjitty - she didn't know where they were but she could still help the police do their jobs as soon as she knew what this was smelling of. We don't know how she came forward but it sure wasn't soon enough.

Agreed.

 

[x_files]

Interestingly, he told the investigator he did have girlfriends/dates before Shanann when he spoke about jealousy in their relationship, and Shanann being jealous when he heard from other girls while dating her. So which is the truth? He might have had a string of girlfriends just no one he was serious enough about to inflict Mama Watts on!

She probably scared them all off in HS/college years!

 

[Deleted member 229974]

I hope NK does not profit with a book deal. While I understand HE is fully responsible, and people have affairs, I also do not believe she should profit from this beautiful family’s death. Is there a way for the family to stop her? Not saying she is going to do that.

Of course she will, she’s going to need the money since nobody will employ her.

 

[RachB65]

PDF page 506, Discovery page 573

NICHOL recalled next talking to CHRIS on Monday, August 12. She said she did not hear a lot from CHRIS that day. He texted and said it was a busy day. Nothing he said was alarming that day. She said she left work at 3 pm according to her timecard. She returned home to a good friend, JIM (she refused to provide his last name and said he does not know anything about this event and does not know CHRIS). JIM was her house guest on Monday. She said JIM is a very close friend but they do not date each other.

ok well the date on Monday was the 13th so she was obviously wrong about that.
Jim was waiting for her when she returned home? And spent the nite....Hmmm. He doesn't know Chris but is a very close friend she did not date. A FWB perhaps.

Edited to delete extraneous irrelevant text

 

[celticthyme]

AMEN. I will never forget, "What happened to Chris? Shanann happened to Chris!" Who says that about their dead daughter in law??

What happened to Chris? My impression is that during the weeks she was gone, he had a taste of what it would be like to be his own person. With a new love interest in the picture, I think he was just so done with the whole "family" thing. He was trying to support a lifestyle they could not support. With that kind of debt vs income ratio, in most states, they would not even qualify to get into such an expensive (for them) home. Maintaining that image of living the "perfect" life had to be a mental pressure cooker, given they were basically trying to live on his income. Meeting "Miss Wonderful", who had no entanglements had to be very appealing to him. Too bad he didn't have the balls and maturity to just walk away and take the consequences. If he could have just said, I don't want this life any more. I've met someone else. It would have been a social nightmare for him, but he would not have ended the lives of 3 people and be looking at the same 4 walls for the rest of his life. MOO

 

[Layla123]

See below posts for some examples of her lies.
Thanks for taking all the time for putting this together. I’m still at a place that is less critical of her, and it’s probably because I think her life is ruined because of this, and I don’t think she deserves it.














Also she was inconsistent in her interview statements. At first she said she had only been to CW's house once and "only for 15 minutes" Discovery page 380:

View attachment 157302

But later she said she had been to his house twice.
Discovery page 569:
View attachment 157304
She tried to make it sound like she had barely been to his house and it was "brief"
but note that she also says he cooked her lunch and set up apps on his phone. That sounds like a longer visit than 15 minutes to me. Also on page 570 she says she saw his workout equipment and bed in the basement while at his house:
View attachment 157305

This wasn't a quick bite to eat and then out the door IMO. They hung out there and probably had sex there. She tried to make it seem like she was telling him he should work on his marriage but her text messages tell a different story. She wasn't breaking up with him or telling him he needed to stop calling her until he was divorced. She says on page 570 that they talked on the phone "all the time".

She claimed to have met him in May or June and that she did not know Shanann's name for a while (Discovery page 568), but her phone shows she searched for CW and SW in Sept 2017 and Jan 2018 (I think those have previously been linked here so I'm not going to try to find them again)
View attachment 157303

I don't think she had previous knowledge of the murders and I don't think she was necessarily malicious in her lies to the police and her lies to the public (the majority of what she said in the Denver post article was false). But she did lie quite a bit and tried to paint herself in a good light. I don't buy for a minute that she told Chris to "work on his marriage" while simultaneously having sex with him 4-5 nights a week. She said that because she knew it looked bad on her to have the affair. She told CW to pawn SW's ring when SW was missing-- does that sound like someone who hoped her lover would work on his marriage and told him to do that just a week or two before? Or does it sound more like a mistress who was gleefully thinking she had "won" the man in the end? She lied and she tried to minimize her involvement with CW and minimize how much she knew about CW's marriage. She tried to make herself sound naive. But later she would google search how much Amber Frey's book deal was. I don't believe she is naive- 0ther than perhaps thinking she could delete her texts and that police wouldn't find them-- she Google searched that too.

MOO.

