GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #59

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  • #521
CW told LE that she made about the same amount of money that he did, so it was not an unproductive endeavor. I apologize that I don't have a page reference, but I believe it's in the polygraph interview? MOO
Page 571 this is referenced. This particular reference came from the CBI interview with NK. She told them that this is what CW told her.

ETA: CW also mentioned this in his polygraph interview (page 587).
 
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  • #522
One video that sticks in my mind is of Shanann speaking to CW being the best thing that ever happened to her. He messaged her when she was in a very dark place with illness. IMO that was the lure. Her illness. He knew her weakness and zeroed in on it. Then when he was done with them all they were to be extinguished. No problem. For him.
 
  • #523
My sense is that Shanann spent several weeks in NC, trying to get some perspective on a marriage that had been going south. In this couple, I see 2 people who operated on 2 different tracks much of the time. She seemed to be the Alpha in the relationship, setting goals, keeping it all together and presenting an image she thought was important or necessary to portray. She also seemed OCD to me, which is a standard very few can live up to. It creates huge pressure. Lots of concern about image and "keeping up with the Jones." It also seems she was all consumed with this Thrive thing, regardless of the fact that it really did not bring in much $$. But she spent huge amounts of time and energy on this nonproductive endevour. This was a very young couple who wanted instant gratification. This IS MY OPINION, and I'm not victim shaming here, but they each lived in their own realities, which did not always converge. The whole 2.4 children and a house in the Burbs, fancy looking car. I'm going to get flack here, but in order for her to do this, she needed to have a real job with a real income. And I do think CW was doing his damndest to try and make this work. I also think this played a huge part (mounting debt) in creating stress and expectations which in the end, CW just could not meet, and he lost it. I in no way, am justifying his behavior, but as I've said before, I do understand it to a point. Such a very sad and tragic situation.
CW told the interrogator that SW made about as much as he did, hardly a "non-productive endeavor" unless of course you think his job was also non-productive. She also said they were all over each other physically, romantically, before she went to see her parents. IE Before CW had 5 weeks to concentrate on his adultery, even bringing his mistress to SW's home a few times (that we know of). So CW was trying his "damndest" to try and make things work, like having a mistress who helped siphon off his income, but his wife, with 2 kids, another on the way, and several serious illnesses, with a home business that earned about as much as her husband...wasn't? Here we are again, back to MRSville.
 
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  • #524
I have read and re-read the interrogation notes with SA Coder a dozen times or more, and each time, I'm increasingly grateful that there was no trial in this case... I can't help but think that, if I were a juror on this case, and only had access to evidence deemed admissible by a court (the extent of which we'll never know, of course), I honestly may have had a hard time convicting this 🤬🤬🤬 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. SO MUCH damning information never makes it in front of a jury, often simply because it's deemed too 'prejudicial'. How much of the information that we've all learned here, and been sickened by, would really have been allowed to be presented to a jury? And what sort of antics could the defence team (be it the PD, or some high-profile, flashy defence attorney) have come up with to prevent the truth from being heard? Had I not had the benefit of following the case so closely here, would I have been 100% convinced that CW was the one who smothered those poor little babies, after hearing his concocted story? With each bit of information I find myself thinking,'If I didn't know that, would I be able to convict?' It makes it really hard to fall asleep at night, to be honest. Tormented by all that we know in this case, and knowing that there are, indeed, others who've gotten away with sick, disgusting crimes because the jury just didn't get to hear all that was known. Totally senseless and completely heartbreaking. I just cannot fathom the pain and devastation that Shanann's family is experiencing, considering how deeply saddened and angry so many of us absolute strangers are feeling. My thoughts and prayers continue to go out to all of Shanann's family, friends, and all of the investigators and other heroes who helped to bring justice in this case.

IMO, most, if not all, of the discovery we've seen would have been admissible at trial, had there been one. The standard for inadmissibility isn't just prejudicial, it's "more prejudicial than probative" and all of this stuff is VERY probative.

Having said that, I am also very glad there wasn't a trial, for the sake of the Rzucek family. They deserve to begin their healing.
 
