GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #66

[Jennifer17]

Yes, it is a profile Brad Garrett often gives to the media and I wonder if he invented it. In that case he was wrong.

An experienced FBI agent is wrong and you are right?

 

[ZsaZsa]

The DA cared. He cared that he was getting a conviction quickly in one of the highest profile cases in the country/world. Does wonders for one’s career.

That is cynical and insulting. I would say that most of us here were impressed with Mr Rourke from the first time he appeared. He was an authentic straight arrow if ever I saw one. He is ethical and compassionate and I don't think politics ever came near this case. This was a vicious child killer, of course he wanted the case solved as soon as possible.

 

[MassGuy]

The DA cared. He cared that he was getting a conviction quickly in one of the highest profile cases in the country/world. Does wonders for one’s career.

He certainly did care, and many of us on here were in awe of him and still are.

Fortunately, CW begged him for a plea deal, and the DA only accepted after Watts agreed to plead guilty to everything he was charged with.

Then he flew to North Carolina, and allowed the Rcuzek family to make the decision as to if he should accept the deal.

He was nails.

 

[mtnlites]

Lost control of what?
He was not in love with NK. He saw something that fitted what he thought he was entitled to.

He lost control and acted out in rage. SW pushed his buttons. He was on drugs.

All various ways of ignoring the truth: that he planned the murders of his family and wanted them gone.

 

[Jennifer17]

That is cynical and insulting. I would say that most of us here were impressed with Mr Rourke from the first time he appeared. He was an authentic straight arrow if ever I saw one. He is ethical and compassionate and I don't think politics ever came near this case. This was a vicious child killer, of course he wanted the case solved as soon as possible.

How can a murder case be political?

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, it is a profile Brad Garrett often gives to the media and I wonder if he invented it. In that case he was wrong.

Yes. Profilers are sometimes wrong.

It is both an art and a science and in his case, it is based on incomplete information as he is not actively involved in the cases that he is consulted on by the media.

You can “wonder if he invented it,” but you’d be absolutely wrong.

 

[CarnegieHall]

That is cynical and insulting. I would say that most of us here were impressed with Mr Rourke from the first time he appeared. He was an authentic straight arrow if ever I saw one. He is ethical and compassionate and I don't think politics ever came near this case. This was a vicious child killer, of course he wanted the case solved as soon as possible.

You may find it cynical and insulting but that’s just your opinion. And factually there’s nothing wrong with what he did. He set out to prosecute for the Watts murders and that’s what he did. He delivered what, 7 first-degree pleas. What is insulting about that?

 

[Deleted member 182072]

Don't mind me, I just wanted to get this off my chest.
I've recently seen folks claiming that the inmate killed his family in a rage who are STILL looking to SW for what triggered all of this.
Some are them are using the SAME arguments that were used by folks who believed that SW killed her babies in a rage, like saying how SW would've had a more difficult transition in a divorce, etc.
How does that make any sense?
They also say they just want to learn from this to protect children in the future.
How does second guessing SW help?
He never even asked her for a divorce or a separation.
Was she to supposed anticipate that he might become a family annihilator and say something like this?:

"Dear Chris, If we divorce in the future, I promise not to make any claims on you for child support, daycare and medical expenses. You can even keep all of the proceeds from the house for yourself. Also, if you lied to your mistress about being in the final stages of divorce, I will tell her it was all my fault and make things right for you both." *not SW's words - all made up by me to make a point​

What if he just no longer wanted to be a dad to Bella, Cece and Niko, but he didn't want to be the jerk who left his pregnant wife and little girls?
What was she supposed to do exactly to prevent him from killing his family to get a fresh start for himself?

OR maybe, just maybe, we should only look to the monster himself, along with the toxic Watts family for answers.

 

[Jennifer17]

The narcissist that I knew and worked for for twenty years, when he was running his wife down to me one day (he did not know that I was aware of his steamy affair with another woman) and I was defending her, said to me 'intellectually, I deserve better'. That say it all about narcs to me.

 

[Ilovemy3boys]

You may find it cynical and insulting but that’s just your opinion. And factually there’s nothing wrong with what he did. He set out to prosecute for the Watts murders and that’s what he did. He delivered what, 7 first-degree pleas. What is insulting about that?

The great thing in all this is there was justice and it was quick. The monster is obviously never ever getting out of prison. What’s bad about that?

 

[PommyMommy]

But it was still a win-win for DA and prosecution. Case closed, no more resources spent, and they didn’t have to budge an inch on their demands. Plus, they didn’t have to go through a messy trial.

Of course. But that's quite different than saying it was some kind of career move. MOO

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, and key is THEY are attracted to you. They look for tenderhearted, empathetic people that will try to make them happy and fix their inadequacies. Love is based on what you DO for them. They say things like, "I love you more than I have ever loved anyone, because nobody has ever done as much for me as you have." Look how CW said SW was the first person he felt he could ever be himself with. Notice in one of SW's texts how she said that she stood up to his family taking up for him. They find mates that will be their champions. When the find someone else who they think will better serve their needs, they will cast that person away like yesterday's garbage. Their parting words might be something like, "I don't NEED your ash."

