GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #69

[NuttMegg]

I don’t think very highly of his parents, but I don’t think that even they will be able to justify his killing of his wife (even if they hated her) & the children- I think they will try to block it out of their mind.

Just so they quit publicly saying "What happened to Christopher? Shan'ann, that's what!!"

 

[TridentBlu]

To me it's simple- they appeared to be the perfect family. An attractive couple. Beautiful kids. Huge, gorgeous house. Trips. Family fun. Positive portrayal on social media.

They seemed to have what most people want. They had it all.

There was not one sign that something this horrific could happen. As a few had said, there was nothing in CW's aspect to indicate he was capable of this.

This kind of thing sends shivers down everyone's backs. Can it happen to me? Could I be sleeping with the enemy? People are desperate for information that they can use to prove it can't be them or to provide warning signs.

I totally agree that this is what made me so perplexed and interested in this case. They appeared the perfect family. Even SW's parents who lived with them over a year did not see anything amiss. The close friend who came out from Hawaii and stayed a month (or two?) didn't notice anything. However, the neighbor said he heard them fighting and that "he'd get crazy." I have been hoping that LE would release an interview with the neighbor. Probe more into what he meant and what he had heard. We don't have anything further on that, right?

 

[bonjoviblonde]

but wouldn't he be hurting both sets of grand parents and other close family members too?

I respectfully disagree. They are grandparents no matter what people think of them and they did love those girls.

Respectfully, you will excuse me when I say it sure doesn’t seem like they “love those girls”. The way they have behaved is disgusting so it’s been really hard for most people to have sympathy for them. You can still love your son and not behave like a complete bleep.

 

[NuttMegg]

Yes, I don't think a four year old would say, "Please do not do to me what you did to Cece," yet this is what's been quoted over and over again.
Maybe that's the way CW said it. It's really hard to know if anything he says is true. Investigators knew right away he was lying before and it was easy for us to tell for ourselves that he was lying. It was just so obvious.
So if LE believes some of the things he said during that 4 or 5 hour interview are true I am very interested to hear what they have to say. Imo

She probably said "Don't do that to me Daddy! What you did to Cece!" IE some version of what 4 year olds would say in utter terror after seeing their sister murdered. She was old enough to know Cece died, she saw the demented face of her father while he did it right in front of her.
Those words that she supposedly said came word of mouth from the agents to Sandy Rzucek, IIRC Sandy had not yet seen the report. She, in total grief, told the lawyer. The lawyer said what he thought he heard. Telephone game.
But same thing at the end. Daddy don't do that to me!

 

[Colorfuel]

So far I feel a little like a chump, because as it stands the story he’s telling doesn’t sit just right, and I thought it would be more straightforward than this. Hubris or wishful thinking on my part.

I predicted that it would be harder for him to lie about very basic facts like the order and manner of these murders, and easier to lie about anything to do with his state of mind, but now I’m not sure.

The reason is simply that when I try to animate these scenes in my mind based on what he’s added, I can’t make it come together. I don’t see how these purported events flow from what happened before and after, nor how they lead into each other within the murder narrative.

Not only are there logical ways to question what he says, it also lacks (for me) emotional resonance. Maybe the entire direct interview with CW will make things more clear, but right now my hackles are a bit raised. I’m concerned he’s even sicker and more manipulative than I thought, and I wasn’t sure that was possible.

 

[LittleFleurDeLys]

I'm getting chills just thinking about it, but remember the eerie photo of the doll wrapped in a white sheet that CW sent to Shannann?
SEE IT: Chris Watts sent unsettling photo of a doll covered by a sheet to Shannan Watts days before her murder — and his father tried to use photo to claim murdered pregnant mom ‘planned’ killings

Well after listening to Dr Phil it seems this was all part of his sick, evil plan. He wrapped Shanann's dead body in that white sheet and transported it to the burial site, and then proceeded to murder his two toddlers.

Its as if he was taunting Shanann by sending that photo, laughing to himself that she was going to end up like that doll because he wanted her dead. Just as he silently smirked and chuckled on the porch in his tv interviews about how "they"/"she" were just GONE.

How can ANYONE doubt that this was cold-blooded premeditation, NOT a crime of passion?

moo

Never forget... lovely NK wanted "many firsts" with him. It was a problem to her, that he had already kids, that he was already married. He wanted to please her, I'm sure. He wanted a new life and his old one needed to be undone, to be erased, to be free without any boundaries. Shannan was pregnant, feeling unwell, returned early in the morning at 2 am after a delayed flight! I just can not imagine, having an argument, having sex, falling asleep to have the next argument in this short period of time under all of this circumstances.

But I can clearly see what he wanted to make the public to believe. That it all happend in the heat of the moment, that he panicked, that he never intended to kill his little girls. But as I stated in my previos posting, his entire behavior after this crime speaks volumes. He looked rested, he referred to his allegedly beloved daughters as "those kids" - he could eat pizza in front of their picture. After the last meal they had was also pizza! Come on... he never felt any love towards them.