  • #525
I think he company kept pressure on presenting images and info to use for the sale’s people.

She had tried several other MLM businesses. I wonder what the allure is of MLM? There are so many out there.

What does it matter why she chose to work with Thrive? She's gone. Who cares what her job was? I would never choose to work with an MLM but I've never understood why that matters in regards to these murders.

Some other things that jumped out at me from the docu-dump that I haven't really seen discussed. Though I may have missed it. Discovery page 2102 Shannan texted "would you stay with me if I didn't have the kids." If it /had/ gone to trial this seems like it would have looked bad for the possibility of her killing them? (I know it could also be her picking up on his coldness to the kids and /his/ wanting them gone) .

Also I'm not sure where it was at but I thought there was talk of bad blood in the past with her and others about money and I'm just not seeing how she could possibly be making that much with the MLM thing. Though I suppose some people somehow make money on it. I've heard of people going into debt buying product to reach a level of sales. I just don't feel like we have the whole picture.

Here's the thing from discovery page 596 (and I am NOT saying she deserved to die I just find a lot of things perplexing in this case)
"SHANANN got their policies through his cousin’s wife (NICOLE KENNEDY), so he does not know how much they were.
 SHANANN and NICOLE had a falling out over a “money thing.”
 He believed NICOLE and SHANANN’s old boss believed SHANANN had embezzled money from the business."

Shannon was simply asking Chris if the only reason he's been married to her this long was because they have children. Pretty simple question to ask of your spouse who you think doesn't love you and makes you wonder if they ever did. With all due respect, who cares where Shanann worked or how much money she made. And why should we believe ANY statements Chris made, especially regarding Shanann. We don't have the whole picture about what?
 
  • #526
I'm confused. Who did the say, had the creepy laugh? At first I thought it was NK. after some posts (above), I'm not sure. Having a very hard time with the Discovery docs and it's a slow go. I'm a fast reader, it's the sadness and pain that slows me down and even causes me to take a break from reading. Thanks for any help.
NK was the one described with the “creepy laugh.”
 
  • #527
I do remember seeing somewhere in that 2000 page document that someone from the oil company found emails between the two: NK and CW. Not sure if it was before she was interviewed or after.
It was prior to her interview.

Pg 513 (Discovery pg 580) –Approximately 3 hours before the polygraph was scheduled to begin (8:00 A.M.), I received a phone call from Anadarko Regional Security Manager, TONY HUSKEY. HUSKEY advised he had reviewed CHRIS’ computer network traffic and it was possible CHRIS had started a relationship with an Anadarko contracted employee. HUSKEY advised he located emails between CHRIS and the contracted employee, who he identified as NICHOL “NIKKI” KESSINGER (Age 30; ). HUSKEY said it appeared a relationship between CHRIS and KESSINGER started around June of 2018.
 
  • #528
My sense is that Shanann spent several weeks in NC, trying to get some perspective on a marriage that had been going south. In this couple, I see 2 people who operated on 2 different tracks much of the time. She seemed to be the Alpha in the relationship, setting goals, keeping it all together and presenting an image she thought was important or necessary to portray. She also seemed OCD to me, which is a standard very few can live up to. It creates huge pressure. Lots of concern about image and "keeping up with the Jones." It also seems she was all consumed with this Thrive thing, regardless of the fact that it really did not bring in much $$. But she spent huge amounts of time and energy on this nonproductive endevour. This was a very young couple who wanted instant gratification. This IS MY OPINION, and I'm not victim shaming here, but they each lived in their own realities, which did not always converge. The whole 2.4 children and a house in the Burbs, fancy looking car. I'm going to get flack here, but in order for her to do this, she needed to have a real job with a real income. And I do think CW was doing his damndest to try and make this work. I also think this played a huge part (mounting debt) in creating stress and expectations which in the end, CW just could not meet, and he lost it. I in no way, am justifying his behavior, but as I've said before, I do understand it to a point. Such a very sad and tragic situation.
You keep mentioning you see two people, but then it's all she, she, she, her, her ,her. Why? Her job was NOT non-productive and it's believed SHE earned more than CW. She HAD a real job! and a real income AND a FUTURE, stolen by CW! Was she OCD, and if so, to what degree? What has a professional stated? SW was a victim and was victimized and then murdered along with her children and unborn baby! All the evidence and CW's guilty pleas tell the story clearly. Most couples have problems, most couples make poor decisions, some make it through, others don't! Only monsters do what CW did!
 
