GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #65

[Curious.1]

One thing I’m taking away from this is to live my life like it can be in display to the entire world at any given notice.

I wonder how many people have used the factory reset on their phones after this. (Not me, because I don't live an exciting life). And I wonder how many suspicious wives have looked for a calculator app on their husbands' phones. We've all learned from this case! Vocal fry, house construction methods and prices in CO, and what constitutes a family car. I'm being educated daily!

 

[PommyMommy]

Shanann is not to blame for her own murder nor that of her children. I’m happy to acknowledge that. We all bring our own personal experiences to how we view these stories. I have lived long enough to see that solving the REAL mystery is not just reading the closing chapter...it’s trying to understand all the chapters before...starting with Happy Families, ending in murder. How does that happen?

It’s easy enough to just vent about the murderer and eulogize the victim and say, case closed. That’s an emotional decision and on the Internet, we form teams that support how we want to handle our feelings about a case.

But some of us want to discuss the victim and the murderer as the real people they were. This is not a memorial thread at a funeral home...it a sleuthing forum.

CW has an easy out. His family supported him, his new girlfriend already knew about the wife and family...and according to this thread, maybe the pregnancy. She was still looking at wedding gowns. NK made a good salary and had a stable income. Together with his income, he’d probably be better off financially even with the divorce.

SW, on the other hand, would have had the more difficult transition. She had two children and no new partner. With their debt, doubtful she’d have gotten any big settlement. But, worse yet, the “marketing image” of the rich, perfect life was about to collapse. And she was pregnant.

His Dad worried about getting CW “in trouble” with SW. He grovels and agrees with her in emails. Yet, he’s done with her.

Finally, so done that he can strangle her to death. The mouse roared.

We hate the ending. But there are things to be learned in an OBJECTIVE review of the preceding chapters. That’s not blaming the victim. That’s trying to learn from the tragedy.

Study: family killers are usually men and fit one of four distinct profiles | WIRED UK
"There are a variety of ways for men to be men, but what really is happening with family annihilation is that these are usually men who will reach a tipping point about various things within the particular category of family annihilator that we identify. To see it simply [as being] about women having a greater role [in modern society] might be trying to imply the woman is responsible, whereas in fact it's always about the man."

Inside the Mind of Family Annihilators

Fathers Who Kill Their Kids as Revenge Against the Mother

Pike County massacre: Some killers are 'family annihilators,' former FBI agent says

“Family Annihilators”: Understanding What Drives Fathers to Kill | TIME.com

Characteristics of family killers revealed: The male dominated crime most common in August

Why do men kill their families? After Colorado husband’s arrest, a look at 4 categories

Deadly Dads: Some of the Shocking Reasons Fathers Kill Their Own Children | The Forensic Outreach Library

Narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury - Wikipedia

‘Family Annihilator’ evades justice for 42 years - Rocky Mount Telegram

 

[AbbyG]

Imagine the women that sent love letters to CW. Lol, bet they had no idea as they put pen to paper, they were in essence, writing to the world.

Not sure of the sort of whack jobs who write love letters and fan mail to murderers in jail/prison really care; sorry to use the term "whack job," but they are certainly mentally ill.

 

[Trudie]

Do any of you see a book deal for NK?

I don’t. The relationship was so short lived, would she even have more to say, that wasn’t revealed to LE?

I read a few years ago, true crime book sales were dropping dramatically. This was attributed to the internet, easy access to up to date info & cable news.

 

[Thepoet]

I don't get your logic at all. Shannan had more to lose and somehow that contributed to causing her husband to murder her and her kids? Because she might be upset if he left her pregnant (and a pregnancy he suggested)? I think we all are interested din the why dunnit but if you take any time to research family annihilators, a category to which CW surely belongs, you will understand that there is absolutely nothing in the wife or children's behavior that needs examination. The toxicity is within the murderer, in every way. If his original wife had been NK and he had several kids with her and then met SW, the same thing would likely have happened. It's about freedom and responsibility, sexual newness, lack of empathy, shame, and many other things, I do think it is offensive and actually an intellectual farce and stupidity to keep looking at Shannan and how her particularities and their marriage contributed to what he did. JMO, MOO.

YES! BRAVO!

 

[margarita25]

Imagine the women that sent love letters to CW. Lol, bet they had no idea as they put pen to paper, they were in essence, writing to the world.

Jumping off this, jail pen pals and fans of inmates are nothing new thing as we know, look at Joran Van Der Sloot..I did wonder though about a couple of the letters if anyone might have been strategically trying to initiate a friendship and hope for some kind of confession or inside information from Chris so they could use it as negotiation material in their own cases (typical jail house snitch style).