And the reason why he now is seeking "god" or whatever, is that he probably as well is going through hell right now, because he knows, he will be locked in jail until he dies. He knows that he is known for his actions worldwide! His life is over as well. If he had gotten away with this crime, I really doubt that he would be seeking out for god and for forgiveness right now. Rather enjoying his new live, not much thinking of his "old family" again, until he would have met the next woman and NK needed to be out of the way. Hell, she was a lucky girl...

 

[Misy]

I’m so far behind. This thread is moving like lightning speed again. Sorry if this has already been suggested but regarding the blankets (why weren’t they found anywhere) remember he loaded a gas can in the truck didn’t he? Is cervi319 large enough where no one would be likely to find remnants of a small “campfire”. ?


Also does anyone have a link to dr Phil part 1. Did it air yesterday? Argggg I can only find snippets and previews. Tia!

 

[violet101]

I’m so far behind. This thread is moving like lightning speed again. Sorry if this has already been suggested but regarding the blankets (why weren’t they found anywhere) remember he loaded a gas can in the truck didn’t he? Is cervi319 large enough where no one would be likely to find remnants of a small “campfire”. ?


Also does anyone have a link to dr Phil part 1. Did it air yesterday? Argggg I can only find snippets and previews. Tia!

Didn’t he stop at a construction site that day? I wonder if he threw things away there.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

So far I feel a little like a chump, because as it stands the story he’s telling doesn’t sit just right, and I thought it would be more straightforward than this. Hubris or wishful thinking on my part.

I predicted that it would be harder for him to lie about very basic facts like the order and manner of these murders, and easier to lie about anything to do with his state of mind, but now I’m not sure.

The reason is simply that when I try to animate these scenes in my mind based on what he’s added, I can’t make it come together. I don’t see how these purported events flow from what happened before and after, nor how they lead into each other within the murder narrative.

Not only are there logical ways to question what he says, it also lacks (for me) emotional resonance. Maybe the entire direct interview with CW will make things more clear, but right now my hackles are a bit raised. I’m concerned he’s even sicker and more manipulative than I thought, and I wasn’t sure that was possible.

I'm sure we are all going to be over that 5-hour interview. What were they looking for and what were they asking and what was said. There's going to be so much. I do hope I do hope I do hope the moderator start a new thread once the interview is released in its entirety so there is a starting point for conversation to find.

 

[molly1255]

RIGHT, I agree. He took off one mask and there is another underneath.

I don't believe that he killed his wife because she 'said she was taking my kids away.'

First of all, he knew she couldn't take them away just because he had an affair. So that would not be a logical reaction to a false threat like that.

But besides that, he obviously didnt want those sweet babies anyway. So that is not why he killed them. That is just his 'victim' mask, below the other one. JMO

I think he killed them because he is a classic family annihilator and he was done with them. Didnt want to be bothered with them, nor responsible for them etc.

IIRC, in his interrogation, Coder asked him a separation from Shanann was going to work and I am pretty sure that CW replied that Colorado is a 50/50 state.

 

[NuttMegg]

I think CW panicked at the thought of killing Cece and Bella in his house. His adrenaline and cortisol levels were sky high, especially after Bella saw him hurting her mommy. She probably cried and begged him not to because she knew something was horribly wrong.

He had likely thought about killing the toddlers and planned their deaths but when it came to the crux he froze for a short while. It was not as easy as he imagined. He used the driving time to get rid of Shanann's body at the oil site to think about how to dispose of C&B.
moo

I'm partly there. He was futilely drawing out time. According to what was said on the infamous "podcast" he was trying to figure out how not to kill them, to let them live. That may be in the report. (Not saying I believe he meant that, only that he may have said that).
The hardest part of this case for me has been accepting that someone would easily do what is to me incomprehensible. Which is why I always had a hard time with pre-meditation (killing her, yes, killing them, no). I've noticed that posters with legal backgrounds, with professional social work backgrounds, true crime followers, have no problem whatsoever accepting that he would do the worst. Pre-meditated slaughter of one's own children.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I’m so far behind. This thread is moving like lightning speed again. Sorry if this has already been suggested but regarding the blankets (why weren’t they found anywhere) remember he loaded a gas can in the truck didn’t he? Is cervi319 large enough where no one would be likely to find remnants of a small “campfire”. ?


Also does anyone have a link to dr Phil part 1. Did it air yesterday? Argggg I can only find snippets and previews. Tia!

Check out the media thread. It is there in case nobody bumps it for you right now.

The media thread, I find to be a great point when I have been away from a case for a while to catch up. You can subscribe to it also so it comes front page to the top of your list for unread subscribed threads.


MEDIA, MAPS & TIMELINES - NO DISCUSSION - - Shanann Watts (34, dec.), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4

 

[Gardenista]

Just saw an image of the email sent to people who made a CORA request. Here is info

Release will be at 3/7 at 8am MST
Records will include:
2 audio files (appx 5 hours total)
2 images of CW
1 CBI report
Letter from Executive Director of Colorado Dept of Public Safety

 

[Colorfuel]

Respectfully, you will excuse me when I say it sure doesn’t seem like they “love those girls”. The way they have behaved is disgusting so it’s been really hard for most people to have sympathy for them. You can still love your son and not behave like a complete bleep.

