GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #65

[Gecko100]

Hello all I have just been over to Psychcentral and they have an article on malignant covert narcissists, mentioning Watts. If you go over there just search for the term. Embarrassed because I've forgotten how to link stuff ha ha

 

[x_files]

<modsnip - quoted post and response removed>
It's a done deal. He arranged for a plea and in that he admitted he killed them all. The DA never mentioned SW's occupation as a mitigating factor. As for the financial problems, the DA said they were no more serious than what many people experience.

The DA said CW's motive was he had a new love and he wanted a new life. Period. Amen. He slaughtered his entire family and but for the grace of G**, any woman could be Shanann and any baby could be Nico, Bella and Celeste. I can't help but wonder if the people who are doing this are afraid of that very stark fact. I'd suggest instead of trying to pin some kind of blame on Shanann, and feeling superior to her, they should instead pay very close attention to what's going on under their own roofs.

JMO.

It is frightening to think someone is capable of this kind of cold-blooded murder. So, yes maybe this scares the hell out of most people to accept it. Anyone working with people in LE knows this does indeed happen.

 

[Tortoise]

What I thought was interesting about how he viewed the pregnancy was a statement he made to investigatirs when the subject came up. I think it was after he had admitted to the affair. They asked him to go over the details of what happened that night and when he mentioned that Shanann was pregnant one of them asked him how he felt about it. It was the closest he had ever come to expressing anything about the pregnancy, other than the fact that he wanted a boy. He said that when they were talking about having another baby, Shanann said she was 80-20 for having a baby. Then after she got pregnant she told all her friends she was 70-30 against the pregnancy. He said he didn't understand why she would say that. He seemed genuinely confused. Then the investigator asked him if he knew that a lot of what he was saying didn't make sense and he immediately said "I know," so we didn't really hear him explain what he meant.
I don't know if it means anything significant or not, but I do think it's strange that he brought that particular point up. Why was that so meaningful to him? He seemed to be saying that at first he thought she wanted a baby, but then it seemed like she didn't. Maybe he saw it as rejection. I wish we had heard more from him about that. Imo

I think he was just getting himself tied up in knots and lying on the hoof. He wasn't too good at lies he hadn't had a chance to rehearse. Like when Tammy asked him who he went to the football game with. That was painful to watch because you could almost see his brain thinking do I carry on with this or not - how many minutes before I'm gonna be busted. That was like watching a pre-schooler lying.

 

[MsBetsy]

This probably won't go down very well but I feel a bit sorry for CW. He absolutely deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail, but I can't help but think he was a broken man who just lost it- like a complete mental break. He seems like the kind of passive, quiet guy who repressed his emotions. I do wonder if he had a history of mental health issues, or maybe he was just hiding them? He just looks so pitiful in some of the videos- even the ones with Shannan and the kids. I just can't figure this guy out and its bothering me. <modsnip - discussing other forums>. I just feel so sad for Shannan, the kids, the families AND Chris, all those lives ruined. I just feel sad.

I think he may have been "hollow" all his life. He was aware of it, tried to hide it, and learned how to act normal by observing others and maybe doing research.
He is indeed a truly pathetic, completely broken individual.
It's hard to feel sorry for him after all that he has done. If only he had gotten help a long time ago. I would really like to know the r

BBM. That also caught my attention because CW was also into jogging and exercise and should have no problem staying awake. I recently read the article in the link below and I was shocked and really concerned.

This medical study was just released:

"What I say to people who are studying is to avoid energy drinks. And to people who are exercising, avoid them," said Dr. John Higgins, chief of cardiology at Lyndon B. Johnson Hospital, a sports cardiologist and a professor at McGovern Medical School at UTHealth in Houston.


Higgins led a study that looked at the effects of energy drinks on blood vessel function on 44 non-smoking, healthy medical students who were in their 20s. He and his colleagues tested the students' blood vessel, or endothelial, function and then tested it again 90 minutes after they had consumed a 24-ounce energy drink.


