GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #59

[Jupiter05]

I'm not sure. Wasn't that only said by CW in his interviews when he was trying to blame SW for everything? I'm not taking his word for it. Did we get anything else showing that they were behind on the mortgage?

We did not.

 

[esayer]

Are we really trying to justify the actions of a monster who brutally strangled his wife and smothered his little girls and then discarded them as trash? Wow I can’t even comprehend what SW family would be feeling if they have been reading the last few pages.....

One person is, and everyone else is setting them straight.

 

[book-thinker]

My curiosity is leading me to believe, the investigators perhaps suspected NK was connected somehow to the murders, beyond being the mistress. NK deleting texts, to asking her best friend to delete text and fb. If I was a betting person, which I'm not, she knows more on this investigations than she letting on.

 

[NanZDrew]

I agree. And in his mind, they were gone already and he was going to make that happen. Chilling.

I think quite likely he was trying to spur Shanann into action. He would never admit an affair to her, but his behavior was indicating it. I think that was his cowardly way of provoking and/or hurting her.

 

[celticthyme]

celticthyme, I feel for you regarding your abusive times.
Hope you moved on, and are happy now.
Your line "As dreams become shattered, mental anguish and chaos take over", is what happened here, with Shan'ann trying to work things out, whereas CW wanted his freedom.

Yes, that is what I was trying to say, though not very well. It's what I meant by 2 tracks. She wanted to try and make things work. And in his mind, he was already emotionally out of there. That it led to his actions following this is just so unreal. The term that comes to mind for him is malignant narcissist. Who knows when he actually began to plot their demise in his head.

 

[molly1255]

Again, I'm not making excuses for CW. From the mountains of FB and other media sights Shanann shared her thoughts about her work and her life. CW appeared to take an active and happy role in the family from her videos. BUT, none of us can really know what goes on behind closed doors, (my life is living proof of that, having been married to an abusive physician.) I think that by the time summer came around, that marriage was in big trouble. SW leaving for several weeks, going half way across the country speaks volumes to that. My heart aches for what she must have been going through. We have expectations that making a life with the person we love, will bring joy and fulfillment. As dreams become shattered, mental anguish and chaos take over. Trying to sort out and deal with all of these emotions takes a huge toll. And there are children in the middle of all of this. As time went on, in the summer, I think CW felt a sense of freedom from his responsibilities, and I think SW was sensing that her world was falling apart. All of this is a lot of speculation on my part.

JMO, he wore a mask throughout his entire relationship with SW. This was never normal relationship. SW thought it was. He went along with the program and he put on quite an act because he was getting "supply", beautiful wife, nice house, trips, cute kids, etc. Shanann did everything. He got bored with SW, and that was inevitably going to happen. It was also inevitable, IMO, that something hideous and beyond horrible was going to happen with this guy. Because he is that evil and twisted.

CW is a family annihilator but he also has a very serious personality disorder. I know what these are and I don't need to be a mental health professional to state the obvious. He has no empathy, no remorse, no conscience, he's a con artist and the list goes on and on. He's textbook.

He was able to pull off his "act" because people filled the blanks for him. He was a quiet introvert. He appeared to be harmless and he gained social acceptance by being married to SW, so people thought he was a good guy, mostly because Shanann said he was. The monster Shanann saw the last six weeks of her life is the real CW, IMO.

There is no way to "normalize" Chris Watts and he's not capable of a normal, loving relationship. He can act as if he's normal. This is how normal he is - he giggled in his interview with investigators on Wednesday. That's how confident he was that he was going to get away with it. That's how sorry he felt about what he'd done.

He's either a sociopath or a psychopath. My opinion is he is a psychopath. Hopefully, he'll be evaluated and we learn his diagnosis.

All JMO

 

[curiouschat]

It's not about "liking," it is about misrepresentation. Maybe read up a bit more before posting false facts and suppositions. Your comment that CW murderer was trying his best is actually offensive in light of all that we know as FACT, not insinuation or assumption or blatant Ma, Pa, Sis and Christopher Watts lies.

wait where did I say he was trying his best?

 

[Tortoise]

Interesting find Discovery document pg 1060. Notes received Sept. 4, 2018 from NK.
NK provided a 7 page typed document, containing notes of events she had recalled, document was given after meeting with CBI Koback several time before.. The events occurred between 6/25/18 through 8/13/18. NK questioned CW about the marriage, and how SW treated him. SW didn't pay enough attention to him, and she wasn't more supportive of him. It was all about me, me, me...
The kicker is on approximately 6/27/18. NK notes Chris bring condoms over to the house. One box unopened, second a
partially used box. NK asked him why is one box partially used, his reply the condoms are from back when he was still having sex with his wife. The condoms were sitting in the closet collecting dust.
NK has a exceptional capacity for remembering details! Thats all I give her.

I feel you missed the punch line - NK knew he was lying about the opened condoms because she worked out the purchase date from the expiry date. So she wasn't quite on board with his stories IMO.

 

[The Farm]

I'm not sure. Wasn't that only said by CW in his interviews when he was trying to blame SW for everything? I'm not taking his word for it. Did we get anything else showing that they were behind on the mortgage?

I saw the HOA and mention of the bankruptcy possibly but do not remember seeing anything in the docs on the mortgage,,,,which means nothing because there is a lot to process in the docs and I have missed some things.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

What typically happens at a review hearing such as this one scheduled for January 28th.? @Amandaaa, @gitana1, @Mrspratcher

The filing also states that Watts' "confession," in which he blames Shanann for the deaths of Bella and Celeste, was another attempt to "maliciously and fraudulently" mislead investigators.

Colorado law states wrongful death lawsuits may be heard in front of a judge or jury. The case is set for a review hearing Jan. 28.

