GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #59

[Jessthinkin]

I said earlier in the thread, that I couldn't believe the pics I've seen of NK are the same person. Nothing against her looks at all, it's just that she looks so different in different photos.

Question....Are there actual texts of NK telling CW to save his marriage or is that just something she told LE that she told CW?

It’s something she told LE that she said... hmmm..

 

[MassGuy]

Chris Watts’ wife called his parents 'evil and stupid' one week before her murder | Daily Mail Online

I am posting this article which i found on Daily Mail because i find it repulsive as it makes Shannan sound like a nasty woman and will give those who are looking for reasons her husband murdered his family something to talk about. I just wonder why any paper would publish a piece of trash like this after the murderer has been convicted and sentenced to life in prison.

The content of that article however, is right on point. It makes his family look bad, not her.

Bad headline, although this one at the top of the article is better.

REVEALED: Chris Watts’ murdered wife called his parents 'evil and stupid' after they gave allergic daughter NUTS and skipped her birthday

 

[Allabouttrial]

Chris Watts’ wife called his parents 'evil and stupid' one week before her murder | Daily Mail Online

I am posting this article which i found on Daily Mail because i find it repulsive as it makes Shannan sound like a nasty woman and will give those who are looking for reasons her husband murdered his family something to talk about. I just wonder why any paper would publish a piece of trash like this after the murderer has been convicted and sentenced to life in prison.

How does that help though, other than to incite?

 

[DexterMorgan]

I think this is coincidence...but a bizarre coincidence. Christopher's name is Christopher Lee, so I would think Niko got the Lee name in honor of Christopher who killed his namesake. It is bizarre that both Nichol and Chris both have the middle name of Lee.

Sw would have changed the name once she found out about Nk and her actual name. Don't you think?

 

[scdiv]

This weirded me out too. And the description of her voicemail as "creepy giggling" seems to me so subjective. I mean it's completely possible to me with the information that she /is/ creepy and a part of some horrible plot, but it's also possible from what little I've gleamed that the only thing she is guilty of is being with a married man who she had no idea had that kind of murderous capacity in him (which it seems like most people would never have suspected of him). And that her giggling was the kind of baby-flirty voice some women take on with love interests? I don't understand this document dump really.

I just have this feeling that if we hear the audio, it will be like, "Oh okay. Yep, that's definitely a creepy giggle."

HOW did CW do his "damndest" to make it work?

By cheating on SW with his co-worker?

By ignoring her pleas to communicate?

By refusing to go to couples' therapy? (Until the very end, when he knew it was too late and he wouldn't have to.)

By lying to SW about where he was spending his money?

And, again, if finances were so tight and stressful to him then why was he taking his mistress to expensive meals and on weekend getaways? Spending his money on male companionship? (If the male AP is to be believed.)

And do we have actual proof that SW wasn't bringing in any income? According to the document dump, she was bringing in as much money as CW was with her job.

Look, MLMs aren't my thing. I don't generally buy products from people who sell direct sale items and I don't want to become involved in that kind of thing myself. And it is true that MOST people do not make money at them. But some people DO make actual money at them. Is there ANY proof that SW did not? Can someone direct me to bank statements or LE statements or anything official that shows that SW was not bringing in income?

I welcome a discussion about how this seemingly fell apart, but the problem is that almost every time someone gives it a shot, it's always a list of reasons why CW was "stressed", with the majority of those reasons circling around SW. That makes the convo difficult.

I'm not a big fan of MLM's, although that never factored into how I perceived Shanann or ever doubted that CW killed his family. But I have to say, I am impressed that SW had 200 people in her downline! That's pretty amazing. I don't think I even know like 2 people who I could sell to like that. 200 people is pretty impressive. And also shows more her motivation for a heavy social media presence. This wasn't a side hustle. She was making legit income with this. It might not be my thing, but she was bringing in good money for her family. Also, there was absolutely nothing to show that CW was irritated by this. He even told the investigators interrogating him that he took Thrive and that it was a great product! Ha that kind of made me laugh if this case wasn't so sad. Also most of their friends were through Thrive or taking Thrive products. Even a guy CW worked with mentioned his wife was also into it. There was so much speculation early on that her MLM selling obsession created tension in their marriage, but there was nothing that indicated that in the discovery documents. CW seemed to support what she was doing in her direct sales job. It seemed liked every time the MLM thing came up, it was a "looking for a reason" why, but the MLM did not appear to cause tension. (NOT that it would be a valid reason anyway!) But wow, 200 people under her really stood out to me as impressive.

It's not great to be apart, but he could have come down on a weekend or two. Grandkids need to get to know their grandparents, and kids need to see their parents. According to the video Shanann did about facial products, they took a trip every summer to NC. It is not optimal being apart for 5 weeks, but when you live halfway across the country from your family, you have to make sacrifices somewhere. What I would like to know is for how long Chris stayed in NC in all of the previous years.

