GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #59

[Mitch11]

He sounds like a teenager who got his girlfriend pregnant.

I think that's very telling actually. And IMO you are right. He appears to have missed out on normal social and emotional development, which probably helps to somewhat explain some of his behavior.

Clearly he saw his unborn baby like a concert ticket he had purchased in advance, but decided he no longer wanted to go. Options, sell (divorce) or throw out. Sickeningly we know what option he chose.

 

[MassGuy]

Well we know they texted about that... I wonder if he was trying to convince her to come over. Or convince her not to come over (if he knew he was under surveillance).

Yeah. The last thing he would have wanted is for her to make an appearance. That would have been disastrous, as the exposure of the affair would have been very incriminating.

He actually denied the affair during his lengthy police interrogations, because an affair equals a motive for murder.

He’s a dumbass, but not insane.

 

[MassGuy]

I wonder who could have told the fb group about the letter?

If I were a betting man, which I absolutely am, I’d bet big on his sister.

Sneaky, that one.

 

[Gardener1850]

Did we ever get answers on if NK can still be charged with anything ?

Maybe missing info because they aren't done with her yet?

I think the general consensus was that they thought of her as one of their star witnesses and now they probably will not bother with charges against her for lying. Not sure what happens if the investigation revealed she was involved in something more serious.

 

[Allabouttrial]

I wonder who could have told the fb group about the letter?

In the grand scheme of things though is it really relevant now? At least now we have real facts to go on from the discovery.

 

[Jennifer17]

In the grand scheme of things though is it really relevant now? At least now we have real facts to go on from the discovery.

To me it is, after all the nonsense and non facts that were spouted about Shanann.
We had real facts before the discovery. Before he pleaded guilty.

 

[Mitch11]

This is just scary! And it also sounds like Scott Peterson. So are sociopaths lower functioning individuals and psychopaths higher functioning than the rest of us? I have known narcissists but how does one spot a sociopath? Or is that possible?

From my knowledge (correct me if wrong!) psychopaths are born with psychopathic traits. They have histories of engaging in antisocial behavior from a young age. Research suggests there is still an element of nature vs nurture, eg you are born with traits which are triggered by the environment (eg abuse as a child is an example). However psychopaths often show these tendencies regardless (eg harming animals is a common example) and their behaviors can vary on a scale. They are frequently diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder first.

Sociopaths are bred within their family environment. They tend to lead non-criminal lives in their earlier years, if not for the majority of their lives. They are often your corporate fraudsters or CEOs who walk all over people as they have no regard for them.

 

[pocketaccent]

He sounds like his maturity level is that of a 14 year old boy.

14 sounds just about right.
As for his murder plan though, 14 is too generous. Maybe 10 year old boy? Except the boy had muscles.

 

[Allabouttrial]

To me it is, after all the nonsense and non facts that were spouted about Shanann.
We had real facts before the discovery. Before he pleaded guilty.

Not sure I follow?

 

[MassGuy]

In the grand scheme of things though is it really relevant now? At least now we have real facts to go on from the discovery.

We’re trying to gather a complete picture of everything that occurred here.

The murders are obviously the most important part, but there was a calculated and coordinated effort to mislead the public here.

Some of it was done in the light of day (tv interviews), and some of it was done through the anonymity of social media and the internet in general.

To understand CW, you must look at his family. Likewise, to understand what Shanann went through, you have to focus on them as well.

They are an important part of this, and their actions can certainly offer some clarity as to the entire picture.

 

[Allabouttrial]

We’re trying to gather a complete picture of everything that occurred here.

The murders are obviously the most important part, but there was a calculated and coordinated effort to mislead the public here.

Some of it was done in the light of day (tv interviews), and some of it was done through the anonymity of social media and the internet in general.

To understand CW, you must look at his family. Likewise, to understand what Shanann went through, you have to focus on them as well.

They are an important part of this, and their actions can certainly offer some clarity as to the entire picture.

That makes sense. Thank you!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Cindy didn't allude to it, the newscaster did.