I have to say I found all the letters quite entertaining. I can’t wait to read back and see what all you guys said about them.

——

I’m afraid that not only the people who wrote the letters to CW but also people who submitted tips, etc also ended up writing to the world. Again, I am mortified about this and I will definitely think twice about how I submit information to Law Enforcement in the future. For example, hypothetically next time I have an idea of where to search for a deceased body, I will send the information anonymously. So many people’s privacy has been violated, moo and this was one of my first thoughts when I started reading the discovery.

 

[Steelhead]

As far as the Metallica lyrics are concerned I think he knew exactly what the words were. It was his favorite band. The way people interpret songs and lryrics is individual and unique. I think it was very meaningful to him. Maybe he listened to it before the murder to psych himself up. Maybe he even fantasized about killing them long before that when he listened to the song. I don't know how old it is. At any rate it would appear he related to those particular lyrics. Sick.
I think the picture of the volcano is a sexual thing. Even the flowers are symbolic of sexuality.
It's perplexing that he would even relate to art or music in terms of expressing emotions, since he didn't seem to understand them. But I do think he was emotional when it came to his own "feelings." It was all about how things made him "feel." Maybe the Metallica lyrics was his way of trying to connect with his own feelings or in some sick way help him justify the need to eliminate the family, which he viewed as his source of pain. Hard to say with this particular sicko.

Aren’t those oil sites referred to as batteries? Maybe he was taking the song as a sign, telling him what to do. Like Manson did with Helter Skelter.

 

[Thepoet]

I'm going to step away for awhile. Deep breaths. Maybe a walk and then Mexican food for lunch. I know a great place where I can just relax and enjoy. Hmmmmm? Maybe a margarita?

Take care everyone and be gentle with each other. Shine like Shanann.

 

[sun16]

Not Larry, but yes they can.
Interestingly, Wisconsin uses an outside company to handle inmate funds, it’s in St. Louis, iirc. So, I bet he’s already getting money. All that’s needed is his inmate number. I’ve always found it astounding how many will send money to a notorious inmate.

Ok. thanks. Someone who was in Marion told me no (at least not there at Marion in Illinois). Must depend.

 

[Whiskers16]

We're taking a break to clean up.

 

[Whiskers16]

Hi all - thank you all for your patience while the thread was closed. It's amazing how much time it takes to scan each quoted post and response to ensure the thread is compliant with our TOS.

Going forward, zero tolerance, discussing the following topics will earn you an all-expenses-paid trip to the observation deck. Will it be 8 days? 3 days? 17 days? Spin the wheel to find out.
*insinuating blame on a MURDER VICTIM for their own MURDER
*advertising your use of the "ignore" function
*generalizations about other posters (ex. "all of a sudden everyone is victim blaming")
*discussion of other members' information (ex. join date, new to the thread, etc)
*nuts or bowls of nuts or ice cream or nutty ice cream or...
*responding to literally any of the above, in any fashion, including "mods said not to talk about that".

 

[PommyMommy]

NK admits she lied. See BBM

‘I don’t want to have this baby’: newly released texts reveal Shanann Watts’ anxiety over growing family
Prior to Watts’ confession to killing his wife, Kessinger expressed doubt regarding Watts’ honesty surrounding his family’s disappearance.

“I’m getting to the point with this situation where I am very concerned for his wife and children and this whole situation. I’m sure everybody else with this situation. And, um, after like finding out like, ‘Oh yeah, like, I’ve also got this child on the way with her and [he] just wasn’t very honest with me… I told him, ‘Please give me time to heal and please give me time to process this. And he’s like, ‘Are we done? Are we done?’ And I told them, I said, ‘No, we’re not.’

Yes we are, but he doesn’t need to know that. I just told him that because I was just, like, trying to find a way to, like, distance myself from him without alerting him that I’m really uncomfortable with everything that’s going on right now. Um, you know, I told him numerous times yesterday that I was scared, you know, I told him that I’m scared not because felt like for, like, my own safety, but I told him, like, I’m scared because I don’t know where she got scared because I’m scared for them. And then I told him, ‘You know, the fact that you weren’t honest with me, like, I don’t feel like I know you as long as I did.'”

 

[PommyMommy]

https://nypost.com/2018/12/07/parents-of-colorado-mom-open-up-about-daughters-murder/
The Rzuceks called Shanann a “phenomenal” mother who would “do anything for her children” and battled lupus for a long time.

The family at first “loved” Chris, whom Shanann had met through Facebook, they said on the program.