Shanann Watts' family files wrongful death lawsuit against son-in-law Christopher Watts

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Mmm, it's tempting to think they wrote it - I did before I saw the wording of it. Even the placement of himself in the line up "myself, my children or my wife" he's right there at the front of people he would never hurt. Narcissist couldn't help himself - this letter was about him. He would never hurt himself and if something happens to HIM what they should do.

I think it's clearly a plan that didn't come to fruition because it makes no sense at all in the context of him having confessed within 3 days to killing Shanann and then 3 months later to murdering them all. It couldn't even be used by his defense attorneys so if it was written by his family I don't see what it would achieve. Please investigate my murdered wife for nothing that happened to me. It holds no value, except in trying to work out what his plan was at the time it was written.

I agree, CW could very well have written it, the problem I have is with mama Watts holding this sealed envelope without opening it. Unless, my mind is ticking over now, he kept it somewhere safe and told his dad where to find it. Wouldn't the police be all over it if CW was communicating secretly to his dad about a hidden letter? The letter is the weirdest thing ever, not quite up there with the Ramsey's ransom note, but close!

 

[The Farm]

Please people let's just move on as I would hate to see the thread get closed down.

 

[curiouschat]

Where is this letter people are talking about at? I only saw some mention of it at the press conference afterword I believe and it didn't seem to be part of the investigation?

 

[Lore Listener]

I’m not sure. The public at large is likely still under the impression that she is a bit of a hero in all of this.

Those of us who have followed the case closely, know this to be untrue.

Unfortunately, I think we are in the minority here.

I have a fantasy that Jon Krakauer will write one of his wonderful journalistic books about this case. He has such a talent for tying to the tragic stories of individual people in with larger societal issues, oftentimes the outdoors/environment as well, and making the whole tapestry deeply personal for the reader. I see a lot of parallels in this tragedy with the story of the modern oil & gas industry (which both CW & NK worked for) in Colorado and Colorado politics, as well as some themes about generational abuse patterns and the rise of narcissism and social media in our culture.

Sorry for geeking out there. Love Krakauer.

 

[NuttMegg]

Please people let's just move on as I would hate to see the thread get closed down.

OK I'm in.

 

[The Farm]

Where is this letter people are talking about at? I only saw some mention of it at the press conference afterword I believe and it didn't seem to be part of the investigation?

I saw it posted here somewhere this morning, I think we are still on the same thread.

 

[NuttMegg]

I have a fantasy that Jon Krakauer will write one of his wonderful journalistic books about this case. He has such a talent for tying to the tragic stories of individual people in with larger societal issues, oftentimes the outdoors/environment as well, and making the whole tapestry deeply personal for the reader. I see a lot of parallels in this tragedy with the story of the modern oil & gas industry (which both CW & NK worked for) in Colorado and Colorado politics, as well as some themes about generational abuse patterns and the rise of narcissism and social media in our culture.

Sorry for geeking out there. Love Krakauer.

Into thin Air....5 readings so far. Maybe he would be attracted to a story like that of the Watts.

 

[Jupiter05]

I'm not here to bash her I was asking if there was more discussion or info on that which was a direct quote from the info dump. I don't understand why you're attacking me like this. I no way said or meant she or the babies deserved to die even if it was true, nor that I knew if it was true. I just find it all confusing. Jesus.

You are wanting to discuss the lies that CW's family spouted. They are LIES so why would you even go there? They are baseless, false and mean spirited and are only in the discovery because of the interviews. If you feel attacked, then I would suggest you read the rules of this site again and realize that you are coming off a bit like the Watts family and "friends". You sound like you are trying to make SW look bad and that will not fly here.

 

[NanZDrew]

Some other things that jumped out at me from the docu-dump that I haven't really seen discussed. Though I may have missed it. Discovery page 2102 Shannan texted "would you stay with me if I didn't have the kids." If it /had/ gone to trial this seems like it would have looked bad for the possibility of her killing them? (I know it could also be her picking up on his coldness to the kids and /his/ wanting them gone) .

Also I'm not sure where it was at but I thought there was talk of bad blood in the past with her and others about money and I'm just not seeing how she could possibly be making that much with the MLM thing. Though I suppose some people somehow make money on it. I've heard of people going into debt buying product to reach a level of sales. I just don't feel like we have the whole picture.

Here's the thing from discovery page 596 (and I am NOT saying she deserved to die I just find a lot of things perplexing in this case)
"SHANANN got their policies through his cousin’s wife (NICOLE KENNEDY), so he does not know how much they were.
 SHANANN and NICOLE had a falling out over a “money thing.”
 He believed NICOLE and SHANANN’s old boss believed SHANANN had embezzled money from the business."

You have to read this in context of the other messages that she had sent one of which said that it was not justifiable for him to just stay with her because of the kids. She was clearly asking him if he would have already been gone, if they were childless. No way she this meant that she was threatening to kill the kids to keep him.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I saw the HOA and mention of the bankruptcy possibly but do not remember seeing anything in the docs on the mortgage,,,,which means nothing because there is a lot to process in the docs and I have missed some things.

PDF page 529, Discovery page 596

He knew when the kids returned to school that they would be living paycheck to paycheck.
SHANANN recently took out $10,000.00 from his 401k to catch up on their mortgage payments. CHRIS believed the loan against his 401k was taken out approximately five (5) months ago
They were three (3) months behind on their mortgage payments.
They had received a letter from Chase Bank pertaining to their delinquent home loan.
He and SHANANN were stressed out about their financial situation.
He currently owes his mortgage payment for August (2018), which is due tomorrow (August 16, 2018).
He currently has $2,000.00 in his Chase checking account and approximately $1,500.00 in their USAA checking account.
Almost all of their credit cards are maxed out.
SHANANN had only been paying the minimum payment on their credit cards.