GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #67

[Seenit]

That is rather creepy.

Creepy that we went to the house or creepy that there is a package sitting there?

 

[ray9898]

Why do you suppose she initially lied (and possibly continued lying, for all we know) about the number of times she visited at SW house, and how many times do you think she really went? Where do you think she left her car on the July 4th visit? I think it's creepy that she even went upstairs to SW and the kids sleeping area.

Who said she even lied about how many times she went to the house? Either way, I really see it as a non-issue. She was interacting to a man who claimed to be separated from his wife and well on the way to divorce. The wife had been absent from the home for weeks which would make CW's claim that much more believable. Being apart for that length of time is not normal in any marriage I know of outside of my military friends.

 

[Seenit]

Why do you suppose she initially lied (and possibly continued lying, for all we know) about the number of times she visited at SW house, and how many times do you think she really went? Where do you think she left her car on the July 4th visit? I think it's creepy that she even went upstairs to SW and the kids sleeping area.

Just my own opinion here...but have heard it far too many times to not notice a pattern. I think a lot of the "affair partners" visit the family home. I think they get a thrill out of it. Just another way to violate personal boundaries. Which they have already demonstrated they are okay with doing being that they are the AP. Just more mind boogling stuff.
Wish I could put an eye rolling or puking emoji on.

 

[NuttMegg]

Who said she even lied about how many times she went to the house? Either way, I really see it as a non-issue. She was interacting to a man who claimed to be separated from his wife and well on the way to divorce. The wife had been absent from the home for weeks which would make CW's claim that much more believable. Being apart for that length of time is not normal in any marriage I know of outside of my military friends.

Maybe you don't consider it a lie when a person says I went over there once, and then the next day or 2 says it was really twice. How many times do you think it really was? Did you think she hid her car and snuck over there on the 4th of July, when he let her in the front door, as he was already there?

You think it's not creepy that she chose to go upstairs to the loft playroom and looked over the children's books? But, of course did not actually go into the bedrooms. Was CW with her when she went up there? What, in the loft and SW's family area would have given NK the impression that the couple was separated?If the couple was separated, as you maintain, why would she go up into SW's part of the house? Creepy and sleazy beyond belief.

Being apart for weeks is normal in many relationships, especially when a woman is pregnant and wants both the families to see her other children before the time comes that she can't fly. And for families with summer homes, and for families with members who travel for business and education.

How many weeks before Shan'ann left on 27 June were CW and NK having sex? Did you see what their texts said, only a couple of days after SW went to visit the families?

 

[ray9898]

Maybe you don't consider it a lie when a person says I went over there once, and then the next day or 2 says it was really twice. How many times do you think it really was? Did you think she hid her car and snuck over there on the 4th of July, when he let her in the front door, as he was already there?

You think it's not creepy that she chose to go upstairs to the loft playroom and looked over the children's books? But, of course did not actually go into the bedrooms. Was CW with her when she went up there? What, in the loft and SW's family area would have given NK the impression that the couple was separated?If the couple was separated, as you maintain, why would she go up into SW's part of the house? Creepy and sleazy beyond belief.

Being apart for weeks is normal in many relationships, especially when a woman is pregnant and wants both the families to see her other children before the time comes that she can't fly.

How many weeks before Shan'ann left on 27 June were CW and NK having sex? Did you see what their texts said, only a couple of days after SW went to visit the families?

In what interview did she claim she visited once?

Either way, all of that is meaningless in the end. Her story is believable, LE who actually investigated who had access to everything found nothing to disprove it. This is like beating a dead horse.

 

[NuttMegg]

In what interview did she claim she visited once?

Either way, all of that is meaningless in the end. Her story is believable, LE who actually investigated who had access to everything found nothing to disprove it. This is like beating a dead horse.

It would help if you listened to her phone calls with LE, and watched both long videos or at least listened to the audio, then we could have a balanced conversation about what she claimed to LE. Otherwise I am just conversing with someone who has not reviewed the subject matter, no offense.

LE did not say that there was nothing to "disprove" her story. DA said she was not completely forthcoming. He qualified her interviews by actually saying she was less than forthcoming.

Nope, not a dead horse, from my POV I don't think she held a role in actually being present in the house during the murders, but there is a big gray area of possible triggers, ultimatums, motives, etc. And those are like billboards when it is taken into account her entering SW's private area of the house, lying about how many times she went over there, her insistence on finding an apartment for him even when he was clearly no longer interested (per one of her interviews you also may have missed).

