GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #69

[Best of What's Around]

Are going to get audio, video or transcripts?

It's been reported that it will be 2 audio files totaling about 5 hours and a CBI report, among a couple other less important things. No video.

 

[kay74]

People put themselves into their own personal rages.

I'll never accept blame for putting someone else into a rage, it's their brain, not mine.

Do you really think, that because a woman is smaller, pregnant, whatever, that she should stop talking in case some guy might go into a rage and kill her? Please.

Huh? Why do comments get construed the wrong way? All I asked is what did Shannon say that put him in a rage? OK? It was mentioned awhile back and I did not catch it and wanted to know what the words were. GEEZ

 

[Best of What's Around]

If I am right it's 4 pm here in Germany and 3 pm in UK tomorrow.

It has been widely reported that it is supposed to drop at 8 am MST - which is 10 am EST here in the US.

 

[simplymadness]

Are going to get audio, video or transcripts?

Only audio and transcripts, I think. 10am EST, I believe via CORA request only. At least this is how I'm understanding it.

 

[kiwilaura]

I am not sure I am buying the timeline. It sounds like he is making it sound like he killed Shanann after she threatened that he wouldn't be able to see the kids.

Tbh that's what I thought might have happened right back at the beginning.

HOWEVER, CW's text to the coworker telling him he could manage Cervi by himself absolutely and firmly makes me feel that it was all pre-planned.

Which is why I can not trust what he is saying now. It doesn't fit with other known facts and I think only serves as an opportunity for CW to build further rage against Shanann from his posse, or it is a way he is still trying to reduce his culbability and garner sympathy.

 

[kay74]

Only audio and transcripts, I think. 10am EST, I believe via CORA request only. At least this is how I'm understanding it.

I would like to see the transcript.

 

[Artis]

I think there's truth in there. Like many liars the tith is often mixed in with the lie. Bella likely begged him in some way. But I'm with Stella a little. I can never be totally certain that he's finally revealing all, accurately. Because he's a liar. And most liars who eventually confess, continue with some of the lies.

An example is Christian Longo. He initially blamed and intruder and then also blamed his wife saying she killed one of the kids so he killed her and the others.

He finally confessed to all the killings but the details remained questionable and self serving. Ahh as his wife didn't seem terrorized or surprised and "relaxed into it" as he strangled her.
Christian Longo Murders - Death Row Execution Policy

Suuuure.

These are people but they're not like you or me. They minds work differently. They won't make sense to us.

(On an unrelated note, the man who wrote the above-linked article, whose identity Longo stole, creeps me out. He's obsessed with Longo and much too sympathetic. I question what thoughts he's had about his own family, frankly.

Reminds me a tiny bit of Stephen King and his partial motivation for his family annihilator thriller, The Shining. How he said:

"Sometimes you confess. You always hide what you're confessing to. That's one of the reasons why you make up the story. When I wrote The Shining, for instance, the protagonist of The Shining is a man who has broken his son's arm, who has a history of child beating, who is beaten himself. And as a young father with two children, I was horrified by my occasional feelings of real antagonism toward my children. Won't you ever stop? Won't you ever go to bed? And time has given me the idea that probably there are a lot of young fathers and young mothers both who feel very angry, who have angry feelings toward their children. But as somebody who has been raised with the idea that father knows best and Ward Cleaver on 'Leave it to Beaver,' and all this stuff, I would think to myself, Oh, if he doesn't shut up, if he doesn't shut up... So when I wrote this book I wrote a lot of that down and tried to get it out of my system, but it was also a confession. Yes, there are times when I felt very angry toward my children and have even felt as though I could hurt them. Well, my kids are older now. Naomi is fifteen and Joey is thirteen and Owen is eight, and they're all super kids, and I don't think I've laid a hand on one of my kids in probably seven years, but there was a time..."
The Shining (novel) - Wikipedia)

Thanks for that link. Never heard of that case and how utterly bizarre. Sort of some karmic tie between those two.

Stephen King has always given me the creeps and I think he is a creep. I always wondered about people who can write stuff like that.

These are people but they're not like you or me. They minds work differently. They won't make sense to us.