I don’t know exactly what the family dynamic is there, but it’s obviously something on the order of intergenerational narcissism. In that light, I would offer that love / don’t love is not going to be black and white.

Love is conditional when narcissism is too strong. It ime can look and feel like love as long as the right conditions are met, but when the narcissist’s fragile ego is threatened, it simply turns off as it is superseded by some kind of survival mechanism.

As Shakespeare wrote, “love is not love which alters when it alteration finds.” I think most of us will say this conditional love is not proper love. Having received that kind of love, I would say what’s so difficult about it is how hard it can be to tell the difference—until it’s too late.

 

[kaykay543]

Bella begging for her life, doesn’t make him look any better, likely even in his own mind.

If he was going for that angle, he would have left that part out.

I didn't say she didn't beg for her life. I feel that part is true (except for the wording). There is always a bit of truth sprinkled in. But IMO it was at home not Cervi. Taking those girls to Cervi would have a HUGE risk. IMO CW is not brave enough to take such a huge risk of someone seeing the girls in the truck/and or at Cervi. He is a coward.

His mind is not like ours. What CW says and does will never make sense because hes not a normal human. Hes a shell with no soul.

I don't believe for one minute that they fought, made up, had sex, fought again and then he killed her. Just another CW lie.

It amazes me that people are so willing to believe this version knowing hes a malignant narcissist pathological liar. I go back to what the DA said about not making him tell them what happened; because it would all be a lie. It still is a lie.

The only good of this is that SW parents feel better that he finally said he killed the girls.

 

[PommyMommy]

I’m so far behind. This thread is moving like lightning speed again. Sorry if this has already been suggested but regarding the blankets (why weren’t they found anywhere) remember he loaded a gas can in the truck didn’t he? Is cervi319 large enough where no one would be likely to find remnants of a small “campfire”. ?


Also does anyone have a link to dr Phil part 1. Did it air yesterday? Argggg I can only find snippets and previews. Tia!

 

[NuttMegg]

Just saw an image of the email sent to people who made a CORA request. Here is info

Release will be at 3/7 at 8am MST
Records will include:
2 audio files (appx 5 hours total)
2 images of CW
1 CBI report
Letter from Executive Director of Colorado Dept of Public Safety

Hmm. So the lengthy redacted report is the one from CBI? I don't see any transcript of the audios.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Just so they quit publicly saying "What happened to Christopher? Shan'ann, that's what!!"

Yes,and shut up about how awful prison will be for Chris,and how he found God. They need to just shut it period.

 

[Colorfuel]

At what point in his “passionate, unpremeditated” state do we think he hid Shanann’s cell phone?

 

[Inthedetails]

I totally agree that this is what made me so perplexed and interested in this case. They appeared the perfect family. Even SW's parents who lived with them over a year did not see anything amiss. The close friend who came out from Hawaii and stayed a month (or two?) didn't notice anything. However, the neighbor said he heard them fighting and that "he'd get crazy." I have been hoping that LE would release an interview with the neighbor. Probe more into what he meant and what he had heard. We don't have anything further on that, right?

I think there are a few reasons why this case captured such a big interest:

* Attractive family and life - they look like people who "have it all."

* Videos! We have so much footage to watch. And whether you like all the videos or not, it's easy to feel like you know these people. All four of them have such distinct personalities that are revealed in the videos. It's intriguing to watch them and look for clues to what was brewing. The videos are there to return to after learning new information about the family and the case. The videos bring smiles, frustration, perhaps dislike. They also give a complete sense of the unfairness of what SW and the girls went through.

* Interviews. Interviews are not unique to this case, but CW's porch interviewers were such red flags to crime followers that is intriguing to find out how and when he will be caught in lies.

* Oil tanks! It's horrific where he deposited the girls and the detail, frankly, makes the case stand out from others. When you hear about the oil tanks, it pulls you in to learn more. When I first heard oil tanks, I assumed something like a barrel and when I saw what the tanks actually looked like, it was all the more shocking. Shocking cases get attention.

* One of the first statements I recall about the case is that he said his DNA would not be found on them (on their necks if I recall correctly?). Well, it's tempting to follow the case to see if that will in fact be proven true and to find out why he would say that.

* Cast of characters. The case has interesting characters from the friend who came looking for her (we all admire her!) to unkind in-laws (boo!). Oh, and people coming forward claiming to be CW's lovers. The amazing interrogator. On and on.

* Documents! I've never followed a case with a document drop like this one. It's easy to feel involved with the case to be able to read the documents. And it's interesting to discuss with others.

* The "reveal" about the Other Woman. That's not particularly unique and a bit predictable, but it keeps the interest up.

* Fast pace. This case moved quickly. And with the plea deal, there was no wait for a trial.

The case definitely has just about everything to keep up interest. Mostly, I think it's SW's videos. The public got to know the family.

jmo