Thanks for putting all this together, I truly appreciate the time you’ve spent to do it, but I still can’t bring myself to view NK in black and white terms, I see so much gray area in there. I’ve been a witness before, and it’s hard. I didn’t remember everything all at once, either, or speak out everything that I remembered when it came to my mind along with a lot of other thoughts. So many things pop into your head all at once, you go off on tangents, it’s hard to do. NK did go back several times to tell them everything she could remember. I don’t think she intended to deceive them. When she walked in there she hated CW and never wanted to see him again. I don’t see why she would lie. For example, I think it’s possible to do both, have sex with a guy and tell him to work on his marriage. I think CW gave her so many mixed messages, I can see her being very confused and unsure about everything. She did tell her friend it was the best sex she ever had, and when that happens to you, that can really mess up your mind. And I’m not defending the adultery, but I have to admit that I have 3 brother in laws who are happily married to women they committed adultery with in their first marriages. I know it is a mess, and a drama for everyone around them, but years later, when it’s all said and done, they’re probably all a lot happier than they were in their first marriages. I can’t hate everyone who commits adultery.
I can understand how nervous and scared NK must have been the first time she was interviewed by the cops. I don’t believe she intended to mislead or lie to them. She had to have been horrified. She may have forgotten, or it maybe it all didn’t come to her mind at the time. She did go back and tell them more. As for her google searches, overnight, instantly, she did become like Amber Frye. That had to have been shocking to realize. She googled her train of thoughts as she was figuring the whole mess out. I do that all the time as thoughts come to my head. I love google. It doesn’t mean she’s going to write a book and make a lot of money. Everything CW told her was a lie, and from the looks of things it would mostly be a book. Would she do that? If she did I’d hate her, but I can’t condemn someone for her private thoughts that she never imagined the world would see. I don’t think all this should have been released. How does it serve the investigation? I guess it proves she wasn’t an accomplice, but she’s a victim of CW, too.

 

[Sir Arthur]

One of the saddest thing I've ever read in my life.

Shanann to CW, Aug 6, Discovery page 2104
(Right after CW told her that he doesn't want the baby)

"You hold me after that conversation, you hold me. If you want this to f***ing last you make me feel safe after that bomb...Don't you get it? Shanann added, "How many times do I have to ask you to hold me? You hate me that much?"

Just typing this out makes me emotional. OMG I just want to hold her tight so badly.

This is something I haven’t seen/read. Could someone point me to where there’s more than the 1900page discovery pfd?
I thought I had read it all and I’ve been reading comments with pages long after. Was there maybe additional discovery added?
Thanks in advance

 

[Layla123]

Oh yes, she was so special. @@. She couldn’t hold a candle to Shanann.

I have to agree, but it’s clear to me that SW married way beneath her. She never should married CW.

 

[Madison418]

What happened to Chris? My impression is that during the weeks she was gone, he had a taste of what it would be like to be his own person. With a new love interest in the picture, I think he was just so done with the whole "family" thing. He was trying to support a lifestyle they could not support. With that kind of debt vs income ratio, in most states, they would not even qualify to get into such an expensive (for them) home. Maintaining that image of living the "perfect" life had to be a mental pressure cooker, given they were basically trying to live on his income. Meeting "Miss Wonderful", who had no entanglements had to be very appealing to him. Too bad he didn't have the balls and maturity to just walk away and take the consequences. If he could have just said, I don't want this life any more. I've met someone else. It would have been a social nightmare for him, but he would not have ended the lives of 3 people and be looking at the same 4 walls for the rest of his life. MOO

So many factors at play, so many illogical thought processes and delusion IMO

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Thanks for putting all this together, I truly appreciate the time you’ve spent to do it, but I still can’t bring myself to view NK in black and white terms, I see so much gray area in there. I’ve been a witness before, and it’s hard. I didn’t remember everything all at once, either, or speak out everything that I remembered when it came to my mind along with a lot of other thoughts. So many things pop into your head all at once, you go off on tangents, it’s hard to do. NK did go back several times to tell them everything she could remember. I don’t think she intended to deceive them. When she walked in there she hated CW and never wanted to see him again. I don’t see why she would lie. For example, I think it’s possible to do both, have sex with a guy and tell him to work on his marriage. I think CW gave her so many mixed messages, I can see her being very confused and unsure about everything. She did tell her friend it was the best sex she ever had, and when that happens to you, that can really mess up your mind. And I’m not defending the adultery, but I have to admit that I have 3 brother in laws who are happily married to women they committed adultery with in their first marriages. I know it is a mess, and a drama for everyone around them, but years later, when it’s all said and done, they’re probably all a lot happier than they were in their first marriages. I can’t hate everyone who commits adultery.
I can understand how nervous and scared NK must have been the first time she was interviewed by the cops. I don’t believe she intended to mislead or lie to them. She had to have been horrified. She may have forgotten, or it maybe it all didn’t come to her mind at the time. She did go back and tell them more. As for her google searches, overnight, instantly, she did become like Amber Frye. That had to have been shocking to realize. She googled her train of thoughts as she was figuring the whole mess out. I do that all the time as thoughts come to my head. I love google. It doesn’t mean she’s going to write a book and make a lot of money. Everything CW told her was a lie, and from the looks of things it would mostly be a book. Would she do that? If she did I’d hate her, but I can’t condemn someone for her private thoughts that she never imagined the world would see. I don’t think all this should have been released. How does it serve the investigation? I guess it proves she wasn’t an accomplice, but she’s a victim of CW, too.