They are in love with the "ideal" love. They fall quickly in love with someone they think is perfect and then as they see the person is not perfect, they start to despise that person. CW and NK were a perfect example of that. Look how crazy he fell for her so fast. They will try to rush you into marriage quickly so they do not have to continue to be this fake person that pretends to be kind and romantic.

Narcissism is a personality disorder...not a mental illness. Personality disorders cannot be cured, and narcissists especially are resistant to change because they think they are perfect. No amount of love will fix them. Their victims usually will try harder and harder to please them, which just makes the narcissist lose respect for the victim and hold them in contempt. Look at how CW treated SW in the final stages.

It is risky breaking off with a narcissist. They can become very dangerous. They make you feel responsible for them and what might happen to them or others if you leave. You may feel like you are in the eye of a hurricane trying to steer in away from self destruction and the destruction of others. You know that you are in a dangerous place, but that place seems safer than trying to go through the storms to get out of the hurricane. If you leave, get the help of others before you leave. Treat it was leaving an abusive relationship because it will be traumatic. Staying will just be increasingly traumatic and dangerous.

A book that I found very helpful was "Malignant Self Love, Narcissm Revisited" by Sam Vaknin.

Well said!

 

[Jennifer17]

You may find it cynical and insulting but that’s just your opinion. And factually there’s nothing wrong with what he did. He set out to prosecute for the Watts murders and that’s what he did. He delivered what, 7 first-degree pleas. What is insulting about that?

The insulting part is that you seem to imply that he did it for his own gain, not for the good of society.

 

[molly1255]

And none of that proves the DA doesn't care, which is what you said. He clearly demonstrated that he cared. Why would he talk about personality disorders? He's the district attorney, not a psychologist. MOO

love!!

 

[ZsaZsa]

You may find it cynical and insulting but that’s just your opinion. And factually there’s nothing wrong with what he did. He set out to prosecute for the Watts murders and that’s what he did. He delivered what, 7 first-degree pleas. What is insulting about that?

What is insulting is that you insinuate his motives are just for political purposes or for advancing his career. He took a child killer and put him away for life.

 

[MassGuy]

Don't mind me, I just wanted to get this off my chest.
I've recently seen folks claiming that the inmate killed his family in a rage who are STILL looking to SW for what triggered all of this.
Some are them are using the SAME arguments that were used by folks who believed that SW killed her babies in a rage, like saying how SW would've had a more difficult transition in a divorce, etc.
How does that make any sense?
They also say they just want to learn from this to protect children in the future.
How does second guessing SW help?
He never even asked her for a divorce or a separation.
Was she supposed anticipate that he might become a family annihilator and say something like this?:

"Dear Chris, If we divorce in the future, I promise not to make any claims on you for child support, daycare and medical expenses. You can even keep all of the proceeds from the house for yourself. Also, if you lied to your mistress about being in the final stages of divorce, I will tell her it was all my fault and make things right for you both." *not SW's words - all made up by me to make a point​

What if he just no longer wanted to be a dad to Bella, Cece and Niko, but he didn't want to be the jerk who left his pregnant wife and little girls?
What was she supposed to do exactly to prevent him from killing his family to get a fresh start for himself?

OR maybe, just maybe, we should only look to the monster himself, along with the toxic Watts family for answers.

Exactly. When experts analyze people like CW, they look at him specifically.

They look at his traits, his behaviors. That’s where you can find some answers.

What they do not do, is look at the victim and try to figure out what she did to make him kill her.

He did this. Not her.

 

[CarnegieHall]

The great thing in all this is there was justice and it was quick. The monster is obviously never ever getting out of prison. What’s bad about that?

Exactly.. that’s what I said. What I don’t is why i can’t keep in mind who the DA is and what his job is.

 

[NanZDrew]

But why was he telling anyone where her things were on Monday morning? She was supposed to be in bed asleep when he left and NUA had not discovered her missing at that stage.

McCoy and others were with CW when her friends started calling him and asking where she was and when the police called as well. He had also been telling them for a while that they were having problems. This was his explanation to them to make them think she had left him.

 

[Jennifer17]

Don't mind me, I just wanted to get this off my chest.
I've recently seen folks claiming that the inmate killed his family in a rage who are STILL looking to SW for what triggered all of this.
Some are them are using the SAME arguments that were used by folks who believed that SW killed her babies in a rage, like saying how SW would've had a more difficult transition in a divorce, etc.
How does that make any sense?
They also say they just want to learn from this to protect children in the future.
How does second guessing SW help?
He never even asked her for a divorce or a separation.
Was she to supposed anticipate that he might become a family annihilator and say something like this?:

"Dear Chris, If we divorce in the future, I promise not to make any claims on you for child support, daycare and medical expenses. You can even keep all of the proceeds from the house for yourself. Also, if you lied to your mistress about being in the final stages of divorce, I will tell her it was all my fault and make things right for you both." *not SW's words - all made up by me to make a point​

What if he just no longer wanted to be a dad to Bella, Cece and Niko, but he didn't want to be the jerk who left his pregnant wife and little girls?
What was she supposed to do exactly to prevent him from killing his family to get a fresh start for himself?

OR maybe, just maybe, we should only look to the monster himself, along with the toxic Watts family for answers.

BBM. The very same people.

 

[Karinna]

As Investigators in some of the murder cases they investigate state, just "Incomprehensible". In other words normal beings will never understand these things as long as we live. They will never make sense.