The preliminary results, presented earlier this month at the American Heart Association's Scientific Sessions conference, suggest the drink reduced by about half how much the participants' blood vessels were able to dilate, or expand.

"During exercise or under stress, your arteries have to open up because they need to get blood to the muscles, heart and brain," Higgins said. "If there is impairment during exercise or mental stress, it could lead to adverse effects."

Energy drinks, cramming for final exams could be unhealthy mix

I think the fact that he was only getting about four hours of sleep a night, according to Nickol, probably didn't help. But I also don't think there was any mention of his drinking energy drinks, like Monsters or something like that, which have huge amounts of caffeine. I think he just used the Thrive Products. Imo

 

[Mamamiamaria]

Spoiled and selfish is what he was, imo, used to getting his own way. He decided he wanted out so he got out. Only problem is he didn't have the guts or the grace to allow Shanann have her life without him. He disposed of them all, not through rage, or mental illness but through selfishness. He wanted a new life without complication or responsibility. He has that now just not in the way he envisaged.

Only a monster kills and dumps their own children. Regardless of whether or not you believe his relationship with NK played a part in his decision, only a truly bad person could carry out what he did.

 

[Doghairrules]

I just watched the 20/20 episode and I am a HUGE fan of the show but was a bit unimpressed. There were a few places where they showed pics of Bella and "Cece" that clearly weren't of Cece. Also, they really went with the gas station video, huh? That is so obviously NOT CW that I think it's borderline reckless to have shown that. I hope that person comes forward to say it was them on that footage. Lastly, I feel they portrayed NK to be a lot more sympathetic than we know her to actually be. Anyone who hasn't read the discovery but has only seen this show and the Denver Post piece would find her to be such an innocent victim in all this, which she is most definitely not.

But it was really nice to see the Rzuceks and hear from them. It's sad that they even have to go on a national platform to defend their daughter, who is a murder victim. It was also nice to hear from her friends, particularly NUA. That poor girl is so distraught. I wish them all peace and healing.

I hope NUA gets some really good therapy. We should all be so lucky to have friends like her.

 

[human]

AreSW parents divorced?

 

[Tortoise]

AreSW parents divorced?

No.

 

[MsBetsy]

I actually believe that he will be a good candidate for a future psychiatric evaluation. Now that he has admitted he killed them all there is no deniability so I can't see why he would need to lie. The reasons for his lies were evident at the time (avoiding conviction and shame at having his mask ripped off) and I can understand the DA saying he didn't think anything he said would be truthful - that was how it seemed at that time, at the end of a very fast investigation. I think the right person could get him to talk if he felt safe. Just like the right people got him to tell them where he put the bodies. Given time, I think we will hear about life inside CW's head. He didn't want to go to therapy with Shanann because he had things to hide and he had a goal to specifically not make the marriage work. I hope he does put his sentence to good use so that others can understand.

I think he had a psych eval at the diagnostic Prison, which may have helped to determine where to place him. The problem is, he lies so much the tests may indicate deception and be inconclusive. But I'm sure they will still tell us something. I don't know if they will be made public or not. We have seen results in other cases but I don't know how that works. I am interested in seeing them. He may have just had a general assessment so far but I am hoping he will be given others, especially tests for specific Personality Disorders.

 

[kirkassoc]

Why did they need his foot print?

There were TWO garbage bags found at the crime scene as disclosed in the new discovery documents I read this morning. So, apparently he put his babies in garbage bags and wrapped Shanann in the fitted bed sheet to load them in the truck in case he was spotted. What a loving husband and father. He makes Freddie Kruger look like a saint, IMHO. I imagine he removed the bags so they wouldn't become lodged in anything. JMO, MOO. He reminds me of a walking, talking machine with some moving parts, but absolutely nothing going on inside.

