GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #67

[margarita25]

Well, there’s state-run witness protection and then there’s the Federal witness protection program (WITSEC). If she received death threats (certainly possible, there are disturbed individuals out there), she will surely get some sort of witness protection by LE, but I don’t think she will get the Federal witness protection program/change of identity.

Do I recall her ironically (and aptly) saying something in the interview about “what’s the point” of a name change if it’s public record lol...

 

[BelleIsle]

Agree, I think you hit the spot. I see a covert narcissist, not a psychopath. He was panicky and worried too much about how he is perceived by others. Not typical for psychopaths, but narcs lose it when their mask slips.

IMO I have to disagree here, oftentimes sociopaths want everyone to like them, it's easier to manipulate people when they think you're a nice, genuine person. It's also great for making the one who is closest to you feel crazy (gaslighting). IMO female narcissists tend to raise sociopathic sons, and daughters who either push back and grow away from mom, or become narcissists themselves. I read CW as a sociopath with learned narcissistic tendencies, NK as borderline (BPD) with sociopathic tendencies.

 

[Jennifer17]

Do I recall her ironically (and aptly) saying something in the interview about “what’s the point” of a name change if it’s public record lol...

She thinks that she is so important that people would check?

 

[Seattle1]

Hopefully that works.

Hi everyone, I've missed you all!!

Big thanks @BabyButterfly for uploading entire show since Dr Phil show was preempted in WA for coverage of local Tornado!

 

[Seattle1]

I’ve just started listening and right at the start Dr Phil does say he (CW) had to break their bones to get them in this hole.....
I don’t recall any mention of broken bones on the autopsy report.

Dr Phil made an assumption based on the girls should to shoulder measurement, compared to the 8" opening of the thief hatch to the oil tank. No broken shoulder bones were reported in autopsy reports, so Dr Phil was not making statement of fact. Unfortunately - sensationalism is part of every episode. (Also, I believe CW likely held the arms of girls over their heads which would have collapsed their shoulders just enough to pass through the hatch opening). MOO

 

[Seattle1]

Thanks, Pommy.

What about this call for hair products and the transaction that was supposedly denied? What’s the deal/consensus/confirmation with this? Thanks very much.

There was no confirmation if SW physically placed an order for hair product on Amazon in the early 2am morning hours on Monday, or if SW had an auto purchase and delivery setup for her hair product. Nonetheless, payment for the purchase was allegedly denied by her bankcard.

 

[cybervampira]

IMO I have to disagree here, oftentimes sociopaths want everyone to like them, it's easier to manipulate people when they think you're a nice, genuine person. It's also great for making the one who is closest to you feel crazy (gaslighting). IMO female narcissists tend to raise sociopathic sons, and daughters who either push back and grow away from mom, or become narcissists themselves. I read CW as a sociopath with learned narcissistic tendencies, NK as borderline (BPD) with sociopathic tendencies.

Yes, psychopaths (to stay with the FBI profiler‘s diagnosis) want those they can use to like them, but they don‘t do it for the praise like narcs do, it’s more a necessity. Psychopaths love power but they do not depend on being liked. They both can be charming, and they both can be prolific liars, but a psychopath couldn’t care less what others think of them. They wouldn’t sit in the interview room crying and begging not to bring coworkers to Cervi. They wouldn’t start shaking and acting nervous, watching the neighbor’s surveillance tape. Psychopaths don’t experience fear. A narcissist does once there is a threat he is exposed, and that’s exactly what happened with CW. If you want to see a real psychopath, look at Drew Peterson.

I don’t know how you see BPD/sociopathic tendencies in NK. From what I’ve seen, she may be a lil‘ neurotic and self-centered, but that’s just my impression.

 

[Penny Parker]

I wish I could bring this precious family back.
There's no real closure for me when the murderer is given life after taking life from those who loved him most. He still gets to breathe!
I hope SW's family finds healing someday.
I also hope CW's family will reflect on how to be positive examples for the next generation- those who are left. May something good come out of this.

Shanann, Bella, CeCe, Nico... it feels like I know you. Miss you guys.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Getting a little advance publicity for her soon to be published book, although I can't imagine that she would have enough material for a book, unless she pads it with how wonderful she is.

It's already on my boycott list, written or not.

 

[JEM1975]

You know, I've been thinking about this since we had a break from the thread. We live in an entitled world where we want what we want when we want it, even if it belongs to someone else. It's definitely getting worse with the new generation and I know that I personally contributed to that with my own 2 millennials. In wanting to protect then from the hardships of life and give them everything I didn't have , I know that I unfortunately contributed to their feelings of entitlement. It is one of my biggest regrets in life because life is hard, people go without and we all should learn this! I'm saying this because that's the feeling I get from NK, she wanted what she wanted and that was CW. She knew he was married with children and another on the way. She still wanted him and nothing was going to stand in her way. I'm not saying she had anything directly to do with the murders, I don't believe that but the consequences of her actions definitely included this horrific tragedy. Now that she got what she wanted for a time and she's faced with the consequences, it's as if she almost expects the government to fix it for her, to change her identity and move her somewhere nobody will know her.

How do we as a society undo what we have created with this entitled generation? I'm asking because I think about this all the time. If this is how young people see the world, we are in real trouble.