And even worse, claiming that she was trying to get CW and SW to reconsider their "separation" all the while sending him nude photos of herself while he was in NC.

 

[ray9898]

Still meaningless unless someone just wants to gossip. She was the mistress of a man who committed a crime that shocked the nation. Nothing more.

 

[NuttMegg]

Still meaningless unless someone just wants to gossip. She was the mistress of a man who committed a crime that shocked the nation. Nothing more.

Well if you don't feel like reviewing her interviews with LE I can half way see why you are brushing it off as just a meaningless affair.

Not gossip, I was trying to understand why you feel the way you do about brushing off her influence on his psyche in the run up to the murders, but the discussion entails actually listening to what she claimed, and understanding why LE said she was less than forthcoming.

Anyway, never mind, no requirement for any poster to actually listen to the interviews.

 

[Thepoet]

To me all this shows disorganization and panic. I know it is popular on here to claim he was unintelligent but he wasn't. You don't graduate from a pretty intense technical school for mechanics, become a Ford Master Mechanic or gain the nickname of 'Rainman' from your oil field co-workers by being an idiot.

He made many mistakes that seem dumb on their own but I attribute many to being blunders made in a panic and some because he was unable to finish with his cover up. His plan was cut short when LE became involved early and he had to play the hand he was dealt which wasn't a very good one.

I thought I'd be gone until after the New Year, but things change and here I am. I've noted that there seems to be some defense of CW and NK, subtle to be sure, but defense none the less.

CW IS an idiot. There are lots of idiots who excel in one certain thing, but fail elsewhere. If CW's co-workers called him; "Rainman", it was probably derogatory. The definition of "Rainman" is, someone mentally or socially inept! I believe that CW is of average intelligence, at best, and only when there is no stress. Stress seems to trigger stupidity in CW. An example of stupidity; the gift cards for dinner. That was stupid. Why not just use cash? Gift cards can be traced, cash can't. Lots of intelligent explanations can be made for using cash, but gift cards. . . . . . . ? Even NK questioned them. Also, gift cards cost money and his finances were supposed to be tight. And then, he finally uses a credit card. That was a change in behavior, which was later picked up on and noted by LE. Bravado, but still stupid. I also believe that CW is emotionally and socially stunted.

I do believe CW had a plan, which was altered by the delayed flight and later by NUA's determination and tenacity! That does not mean he was smart. Even stupid people can make plans. If he was smart his plan would have been to separate, hire an attorney, and file for divorce.

As to NK, she may well have been lucky that CW capitulated so quickly. If the DA had faced a continuing investigation and a trial, he might have taken legal action against NK. She destroyed what may have been evidence and she did so deliberately. NK has shown herself, through her words and actions, to be a liar, selfish, manipulative, and sneaky. She only went to LE, because she knew they would be coming to her, and then ONLY after she had deleted what she felt might be damaging to her! NK, like her paramour CK, is a proven liar. We can't and shouldn't believe her. CK lied to and deceived her employer, violating company rules. She lied to and tried to deceive LE. She lied to and deceived the media (her first interview). Things like; how many times she went to the Watts house and why she went there, are irrelevant There is a dark, dirty, and suspicious period of activity, by CW and NK, that we don't know much, if anything, about, including the true knowledge NK had of SW and the state of the marriage, NK's knowledge of the day of the murders, and NK's actions the day of the murders. We only know what they've told us 0r allowed us to see (NK deleted a lot and maybe more than we know). Logically, CW and NK have hidden much, and only guilty people hide things.

MOO BBM

 

[Bravo]

It was clear to me thru Interviews that NK was distancing and minimizing. Her demeanor angered me. I would like to think if it were me I would be so sickened I would be forthright and help LE in any way I could. It wouldn't be about "me". It's just my opinion. Of her.

 

[Trudie]

Just my own opinion here...but have heard it far too many times to not notice a pattern. I think a lot of the "affair partners" visit the family home. I think they get a thrill out of it. Just another way to violate personal boundaries. Which they have already demonstrated they are okay with doing being that they are the AP. Just more mind boogling stuff.
Wish I could put an eye rolling or puking emoji on.

I agree. Also, it’s a peek inside the life of the wife. What does she have? Is she clean? What’s her decor style? What might I get (thru property dissolution) for our future house. Also, it can verify or not if there’s a real separation.