  • #529
CW told LE that she made about the same amount of money that he did, so it was not an unproductive endeavor. I apologize that I don't have a page reference, but I believe it's in the polygraph interview? MOO

ETA: Here is one reference from Pg 504 (Discovery pg 571) - "CHRIS said she made close to the same amount of money as he did."

Page 571 this is referenced. This particular reference came from the CBI interview with NK. She told them that this is what CW told her.

ETA: CW also mentioned this in his polygraph interview (page 587).

PDF page 520, Discovery page 587

SHANANN made between $65,000 - $70,000 a year with Thrive.
SHANANN had approximately 200 people who are signed up under her.
 
  • #530
Just got back, again. Didn't see any posts about CW being transferred.


He looks different. Beard is gone, mustache only. Looks heavier!

Already turning into a little fatty cakes.
 
  • #531
  • #532
You keep mentioning you see two people, but then it's all she, she, she, her, her ,her. Why? Her job was NOT non-productive and it's believed SHE earned more than CW. She HAD a real job! and a real income AND a FUTURE, stolen by CW! Was she OCD, and if so, to what degree? What has a professional stated? SW was a victim and was victimized and then murdered along with her children and unborn baby! All the evidence and CW's guilty pleas tell the story clearly. Most couples have problems, most couples make poor decisions, some make it through, others don't! Only monsters do what CW did!

Whenever this conversation comes up, it always turns into "let's look at all the things SW was doing to stress CW out".

Honestly, SW could have stood on her rooftop and flung Younginque, AMWAY, Mary Kay, and Herbal Life products into the wind while she talked to her people in one phone and her doctors on the other and it still wouldn't explain why CW murdered her, much less his babies, and dumped them like garbage.
 
  • #533
I mentioned this is a previous post, but Shanann’s comment “Would you stay with me if we didn’t have the kids?” Isn’t the least bit incriminating (page 2102).

She wanted to know if CW still loved her, or was just hanging around because of the children.

I’m sure this question has been posed countless times, by women who want to know if their partner is still in love with them.

This question was in no way nefarious. It was a natural question to ask.

That's true and it seems to me like she was probably just trying to figure out his mindset and wtf was going on with where they were as a couple. But I think if he had been working with a defense team that was aggressive in his defense and really going with his story more, that's the sort of thing that would have been blown up.

I just find him really perplexing. Like if he's just a completely self-serving narcissist, he's not doing a great job of it. It's all so jarring to me. I guess it's never going to all make sense.
 
  • #534
PDF page 520, Discovery page 587

SHANANN made between $65,000 - $70,000 a year with Thrive.
SHANANN had approximately 200 people who are signed up under her.
Thank you. PLUS IIRC Shanann received bonuses and perks beyond her income.
 
  • #535
I do remember seeing somewhere in that 2000 page document that someone from the oil company found emails between the two: NK and CW. Not sure if it was before she was interviewed or after.

The company contacted the police department at 8 a.m. His polygraph was 11 a.m. This was on Wednesday. She had not been interviewed at that point at 8 a.m. on Wednesday.
 
  • #536
BBM

This reads to me as if they already had Kessinger's phone records before they ever had contact with her.

Pg 640 (Discovery pg 723)

ACTION TAKEN: On 8/15/2018 I, Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI) Investigative Analyst JILLIAN GANLEY, created a Law Enforcement Support Packet for NICHOL KESSINGER. KESSINGER is the girlfriend of CHRIS WATTS. The support packet was created so CBI Agents, Frederick PD Detectives, and FBI Agents could locate and attempt to interview her.