I don’t feel it was necessary to release all the information that was released either. I feel that it could hinder future investigations. There are many people who are hesitant to come forward or call in tips the way it is.
jmo

 

[Thepoet]

What happened to Chris? My impression is that during the weeks she was gone, he had a taste of what it would be like to be his own person. With a new love interest in the picture, I think he was just so done with the whole "family" thing. He was trying to support a lifestyle they could not support. With that kind of debt vs income ratio, in most states, they would not even qualify to get into such an expensive (for them) home. Maintaining that image of living the "perfect" life had to be a mental pressure cooker, given they were basically trying to live on his income. Meeting "Miss Wonderful", who had no entanglements had to be very appealing to him. Too bad he didn't have the balls and maturity to just walk away and take the consequences. If he could have just said, I don't want this life any more. I've met someone else. It would have been a social nightmare for him, but he would not have ended the lives of 3 people and be looking at the same 4 walls for the rest of his life. MOO[/QUOTbe looking at the same 4 walls for the rest of his lifeE]
!

Maybe somewhere, in the depths of his frightening mind, he wanted to "be looking at the same 4 walls for the rest of his life"! Maybe he wanted to be punished. He made a lot of stupid mistakes!

 

[Madison418]

So I just finished skimming through the discovery report and wow. Just wow. The summary of the electronic communications, searches etc at the end of the report is remarkable and utterly sad. They clearly do not like NK. To point out that that was "by no means the only time she searched for adult videos" (or something to that effect). How is that relevant? They just wanted to punish her IMO

 

[Tortoise]

What happened to Chris? My impression is that during the weeks she was gone, he had a taste of what it would be like to be his own person. With a new love interest in the picture, I think he was just so done with the whole "family" thing. He was trying to support a lifestyle they could not support. With that kind of debt vs income ratio, in most states, they would not even qualify to get into such an expensive (for them) home. Maintaining that image of living the "perfect" life had to be a mental pressure cooker, given they were basically trying to live on his income. Meeting "Miss Wonderful", who had no entanglements had to be very appealing to him. Too bad he didn't have the balls and maturity to just walk away and take the consequences. If he could have just said, I don't want this life any more. I've met someone else. It would have been a social nightmare for him, but he would not have ended the lives of 3 people and be looking at the same 4 walls for the rest of his life. MOO

You don't think there was a sociopathic component to these murders? He just went from doting dad to being done with the 'family thing', snuff out their lives and stand up the same day smiling?

MOO

 

[Sir Arthur]

I agree.

Same here.

 

[GraceVPrice]

So I just finished skimming through the discovery report and wow. Just wow. The summary of the electronic communications, searches etc at the end of the report is remarkable and utterly sad. They clearly do not like NK. To point out that that was "by no means the only time she searched for adult videos" (or something to that effect). How is that relevant? They just wanted to punish her IMO

agree. the side comments in an official report were weird and unnecessary. Made it seem very unprofessional.

 

[Madison418]

I haven't made a list, but just off the top of my head, these are some of the things that point toward premeditation, with number 8 being the most damning. MOO

1. The letter that states to look at Shanann if anything happened.
2. While in NC, CW told NK his divorce was final.
3. CW told Shanann not to reveal the baby’s gender.
4. CW used the credit card on August 11 at the Lazy Dog with NK.
5. CW told NK that he wouldn’t be in the office Monday morning.
6. CW told his co-worker that he was going directly to CERVI 319 Monday morning and assured him that he didn’t need help.
7. CW was suddenly no longer interested in finding an apartment the weekend of the murders.
8. No panic. No grief. CW’s co-workers said CW acted normal.

That is a solid summary

 

[Tortoise]

agree. the side comments in an official report were weird and unnecessary. Made it seem very unprofessional.

I thought the same. I had wondered if it was to aid the slant that the prosecution would have put on their case had it proceeded to trial, narrative building. Possibly.