^^THIS

Sam Vaknin, the infamous narc, diagnosed as a psychopath, prolific writer and YTber, even claims he's not human. That would require a working definition of "human" but I get what he's saying. It was Vaknin who a little girl looked at and said, "You're not a person, you're a scanning machine"! He's also the subject of "I, Psychopath".

Whether these are humans or not is up for debate but they appear human and that's what's important for the rest of us. Wolves in sheep's clothing.

 

[Gardenista]

I'm sorry if this has been asked and answered already...

Does anyone have a link or an idea where to get a link to tomorrow's audio release? I would like to hit "Go" as soon as it is dropped.

I appreciate everyone at Websleuths so much! The variety of backgrounds and knowledge of everyone that comes together here is priceless. Thank you!

Are you in any of the Watts FB groups? Many of them filed CORA requests and IMO, that's going to be the fastest way to get the info. The downside is we won't be able to discuss it here until it is released by MSM.

 

[mickey2942]

Huh? Why do comments get construed the wrong way? All I asked is what did Shannon say that put him in a rage? OK? It was mentioned awhile back and I did not catch it and wanted to know what the words were. GEEZ

We really don't know. But having lived with an emotional abuser, almost anything that you say, or don't say, do, or don't do, sets them off into a rage. Apparently, CW states he killed SW and the children because SW said she wouldn't let him see the kids. This made him kill her in a fit of rage.

Probably all made up crap. Who believes a word that CW says?!

 

[kay74]

When a man tells his wife he is having an affair and he wants a divorce and she says you'll never see your kids, a normal response from a husband would be "Fine" and then get up and leave. Leave the house. Not kill her! What did he expect her to say "okay go to your lover and we'll share custody." He said the worse thing ever to her.

 

[they'll get you]

Can you provide the link? I want to read it.

What Drives a Man to Kill His Own Family? Inside the Psychology of Family Annihilators
The Christopher Watts case is a chilling reminder of just how little we can ever truly know about our spouses
Christopher Watts Murder Case: What Drives a Man to Kill His Family? – Rolling Stone

 

[Artis]

Somehow the first time around on the body cam video of CW leading LE through the house I missed (or don’t recall) his comment about the girls making a mess with Vaseline and soap everywhere - it seemed like maybe he was annoyed by this (of course he could’ve been rattled about LE in the house). He usually bathed the girls, right?

Yeah and he followed that with "that was fun", meaning it wasn't. Probably thought how he was glad he didn't have to deal with that anymore.

 

[Pasasana]

I wonder if CW is telling this horrible death scenario to get even with his wife's parents humiliating him at the sentencing..."you carried them out of the house like garbage". And CW might be trying to call his wife's parents liars ("I didn't carry them all out like garbage, the kids were alive"). Chris likes to do interviews and seems to get some sort of "high" by severely distorting the truth and probably relishes the fact that he knows what happened and no one else knows. This is some sort of sick "power" he holds on to.

And he might have been intentionally trying to "push his wife's buttons" by using a credit card for the dinner with his mistress, and admitting he was having an affair. The angrier he got his wife, the easier it is to kill her.

I stumbled over a video last night that said exactly that. That the parents were liars for saying that. I hit the thumbs down and ran away.

 

[mickey2942]

What Drives a Man to Kill His Own Family? Inside the Psychology of Family Annihilators
The Christopher Watts case is a chilling reminder of just how little we can ever truly know about our spouses
Christopher Watts Murder Case: What Drives a Man to Kill His Family? – Rolling Stone

I do not buy for one second that this was not premeditated murder, I believe that the children were dead by the time SW came home.

 

[MsGazette]

I’m sure this has been posted with a million other articles but I figured I would post just in case. It does mention that he smothered the girls at the oil site, which has been a subject of discussion. Whether it’s the truth, I don’t think we’ll ever know 100%. I just have this echo in my mind of the investigator asking CW straight out if he put the girls in the tank alive and he was like, “no, oh God no.” It’s chilling, like putting the babies in there wasn’t awful enough. He is one messed up monster.