I don't think they really had extra money for CW to take extra flights out a weekend or two. Not that CW even wanted to do that. But Shanann was upset he drove to the airport and was paying for parking in the airport lot every day. That it was money they now didn't have for the beach. I don't think two extra round trip flights was in the cards. Or that he was interested in that. But I think this topic has jumped the shark in general. She had a flexible job and he didn't. Even the VI Trinket who posted here early on posted that she didn't think the trip to NC was related to marriage issues.

I gave NK the benefit of the doubt when she first came out with her story, but I feel absolutely no sorrow for her at this point. She twisted details and made herself seem naive, when in reality she knew exactly what she was doing all along. Knowingly sleeping with a married man who has his own family speaks volumes about one’s character IMO. The Amber Frey search and “can cops trace text messages” only adds to the level of shadiness. She has lost trust and credibility in my eyes and many others.

I think one of NK's big mistakes aside from everything in this case was trying to jump in front of this story and portray herself as the innocent victim and hero. And it worked. We all thought she was super smart to do that and came off in a good light. Then the discovery document showed contradictions and not so altruistic or fully honorable behavior, and we kind of feel duped and betrayed. I think that's where a lot of this anger is coming from. Can totally see why Rourke and his office seemed a little meh on her.

I think she would have been better off if she hadn't tried to get ahead of this story and portray herself as someone she's not. We would have read the discovery document. Rolled our eyes a few times. Had no previous statements of hers to compare it to and find the lies. And moved on. Dumb, immature mistress who law enforcement does not believe was involved. Make a statement or two after the fact saying omg yeah I was really dumb, and I had an affair, but dude I did NOT know he was going to kill his whole family. That's like, really messed up." And still looked a lot better than she does now.

Because people hate liars, not authentic, disingenuous, and people they feel have agendas or other motives. She's not trustworthy and she's lost all good will. And that is hard to recover from. She is not a killer, but her mortal error was in trying to play the Amber Frey hero. She probably didn't know how much would be released after the fact or she likely would have tried to get ahead of that in a better way.

I do find it pretty ironic that as CW is annihilating his family to be with her, she's having sleepovers with a supposedly platonic friend named Jim.

I also can't blame her for thinking CW was going to leave his wife. Unlike most married men who will never leave their marriage and kids and families for the mistress, just continue to have sex, CW actually was planning this. That's actually pretty unusual. And he wasn't still having sex with his wife. Or texting her that he loved her and missed her. Or being affectionate. It's tragic what he did. And if he was pulling back knowing he was going to murder his family. But from NK's perspective, it's not like he was stringing her along or telling her lies. He really was shutting out his wife and making plans to move forward with her. And with SW gone for 6 weeks, there was no wife and family in the picture. It probably felt real that they could be together. I'm sure that's the vibe she picked up on and thought this was legit. No wonder she was googling wedding dresses.

 

[kittycat3]

You must not have been reading here long. We have all been on CW's case for weeks. No one blames anyone but him, including NK. Unless I've missed it, I haven't seen anyone blame her for the murders or say she's involved. The only blame on her is having an affair with a married man, which IMO is a pretty crappy thing to do and yes I will judge her for that. She's a part of this case so of course, she is going to be discussed.

Really? So did you miss a couple threads back when @Tricia posted a reminder to us with some strongly worded phrasing that stated NK may not be an angel but she didn’t commit murder like CW did?
I had to skip a whole thread because it was endless bashing of NK and a complete departure from sleuthing the real crime we are all here to discuss.

I will see if I can link it....

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree. He would have gone with absolutely anything she suggested, as he couldn’t care less about that sort of thing.

It’s probably a good thing, as he probably would have gone with the character of his favorite tv show. Barney.[/QUOTE Ha ha. His first lesson about relationships! "I loved her. She loved me. We were a happy family."

 

[MassGuy]

JMO, the whole narrative that was developed in blaming SW for the murders of Bella and Celeste was extremely misogynistic.

I'm not seeing misogyny when one woman has an affair with another woman's husband. I think that is entirely something else, JMO.

Agreed. That was vile, and most of us made no bones about it.

As for people being angry about the affair, and NK’s involvement in it, I think it’s more about Shanann than anything.

We read those texts, she was suffering because of it.

 

[tmar]

He would have fallen hard for her whether Shanann was around or not. It wouldn't have changed his decision about the murder. There just would have been more lies and sneaking around if she hadn't gone. It wasn't the the distance, it was because he had never loved another woman like that before. Imo

I keep singing that song, "Never loved like that before": great tune.
Pity idiot used these words.
Probably CW heard the song, and decided to COPY, as he has tried to copy human behaviour in his life, however UNSUCCESSFULLY.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

Really? So did you miss a couple threads back when @Tricia posted a reminder to us with some strongly worded phrasing that stated NK may not be an angel but she didn’t commit murder like CW did?
I had to skip a whole thread because it was endless bashing of NK and a complete departure from sleuthing the real crime we are all here to discuss.

I will see if I can link it....