 

[curiouschat]

This probably won't go down very well but I feel a bit sorry for CW. He absolutely deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail, but I can't help but think he was a broken man who just lost it- like a complete mental break. He seems like the kind of passive, quiet guy who repressed his emotions. I do wonder if he had a history of mental health issues, or maybe he was just hiding them? He just looks so pitiful in some of the videos- even the ones with Shannan and the kids. I just can't figure this guy out and its bothering me. <modsnip - discussing other forums>. I just feel so sad for Shannan, the kids, the families AND Chris, all those lives ruined. I just feel sad.

I've seen comments on youtube hoping NK kills herself too. The whole thing is so tragic, I know people are shocked and react to things differently but I don't feel better by thinking of retribution. I have no problem at all about him spending the rest of his life in jail and I would be truly appalled if he was somehow free to go on and make a new family or something.

The only thing is if it was some kind of psychotic break or extreme manic episode that he "recovers" from in any capacity, I would think his own mental torture over it all would be worse than anything anyone else could do to him, and I can't help but feel a pity about that (which is NOT the same as "supporting" him or being "team Chris" or whatever some might say)

 

[Trudie]

IMO, it’s not unreasonable to think he got mixed up in recreational drug use as he embarked on his newfound “bachelor lifestyle”.
I have not heard of any medical conditions he suffered for which opiate/opioids would be prescribed. But, they are readily available, off the street.
Every person is affected differently-no high or withdrawal symptom is the same.
Even using Oxy once or twice could cause a person to have cravings. Not full fledged addiction but the brain would be asking for more. This can’t be helped, even with Sub’ strips or methadone.
Interestingly, persons misusing Oxy need little sleep, suffer loss of appetite & feel relaxed although euphoric.
After it is wears off, the person wants more, more, more. If they can’t get any, problems occur.
The fact he worked FT & still had time for multiple hook-ups with NK makes me believe he was, at some point, using Oxy. No sleep, weight loss, energy-stamina. It all fits.
Didn’t the Rzuceks say “he snapped”, on 20-20?
Many crimes committed, as we know, are directly linked to drugs.
Where I live, the opiate abuse is staggering.
My dentist has an enormous sign: DO NOT ASK FOR PAIN Rx, in his office, CNN reported this week that dentists might be setting teens on the road to addiction by prescribing opiates after wisdom teeth are removed.

 

[Gecko100]

Watts is a victim/abuser. You see the same with all abuse, not always though I think it depends on the age it happens etc.
We tend to parent in the same way we were parented unless we actively change it. Intergenerational abuse occurs this way because the situations become normalised.
There is the nature/nurture debate too. James Fallon a neuroscientist, was examining the brain structures of men with Anti-Social Personality Disorder (psychopaths) against the structure of his own brain. They were the same, he was a psychopath related to Lizzie Borden. The difference being the nurturing. Interesting eh?

 

[book-thinker]

Anyone else having problems with this site tonight? Keeps dropping me off, then it takes ages to get back on.

First I thought my apple was causing issues. I gave up last night , the site kept dropping me .
The publicity on this case, and a burst of viewers, causing web overload.
Still have some issues today.

 

[x_files]

Strange that we find out with this doc dump that Ronnie has/had a cocaine problem when yesterday Shanann was accused of having one. I'm also surprised. I guessed he maybe had an alcohol issue.

I appreciate everyone bringing the doc dump info over. I'm not going to have much time to read this one. So thanks guys!

He obviously liked to project his addictions onto her. She may have used Thrive patches to give her energy. But, caffeine is not illegal.

 

[NanZDrew]

BBM, Agree and i believe Shanann's hyoid bone was also intact.
I think she was probably asleep when attacked by CW. She did get home around 2am. and would of been exhausted after her trip home i would think.
I wonder if she died from carotid artery compression rather than strangulation, which puts someone out very quickly, in a matter of seconds from what i read?

 

[NanZDrew]

I also believe he choked her out as you mentioned. I used to be married to a cop and have seen it done. A person becomes totally unconscious in seconds like a limp noodle. I think he did this to render her unconscious and then completed the act to death by strangulation.

Also at Cervi, Chris released little oil and photographed it. I have wondered if he staged a malfunction beforehand to have a reason to go there. No cameras there, no key pads and many isolated.