Chris Watts' 4-Year-Old Daughter Pleaded for Her Life After Watching Him Kill Sister: Lawyer

 

[Artis]

I truly believe that he planned to kill them all along.

I suppose it is possible that he wasn’t initially thinking about killing them, but perhaps he only thinks he wasn’t thinking about killing them.

I don’t think he seriously entertained allowing them to live. His plan hinged on them joining their mother.

Can’t have a new life with the kids still living, and he couldn’t have freedom either.

Yep. One they were all gone in NC, he made up his mind. He didn't want them back and it was out with the old and in with the new. Simple as that.

 

[Artis]

I believe he thought he loved those girls, if that makes sense.

But I don't believe he ever could truly love anybody except maybe himself, and his own selfish wants and needs.

He is truly incapable of love IMO

He played the role to the hilt so he probably did think he "loved" them. All he could is mimic what he thought love was supposed to look like (Shanann). Remember how he Googled (re: NK) how he was supposed to feel if someone told him they loved him?

 

[MassGuy]

I respectfully disagree. They are grandparents no matter what people think of them and they did love those girls.

True. If I ignore the discovery document, ignore what they said on national television, ignore the lies, ignore the victim bashing, ignore every single thing they have said or done, then yes.

I can’t though.

Shanann suffered in life, and is still paying the price in death.

She may not be here to pay that price, but her family sure as hell is.

Because of them.

Vile people.

 

[Pasasana]

If he had said he killed them at home that would have spawned even more of the exMRS type of SW bashing (even NOW they are still at it, permitting vile new comments that will remain. what, forever?) . (He flew off the handle in rage, that horrid woman 1) questioned his manhood 2) said he couldn't have the kids 50% of the time 3) called him a liar, a cheat, 4) she fed him chemicals thru patches, 5) whatever, it was her fault she got herself killed, because, well, FB videos.

I think if he killed them at home there would have been a lot of dog evidence, we just didn't see enough evidence.
Taking them to Cervi took very little extra time, if any, and spread the evidence out to hide the trail. Except for burying her the way he did, oops. (Another reason I don't really buy long-planned pre-meditation, it would not have been hard for him to dig an adequate grave earlier, cover it up with brush, at least make it softer to dig in).

I think he was completely honest when he told Coder and Lee that only "minutes" elapsed from killing SW to getting her to the truck. Note at that time they weren't asking him about the kids.

It astounds me that they will harp about her job, but never his. Seems to me that participating in fracking is a whole lot worse than vitamin patches.

 

[Psychofcrime]

We thought that before. But going through the evidence I don't think child support or spousal support was an issue. He would've had a lot of time with them and his wife made more than he did.

It seems evident he was obsessed with NK. He lied to her as we know, stating that he was at the tail end of a divorce when in fact his recently pregnant wife didn't even know they were separated.

He told NK he was taking her to Aspen but his wife thought she was going on that trip.

His wife was back in town after weeks and a weekend gone. He now couldn't pretend anymore that he was at the end of a divorce.

I don't think he wanted to deal with Shanann and all their friends' reaction to him leaving his pregnant wife for an affair. I don't think he could face that.

NK did not want a man who had already had children. She wanted that to be a new experience for her and whoever she ended up with. Although she denies it I think she ultimately made that clear to CW.

He was also desperate to make sure she didn't find out his wife was 15 weeks pregnant because she already didn't want his born kids. And that would mean he either got his wife pregnant just before they began an affair or just after. Either or which is pretty gross.

I think she would've left had she known that. And he was terrified of that.

This was a man obsessed and determined.

Totally agree.
CW was a complete coward.
He wanted the family gone but darn the luck, he had to kill them to get rid of them.
Of course he didn't argue, make up and have sex, and argue again. He waited until he didn't have to confront her to kill her.
The trip with the girls to the oil tanks, if it happened at all, was only him trying to get the balls up to do what he had planned.
Afterwards he was pumped. Totally pumped up at having succeeded. That explains his actions when he first got back to house. That explains his attitude on the porch interviews. He was flying high, inwardly proud of himself.
He was a complete coward who cracked quickly under LE's pressure.
Coward, wuss, weakling....