I researched criminal and public data sources to determine current address of subject, current contact information, employment history and criminal history. I completed searches in CCIC/NCIC, TLO, CLEAR,LUMEN, ZTEXT, CO Courts, Facebook and Instagram. The information found was forwarded to AIC KIRBY LEWIS, FBI ANALYST LIZ DAWSON, and CBI AGENT KEVIN KOBACK and was further disseminated from there.

ATTACHMENTS:
Law Enforcement Support Packet, LPR Search for KESSINGER’S vehicle, KESSINGER’S phone records received from Verizon Wireless on an exigency request.

I think you are right. "Locate and attempt to interview her" makes it sound like they had not yet had any contact with her. You said she called in sick on Tuesday? Maybe she thought they would not find out about her if she just stayed out of the office while police were there interviewing coworkers? CW called her 5 times in the wee hours of the morning on the 14th. Maybe he was assuring her he had hidden all her photos and deleted all their messages and if she just stayed home sick for a few days this would all blow over?
If he mentioned talking to the police at all he probably told her what she wanted to hear-- that their secret was safe. I'm still gobsmacked she googled to find out if the police could recover deleted texts... I kind of wonder if CW asked her to do that search for him or if he had been reassuring her the police couldn't find their deleted texts and she didn't believe him so she googled it. Because it sounds like an idea CW might have come up with-- we know from SW's texts to her friend that CW was deleting messages from his dad right away. He probably thought if he deleted right away the messages would be harder to recover (and some of his were not recovered according to the documents).
My head is spinning with all this info. I think "deleting texts" needs to be on the list of things that point to CW's premeditation for sure.
Whoever said CW is an "evil robot" hit the nail on the head (I think it was MassGuy). :eek:

MOO.
 
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  • #537
Thank you. PLUS IIRC Shanann received bonuses and perks beyond her income.
Yes, like those lifestyle vacations that THEY went on. ;) MOO
 
  • #538
Shanann’s mother is an incredible inspiration, this brings tears to my eyes and humbles me - what a lesson in that we choose how to react, we choose what we put into the world. Kindness is a choice.
She commented on the video of MeMe -Cindy - arriving at the airport and Cindy is very happy, hugging and kissing the girls. Sandi’s comment was simply “How Beautiful” - that comment was made 6 days ago.
Completely agree with you about Shanann's mother.
Sandi is a total class act, just like her daughter was who took after her.

Wish I could say the same about the Watts family.
I was done posting on this case until I got a response the other day to a month old comment of mine on another site.
I think it was from Chris Watts' sister, and if so, she is still at it bashing Shanann.
Unbelievable.
I now believe the Watts' hate for Shanann is much stronger than their love ever was for Bella and CeCe.
JMO
 
  • #539
It was prior to her interview.

Pg 513 (Discovery pg 580) –Approximately 3 hours before the polygraph was scheduled to begin (8:00 A.M.), I received a phone call from Anadarko Regional Security Manager, TONY HUSKEY. HUSKEY advised he had reviewed CHRIS’ computer network traffic and it was possible CHRIS had started a relationship with an Anadarko contracted employee. HUSKEY advised he located emails between CHRIS and the contracted employee, who he identified as NICHOL “NIKKI” KESSINGER (Age 30; ). HUSKEY said it appeared a relationship between CHRIS and KESSINGER started around June of 2018.

I just started reading the entire document dump. It was so strange to read that her best friend Nicole was also nicknamed Nikki by most people who gave interviews. ( I Now understand that the affair partner had the same nickname)

I wonder if some of them did that purposely? Because both girls had the same nickname? Confusing.
 
  • #540
Whenever this conversation comes up, it always turns into "let's look at all the things SW was doing to stress CW out".

Honestly, SW could have stood on her rooftop and flung Younginque, AMWAY, Mary Kay, and Herbal Life products into the wind while she talked to her people in one phone and her doctors on the other and it still wouldn't explain why CW murdered her, much less his babies, and dumped them like garbage.
Bravo! Thank you, so true! CW IS a liar, manipulator, adulterer, murderer of four human beings including an unborn and two small children and he's admitted it ALL! Why would a conversation turn to anything she may have done?
 
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