 

[LenaFromNola]

I think that Nutgate had more to do with these killings than previously thought. We know that Mama and Sister Watts never liked Shanann and there was always some tension there. According to her own words in her text messages, Shanann generally bit her tongue and tried to get along and keep the peace. She also told her friends that CW could never quite earn his mother’s approval, his entire life.

Her friend’s detailed account of Nutgate had three different examples of the family deliberately putting nuts in Cece’s path, clearly to infuriate Shanann. (Bag of pistachios on lower shelf, nuts in ice cream, sister putting a bowl of nuts on the table.) Shanann very understandably lost it, removed the kids for good, thus giving mom and sis a reason to twist their actions and make this all about Shanann and how evil she was. We saw them minimizing Nutgate all over social media including on this very forum. It wasn’t that they literally endangered her child’s life, it was that Shanann was unreasonable and awful, “bipolar,” “controlling,” etc. etc.

Enter Papa Watts, who wasn’t there but only knows what his wife and daughter have told him about Nutgate and all he knows for sure is his grandchildren are being deliberately withheld from his family. He’s never hated Shanann in the past the way his wife and daughter have, but now he’s furious at her and blocks both of them on social media, refuses to come to Cece’s party. Punishing the whole family for “Shanann’s actions.”

The latest doc dump shows CW did a lot of texting with his father after Nutgate, texts that he immediately deleted. Shanann tells her friends it was unusual for CW to delete his texts with his father, why would he have reason to do that unless he didn’t want her to see them? Most likely he was participating in the bashing of his wife by his family. This is probably the first time he did that, because now he was in a different frame of mind with the girlfriend. You can only imagine the approval he was finally getting from Mama, and to a lesser extent from sis and dad. For the first time this family is unified in their dislike for Shanann.

I think that was a very strong reinforcement for CW not just to “get rid of“ his wife via divorce, but really get rid of her. I think whatever coldness and distance he was feeling for his wife due to the affair was magnified times a million by his family.

CW also knew in the interrogation room that if he made this all Shanann’s fault, his family would accept that 100% and he was correct.

 

[x_files]

I 100% think there will be a book. NK's interviews show she has convinced herself her life is over. She will say she has no other choice but to write a tell-all to try to make some money. If she had any decency she would walk away and try to live a normal life. No one knows the sordid details of her sexual encounters with CW-- I haven't even seen the "raunchy texts" between them released -- and very few people care to know those details IMO. She doesn't have to reveal her most private moments just because a little info is out there now. But she's not a decent person as evidenced by her interviews. She's all about "damage control" and will write a book to try to make herself look like an innocent victim. It will backfire on her though, because in order to make herself look good she has to trample on the memories of the real victims-- Shanann, CeCe, Bella and Niko. JMO.

I will boycott it. I do not support it. Blood money.

 

[MsBetsy]

I think he was just getting himself tied up in knots and lying on the hoof. He wasn't too good at lies he hadn't had a chance to rehearse. Like when Tammy asked him who he went to the football game with. That was painful to watch because you could almost see his brain thinking do I carry on with this or not - how many minutes before I'm gonna be busted. That was like watching a pre-schooler lying.

Yes, that was obvious because he couldn't come out with their names right away. But when he mentioned 80/20 and 70/30 It wasn't even in response to a direct question. He didn't think about it at all, he just blurted it out. And his lying about it wouldn't suggest any kind of deception. If anything it would suggest he wanted the baby more than she did, and the purpose of the questioning was to see if he had issues about the pregnancy. So it doesn't make sense.
I just think there was a specific reason why he said it. It was as if he was looking to them for an answer to his question.
Maybe in his mind he saw it as a betrayal, as if she tricked him into the pregnancy. Or that having a boy was an extension of himself, and he saw her as rejecting him in some way. It's hard to tell. But I do think it's important because that would have been right around the time or right before the affair started. Even though he told so many lies, there is still much that can be interpreted about some of the things he said. Imo