But where did the newscaster get this from? hmmm, not saying it was Cindy, someone was telling porkies and the newscaster ran with it.

 

[PommyMommy]

It is interesting looking back, and remembering when a few mentioned there was likely 'a letter' of some kind ---possibly a confession or a suicide note. And when questioned on it, why they thought there was, it was ' we can wait and see.'

Makes me wonder if there was someone whispering in their ears, promising them there was a note to be revealed soon? [ I posted this^^^ about 30 seconds before it closed]


I was so curious, at the time, why there was so much certainty that there was a letter out there, that hadn't yet been revealed. I think some of our embers were being lied to and messed with, offline. JMO

I think this may have been about the time I had to apply the brain bleach. MOO

 

[Gardener1850]

It is interesting looking back, and remembering when a few mentioned there was likely 'a letter' of some kind ---possibly a confession or a suicide note. And when questioned on it, why they thought there was, it was ' we can wait and see.'

Makes me wonder if there was someone whispering in their ears, promising them there was a note to be revealed soon? [ I posted this^^^ about 30 seconds before it closed]


I was so curious, at the time, why there was so much certainty that there was a letter out there, that hadn't yet been revealed. I think some of our embers were being lied to and messed with, offline. JMO

If CW really wrote a letter saying something like "if anything happens to me blame SW":
1. He is stupid-- it shows his premeditation.
2. It would make me wonder if he planned to commit suicide after murdering his family and failed to do so OR if he had a plan to stage a scene where he injured himself and then called 911 and blamed SW for his injuries.
3. He is stupid-- even if he had done a #2 scenario it would have been figured out and the letter would show his premeditation.

*Yes, I know 1 and 3 say essentially the same thing.

 

[Allabouttrial]

But where did the newscaster get this from? hmmm, not saying it was Cindy, someone was telling porkies and the newscaster ran with it.

Yeah don't get me wrong Cindy said there was a letter that the defense had been given then the newscaster went from there.

 

[Jennifer17]

Not sure I follow?

We had the fact that he forced his little girl's bodies into vats of crude oil. We had the facts that he lied his head off, while looking so pleased with himself in his interviews. We had the fact that he buried his wife and unborn child in a shallow grave.
We had the fact that the DA had enough evidence against him that he was charged with murder of all of them.
They were facts that we had. On the other side, we had the word of a liar and lots of lies and gossip.

 

[fabvab]

I believe reporter referenced a FB group, and Cindy essentially confirmed the rumor, and added to it with the attorney destroyed it bit. MOO

There are things about this Cindy that remind me of Casey Anthony's mom, Cindy! And things about Chris remind me of Casey!

 

[MassGuy]

We had the fact that he forced his little girl's bodies into vats of crude oil. We had the facts that he lied his head off, while looking so pleased with himself in his interviews. We had the fact that he buried his wife and unborn child in a shallow grave.
We had the fact that the DA had enough evidence against him that he was charged with murder of all of them.
They were facts that we had. On the other side, we had the word of a liar and lots of lies and gossip.

Yes. Coordinated lies and gossip.

Funny enough, we came to find out in the discovery document, that the same lies and gossip were uttered to investigators by the Watts family.

We were just privy to it early.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Absolutely-“I don’t think I want the baby anymore”, what is Shan'ann supposed to do with that revelation?

this part is what broke my heart when Shanann says she feels scared. She might've thought he'd ask her to abort, that's bad enough but it was actually worse!

 

[katydid23]

If CW really wrote a letter saying something like "if anything happens to me blame SW":
1. He is stupid-- it shows his premeditation.
2. It would make me wonder if he planned to commit suicide after murdering his family and failed to do so OR if he had a plan to stage a scene where he injured himself and then called 911 and blamed SW for his injuries.
3. He is stupid-- even if he had done a #2 scenario it would have been figured out and the letter would show his premeditation.

*Yes, I know 1 and 3 say essentially the same thing.

It really was stupid. But that's kind of his signature style---bone headed moves.

IF she really was a threat and danger to him, why leave a sealed letter, only to be opened AFTER something bad happened? Wasn't he concerned about his and his children's safety?