Sure I guess I missed it then. I don't remember anyone claiming NK helped him plan or take part in the murders. I do remember a lot of judging NK for being his mistress as well as what many considered a liar. I also remember Tricia posting that NK turned out not to be a victim and we were welcome to discuss her as long as there was no name calling.

 

[kittycat3]

You must not have been reading here long. We have all been on CW's case for weeks. No one blames anyone but him, including NK.

Wrong.

Here’s the post from @Tricia , it’s at the beginning of Thread 57

Hey Everyone,

With the release of the documents from the Watts investigation, it appears there are many questionable events, issues, Google searches and more concerning NK.

The vitriol being exhibited has taken me by surprise. She was not charged with killing Shanann and her two adorable daughters. No matter what NK did or didn't do it was Chris Watts who committed this crime.

What NK knew along with her actions (among other things) are what everyone is questioning now. I understand with the new information we must allow discussing the new information in the documents.

All I ask is please, dial it back. Save that type of anger for Chris Watts. Remember two people had this affair. Only one annihilated his family.

If you see a post that is over the top in discussing NK please report.

One thing we will not allow is derogatory name calling of NK. You know the words I am talking about.

We have a lot of info to process. I appreciate people who know about the courts and such weighing in to help those of us who need some guidance.

Thank you

 

[kiwilaura]

I really don't know but I would think she is aware that LE may be able to retrieve all the messages. I can definitely see someone who is insecure telling him that just to see what he says or does. She probably didn't trust him. I don't think it means she is involved. At this point I doubt they are going to find anything implicating her in the murder. If they do, there will be a whole lot more to talk about! My guess is that they would have had some evidence by now. Imo

Oh I agree. I don't think she's involved in that in any way at all.

 

[Jennifer17]

How does that help though, other than to incite?

Incite what? How did it help a dead SW to say all of the awful things that his family and plenty of others joined, about Shanann?
Sometimes actions and the things that you say in public come back to bite you.

 

[ZsaZsa]

But knowing what transpired now between them. Do you really think that would have helped to locate them?

At that stage LE did not know all the details of their involvement. What they found out each time they talked to her was that they were both hiding things, when 3 people were 'missing' and then found dead. Not a sterling way to conduct yourself when LE are expecting your help.

 

[MsBetsy]

It feels like a HUGE coincidence and check this out. It's right after the night when they had the best talk yet.

View attachment 157416

I think that was just him manipulating the situation to ensure that everything went according to plan. He probably didn't want her to get so upset that she would just take the kids and not come back. Or he was just pacifying her since it wouldn't be much longer until he killed them. There had to be some reason that suited his needs. It just shows how evil he is. Imo

 

[ZsaZsa]

Chris Watts’ wife called his parents 'evil and stupid' one week before her murder | Daily Mail Online

I am posting this article which i found on Daily Mail because i find it repulsive as it makes Shannan sound like a nasty woman and will give those who are looking for reasons her husband murdered his family something to talk about. I just wonder why any paper would publish a piece of trash like this after the murderer has been convicted and sentenced to life in prison.

I didn't read it that way at all, and if you look at the comments, the great majority sympathized and feel awful that Shanann had to put up with the toxic Watts.

 

[kiwilaura]

You must not have been reading here long. We have all been on CW's case for weeks. No one blames anyone but him, including NK. Unless I've missed it, I haven't seen anyone blame her for the murders or say she's involved. The only blame on her is having an affair with a married man, which IMO is a pretty crappy thing to do and yes I will judge her for that. She's a part of this case so of course, she is going to be discussed.

We have also wondered if she may have expressed her doubts to him about his children. And that is reasonable to explore, as it could point to a motive (his, not hers, just to be clear).

 

[molly1255]

Really? So did you miss a couple threads back when @Tricia posted a reminder to us with some strongly worded phrasing that stated NK may not be an angel but she didn’t commit murder like CW did?
I had to skip a whole thread because it was endless bashing of NK and a complete departure from sleuthing the real crime we are all here to discuss.

I will see if I can link it....

I don't recall anyone saying they thought NK was a murderer. The blame for that lies solely with CW. The affair is one of the focal points in the grand scheme of things in this case and it is detailed in the discovery docs.

Her interview with the Denver paper contradicts what is in the discovery docs.

 

[ZsaZsa]

We have also wondered if she may have expressed her doubts to him about his children. And that is reasonable to explore, as it could point to a motive (his, not hers, just to be clear).

Yes, that's all it took for Susan Smith to drown her boys in a lake- a new boyfriend who told her he wasn't into kids.

 

[MassGuy]

We have also wondered if she may have expressed her doubts to him about his children. And that is reasonable to explore, as it could point to a motive (his, not hers, just to be clear).

Exactly. She is part of the conversation because she is part of the motive.

As the DA said during sentencing:

"His motive was simple, your honor," the prosecutor told the court. "He had a desire for a fresh start and to begin a relationship with a new love that overpowered all decency and feelings for his wife and daughters and unborn son."