The magnitude of what has been lost.....4 PRECIOUS lives, 4 beautiful people who will no longer be a presence in this world, is staggering. The Rzucek's will undoubtedly suffer for the rest of their lives. Many of us have been affected so deeply, so profoundly that it has changed us. I understand the need to self protect but to me it feels like a slap in the face that NKs primary concern is HER and trying to erase what she contributed to by running away and changing her name. I can only pray that someone in her life will tell her how important and life changing it would be to stand up, own her mistakes, seek forgiveness and begin to heal so that she can be a good and productive member of this world we live in.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Oh Nancy! I remember the days of Nancy Grace nightly rants watching this clip. She got in a nice little, "Dr. Phil though, wait, hold on a moment... NK should not feel THAT special." Lol. Although then she went on about how CW was seeing other people on Tinder. But it was such a Nancy Grace golden years flashback.

I lost a bet with myself watching Nancy on dr. Phil yesterday. When she started tearing up I was positive she was going to go into her twins. But she actually went through a whole program without mentioning her twins.

 

[tmar]

...
We live in an entitled world where we want what we want when we want it, even if it belongs to someone else.
....
I'm saying this because that's the feeling I get from NK, she wanted what she wanted and that was CW. She knew he was married with children and another on the way. She still wanted him and nothing was going to stand in her way. I'm not saying she had anything directly to do with the murders, I don't believe that but the consequences of her actions definitely included this horrific tragedy. Now that she got what she wanted for a time and she's faced with the consequences, it's as if she almost expects the government to fix it for her, to change her identity and move her somewhere nobody will know her.

How do we as a society undo what we have created with this entitled generation? I'm asking because I think about this all the time. If this is how young people see the world, we are in real trouble.
....
I understand the need to self protect but to me it feels like a slap in the face that NKs primary concern is HER and trying to erase what she contributed to by running away and changing her name. I can only pray that someone in her life will tell her how important and life changing it would be to stand up, own her mistakes, seek forgiveness and begin to heal so that she can be a good and productive member of this world we live in.

Parts deleted from your post, by myself, for brevity.
Thank you JEM, for these points.
NK has been all about herself, throughout her interviews, showing little concern for the tragic outcome.
Wonder, with time, changes in her 'new lifestyle' will be beneficial/productive towards forgiveness.
I guess it may be part of her character, her background and these 'words of wisdom' are beyond her, at present.
MOO.

 

[PommyMommy]

Is there a general consensus/confirmation on if there really was an interaction between CW and AM? Tia.

Not really.

Thanks, Pommy.

What about this call for hair products and the transaction that was supposedly denied? What’s the deal/consensus/confirmation with this? Thanks very much.

Just speculation that it may have been set up as an auto-purchase, it may have caused an argument that morning, etc. Unfortunately, the last few threads seemed to focus more on NK than anything.
MOO

 

[Tippy Lynn]

I think NK’s overnight guest was more than a friend. I looked at her call records and there were multiple calls between the two on most days.
jmo

 

[BabyButterfly]

I wholeheartedly agree. My husband didn't and isn't following this story like I do, and if said her name or showed him a picture right now of NK, he'd have no clue who she is.

Seriously, if I ran right into her on the street, I would have no clue who she is. She just has no features that stand out.

 

[x_files]

Do I recall her ironically (and aptly) saying something in the interview about “what’s the point” of a name change if it’s public record lol...

If so, witness protection could benefit it after all.

 

[NuttMegg]

Somewhere in the second document dump there are text messages between NK and a detective. She tells him she already got a new job out of state. I think it took her all of three weeks to secure new employment, IIRC. This Witness Protection stuff is a bunch of garbage.

It's also reported in today's Daily Mail article:

Kessigner also told authorities in interview tapes that were obtained by DailyMail.com under a open records request that she had left the state of Colorado and started a new job.
Killer Chris Watts' mistress 'is in witness protection' | Daily Mail Online
MOO

Hey Pommy! I missed you and your pinterest vault. Why would the state of Colorado have to pay to relocate her or even contribute to any bills at all. I think it's just another Daily Mail sensation piece.

 

[PommyMommy]

Hey Pommy! I missed you and your pinterest vault. Why would the state of Colorado have to pay to relocate her or even contribute to any bills at all. I think it's just another Daily Mail sensation piece.

Hi NuttMegg, I have missed you too (and this thread in general)! There are state level witness protections programs but I don't think Colorado has one. The main reason I don't believe this witness protection stuff though, is that she had already secured new employment out of state near the end of August and moved on with her life as far as I can tell.
MOO

 

[Mellowmelly]

Apparently NK is under witness protection and changing her name

Killer Chris Watts' mistress 'is in witness protection' | Daily Mail Online

"Said it would be hard for her to go out in public 'for years' due to threats
Chris Watts' mistress is in witness protection hundreds of miles from home and will be given a new name and identity, it has been reported. "

I don’t understand, if she really had nothing to do with the crime itself, why witness protection?

 

[scdiv]

I don’t understand, if she really had nothing to do with the crime itself, why witness protection?

Exactly. She can legally change her name all on her own if she really feels she must, move somewhere, and lay low. She does not need to be "protected" from anyone or be given an entire new identity. That's ridiculous.