 

[Thepoet]

Well if you don't feel like reviewing her interviews with LE I can half way see why you are brushing it off as just a meaningless affair.

Not gossip, I was trying to understand why you feel the way you do about brushing off her influence on his psyche in the run up to the murders, but the discussion entails actually listening to what she claimed, and understanding why LE said she was less than forthcoming.

Anyway, never mind, no requirement for any poster to actually listen to the interviews.

Well said. NK, by her own admission, was trying to influence many facets of CW's life, including his diet, his finances, and where he would/should live. That is MORE than a simple mistress.

 

[NuttMegg]

I agree. Also, it’s a peek inside the life of the wife. What does she have? Is she clean? What’s he decor style? What might I get (thru property dissolution) for our future house. Also, it can verify or not if there’s a real separation.

A poster maintains that NK thought they were separated (thus justifying the affair). Yet, given the CW/NK texts dated just a couple of days after SW left, it seems obvious to me their sexual trysts began well before the point that SW and girls left for NC. (Scratch that excuse) And, if they really were separated, why is NK poking around in SW's part of the house? (Scratch that excuse again)

She seems so blithe and unconcerned that a pregnant woman and 2 very young kids were murdered by her boyfriend just a few hours after their last date. Except for the one interview where she said "They are sooooo Litttllle", and a few other bizarre laments before she began sobbing in earnest, more for her own situation than SW's, IMO.

I don't care about her, and would quit even mentioning her pathetic existence if posters didn't come on as apologists misrepresenting what she actually said in interviews.

 

[Pasasana]

Who said she even lied about how many times she went to the house? Either way, I really see it as a non-issue. She was interacting to a man who claimed to be separated from his wife and well on the way to divorce. The wife had been absent from the home for weeks which would make CW's claim that much more believable. Being apart for that length of time is not normal in any marriage I know of outside of my military friends.

There are many husbands and wives who travel for work. I have one.

 

[human]

Well if you don't feel like reviewing her interviews with LE I can half way see why you are brushing it off as just a meaningless affair.

Not gossip, I was trying to understand why you feel the way you do about brushing off her influence on his psyche in the run up to the murders, but the discussion entails actually listening to what she claimed, and understanding why LE said she was less than forthcoming.

Anyway, never mind, no requirement for any poster to actually listen to the interviews.

If anyone is blaming NK for his actions, then they must blame SW for her actions that caused him to stray.

Do you see what I am saying?

He alone is responsible for what he did.

No one makes anyone do anything in this world . It is more impossible it they are holding a gun to your head or holding something else compelling over you such as job loss, but CW does not have that as a reason.

He alone is the decider.

NK went after a married man. Perhaps she believed it was over. Why not. It seems like there are plenty of women that stay with a married man thinking one day he will leave the wife. Some stay for years. Most of those men do not physically annihilate their families. Just mentally

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Why would NK not look up the wife? Why would she not be curious?

Exactly. Why would she search a man leaving his wife for his Mistress, if she had no idea he was married. We know that's a lie. Why look for wedding dresses,macros, apartment.
I think she's full of it. I don't believe she had no idea Shannan was pregnant.
I think she just didn't care.
She's just as much a decietful,conniving liar as CW.
She certainly has zero sympathy for Shannan,and her concern for Bella,CeCe,and Nico rings hollow.
This is why people don't like her.
Not so much because she was the other woman.
Her lying deceitfulness, and cold disregard for the victims.

 

[SeesSeas]

NK may be in Witness Protection; or she might not be in Witness Protection. We will probably never know for sure.
The eligibility process for NK in the WITNESS SECURITY PROGRAM could have been started weeks or months prior to CW's guilty plea on November 6.

Excerpt:
A witness may be considered for acceptance into the Witness Security Program if they are an essential witness in a specific case of the following types:
Any State offense. . .
. . . that may subject the witness to retaliation by violence or threats of violence;

9-21.000 - Witness Security
[...]
9-21.100 - ELIGIBILITY FOR THE WITNESS SECURITY PROGRAM
A witness may be considered for acceptance into the Witness Security Program if they are an essential witness in a specific case of the following types:

1. Any offense defined in Title 18, United States Code, Section 1961(1) (organized crime and racketeering);
2. Any drug trafficking offense described in Title 21, United States Code;
3. Any other serious Federal felony for which a witness may provide testimony that may subject the witness to retaliation by violence or threats of violence;
4. Any State offense that is similar in nature to those set forth above; and
5. Certain civil and administrative proceedings in which testimony given by a witness may place the safety of that witness in jeopardy.