“You just don’t sleep very good with lupus,” Sandra Rzcuek said. “She had her head on his lap, and they were watching TV. He didn’t move. He didn’t get up to go to the bathroom. He didn’t get a drink. He let her sleep for four hours. I told her, ‘God must’ve sent him to you.’”

It wasn’t until Shanann went with the girls to visit her family in North Carolina for six weeks — while Chris stayed behind — that any marriage problems started cropping up.

Once Shannan and the kids arrived home, Shanann’s friend Addy told “20/20” that Shannann had texted her to say that Chris “had changed” and told her he didn’t “want another baby.”

 

[PommyMommy]

'He didn't give a flying flip': Shanann Watts' mother speaks about how emotionless her daughter's husband was when she was first reported missing
In preview clips of their interview on ABC News' "20/20", Shanann's mother, Sandra Rzucek, said her daughter's husband did not appear worried when his wife and daughters were first reported missing.

"He didn't give a flying flip," Rzucek recalled.

When Sandra and her husband Frank saw the interview, they said Watts was acting out of character.

He was "definitely somebody else," Shanann's mother said. "It was frightening."

 

[PommyMommy]

Chris Watts' In-Laws Didn't Want Him to Go on TV When Family Vanished — but They 'Thank God He Did'
At first, it was the exact opposite of what they wanted: On Aug. 14 Chris Wattswent on the local news to talk about his wife, Shanann Watts, and their two young daughters — all of whom had vanished the day before from the family’s home in Frederick, Colorado.

Shanann’s mother, Sandra Rzucek, warned him against just such a public appearance.

In hindsight, however, she’s glad he didn’t take her advice.

“I said, ‘Chris, I don’t think you should do any media,’ ” Rzucek recalled in an interview with ABC News airing Friday night on 20/20. “I said, ‘You’re the last one to have seen them, so I don’t think you should.’ “

“I thank God he did it,” Rzucek told ABC News. “I thank God in heaven that he didn’t listen to me.”

 

[kaykay543]

Are we allowed to talk about all the new things
That were released today? Like SW texts and new pictures?

 

[Moonracer]

Pommy thank you so much for the updates and for all you do!

'He didn't give a flying flip': Shanann Watts' mother speaks about how emotionless her daughter's husband was when she was first reported missing
In preview clips of their interview on ABC News' "20/20", Shanann's mother, Sandra Rzucek, said her daughter's husband did not appear worried when his wife and daughters were first reported missing.

"He didn't give a flying flip," Rzucek recalled.

When Sandra and her husband Frank saw the interview, they said Watts was acting out of character.

He was "definitely somebody else," Shanann's mother said. "It was frightening."

 

[PommyMommy]

‘Bad thoughts were going through my head’: Watts neighbor’s police interview details suspicion, ‘eerie’ feeling
Atkinson watched a neighbor’s camera footage from early that morning. It was 5:18 a.m., and Watts had backed his truck up into the garage and loaded something into the bed.

“That’s when my mind went bad — really bad,” Atkinson said. “What would he be loading up at 5:18 in the morning? And Shanann yells at him (when he uses the garage) because the garage wakes up the (girls) and the girls’ bedroom is right above the garage.”

In one exchange, Shanann tells her friend Watts wasn’t wearing his wedding ring, and he had changed his phone’s background photo to sand dunes. Unknown to both Shanann and Atkinson was this: Watts had spent time at the sand dunes with his mistress while Shanann was in North Carolina with the girls.

Shanann told Atkinson she would tell Watts to find a place when they got back from North Carolina, and she told him she was going to put the house on the market and takes the kids out of school to save money.

In a series of texts about a week before she would be murdered, Shanann laid out her thoughts on Watts’ posture toward the relationship.

“He’s obviously not in it. He’s not fighting. He’s not in love. He’s checked out.”

 

[Whiskers16]

Are we allowed to talk about all the new things
That were released today? Like SW texts and new pictures?

If you can link MSM, sure.

 

[PommyMommy]

More texts at the link: Texts Reveal Shanann Watts’ Marital Unhappiness With Chris Watts

The texts, released Friday, log a conversation that Shanann Watts had with a friend about her anxiety about her growing family and a lack of connection with Chris Watts.

Phrasing Shanann used includes “I can’t do this alone,” “I’m not happy” and “I can’t do this.”

Shanann also describes frustrations with her mother- and father-in-law, saying that “Chris is so submissive and gives in so easy,” referring to an incident where Chris’s mother-in-law gave Celeste certain foods, against Shanann’s wishes for healthreasons. Shanann also mentions that she’s been fighting her in-laws influence on Chris, and his submissiveness to them, for the length of their relationship.

Another text message describes a lack of physical affection between Chris and Shanann, and her growing frustration.