In order to facilitate the processing of a request by a government attorney for a witness's acceptance into the Witness Security Program, OEO's Witness Security Unit has designed an application form that requests the specific information needed to support the request. This form requires a summarization of the testimony to be provided by the witness and other information evidencing the witness's cooperation, the threat to the witness, and any risk the witness may pose if relocated to a new community. . .
[...]

 

[Thepoet]

NK may be in Witness Protection; or she might not be in Witness Protection. We will probably never know for sure.
The eligibility process for NK in the WITNESS SECURITY PROGRAM could have been started weeks or months prior to CW's guilty plea on November 6.

Excerpt:
A witness may be considered for acceptance into the Witness Security Program if they are an essential witness in a specific case of the following types:
Any State offense. . .
. . . that may subject the witness to retaliation by violence or threats of violence;

9-21.000 - Witness Security
[...]
9-21.100 - ELIGIBILITY FOR THE WITNESS SECURITY PROGRAM
A witness may be considered for acceptance into the Witness Security Program if they are an essential witness in a specific case of the following types:

1. Any offense defined in Title 18, United States Code, Section 1961(1) (organized crime and racketeering);
2. Any drug trafficking offense described in Title 21, United States Code;
3. Any other serious Federal felony for which a witness may provide testimony that may subject the witness to retaliation by violence or threats of violence;
4. Any State offense that is similar in nature to those set forth above; and
5. Certain civil and administrative proceedings in which testimony given by a witness may place the safety of that witness in jeopardy.

In order to facilitate the processing of a request by a government attorney for a witness's acceptance into the Witness Security Program, OEO's Witness Security Unit has designed an application form that requests the specific information needed to support the request. This form requires a summarization of the testimony to be provided by the witness and other information evidencing the witness's cooperation, the threat to the witness, and any risk the witness may pose if relocated to a new community. . .
[...]

I've done some research and given it a great deal of thought and I don't believe NK is in Witness Protection. First, she doesn't seem to qualify. As someone here said; "Internet bullying isn't grounds for protection." Second, the initial story was on [link removed] and the other stories all seemed to be taken from the Inquisitr story, so I'm not sure of the validity of the report. Finally, with CW LWOP, what threat exists that would justify protection? Is it possible NK leaked this story herself, to take the heat off and give herself some peace? Anything is possible.

 

[Nikynoo]

I read that NK's phone pinged near CW's house on Monday morning. Has anyone figured that one out? Or does it go under "things NK forgot about"?

IIRC it was established that the ping from Frederick was on her way to work. If you look on google maps you will be able to see that her route to work involved driving through or near to Frederick.

 

[Nikynoo]

NK may be in Witness Protection; or she might not be in Witness Protection. We will probably never know for sure.
The eligibility process for NK in the WITNESS SECURITY PROGRAM could have been started weeks or months prior to CW's guilty plea on November 6.

Excerpt:
A witness may be considered for acceptance into the Witness Security Program if they are an essential witness in a specific case of the following types:
Any State offense. . .
. . . that may subject the witness to retaliation by violence or threats of violence;

9-21.000 - Witness Security
[...]
9-21.100 - ELIGIBILITY FOR THE WITNESS SECURITY PROGRAM
A witness may be considered for acceptance into the Witness Security Program if they are an essential witness in a specific case of the following types:

1. Any offense defined in Title 18, United States Code, Section 1961(1) (organized crime and racketeering);
2. Any drug trafficking offense described in Title 21, United States Code;
3. Any other serious Federal felony for which a witness may provide testimony that may subject the witness to retaliation by violence or threats of violence;
4. Any State offense that is similar in nature to those set forth above; and
5. Certain civil and administrative proceedings in which testimony given by a witness may place the safety of that witness in jeopardy.

In order to facilitate the processing of a request by a government attorney for a witness's acceptance into the Witness Security Program, OEO's Witness Security Unit has designed an application form that requests the specific information needed to support the request. This form requires a summarization of the testimony to be provided by the witness and other information evidencing the witness's cooperation, the threat to the witness, and any risk the witness may pose if relocated to a new community. . .
[...]

I really, really do not think NK is in witness protection. She isn't eligible and I dont think she would have been a compelling witness.