GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[ab01]

Ok, I missed that about the loving, thanks. So he thought NK “was true”? Sigh. “Musings on Middle School Love”, by Chris Watts (age 34).

Right- thank you- it was the bottom door that had all the bolts. 6 or 8 bolts on the top door... and he said he doesn’t know what he was thinking when he put Bella in a separate tank. That is really weird that he would have taken the time to unbolt another opening.

JMO

Replying to your first part:


I think CW is incapable of love. My opinion he was confusing Lust with NK to what he thought love was. Moo

 

[Best of What's Around]

But I will say one thing about this statement, it shows in his own words about what kind of person SR was. You wouldn’t say that if you had rage and hate against her. He’s basically admitting that he didn’t think SR deserved any of this. Heck she’s such a good person, She was probably forgiving me as I did the worst thing imaginable to her. Moo

I hope the Shanann bashers can read btwn the lines as well!

Sadly, they can't. But they have issues. Seriously.

 

[Best of What's Around]

Replying to your first part:


I think CW is incapable of love. My opinion he was confusing Lust with NK to what he thought love was. Moo

Good point. It would have been interesting if they had asked him about looking up what it feels like when someone says I love you.

 

[MJPeony]

I know I'm responding to my own post, but to add, I think he eventually would have done this, but perhaps inwas bored


In terms of the bolts, I believe this is further proof of premeditation. It was something he planned to do with them, in advance, IMO.

If it was an on-the-spot decision, I believe he would have put them in the same tank, just to get it over with more quickly.

Yes, I agree. Nothing he did makes sense but opening up another hatch was needless effort. He was clearly strapped for time. He must have had them open already.

I’d be so interested in when the last time his work truck was tracked to that site (before that morning). I don’t remember seeing if that was researched.

 

[molly1255]

Yes, I agree. Nothing he did makes sense but opening up another hatch was needless effort. He was clearly strapped for time. He must have had them open already.

I’d be so interested in when the last time his work truck was tracked to that site (before that morning). I don’t remember seeing if that was researched.

My guess is LE got the history log that showed any trips his truck made to Cervi 319 as well as the amount of time he was at that site. IIRC, in his interview, he stated he buried Shanann before he killed the girls, but I also recall seeing that wasn't true and the last thing he did was bury Shanann?

It that is the case, it is possible he ran into a stubborn bolt or two on those thief hatches, and this slowed him down, and he didn't have the time to do something else with Shanann's body, perhaps involving the gas can. IDK.

 

[nwmouse]

Yes, he knew ahead of time the bodies of his children would fit through those 8 inch openings. Even others who were familiar with the size of the holes couldn't believe they would fit. Imo

Yep. He also knew what crude oil would do to their little bodies. I participated in a crude oil clean up once, washing it off birds with dish-washing liquid.

It was horrific and I will never forget what it did to the animals that died --and those who succumbed even after we tried cleaning them because it was too late.

Crude destroys and Watts knew that. He thought he could outwit LE by hiding the girls in those tanks and that their bodies would be degraded so they couldn't find a COD. His evil is staggering - those girls loved him and he destroyed them. The skin slipped off their fingers during the autopsy.

I truly hope he has a horrible life behind bars in WI. There is no excuse for what he did because there was an easier alternative. He just needed to file for divorce, pay alimony and child support and carry on with his life. Many couples decide to divorce and do that. Its not as if he had no choice. There is zero justification for his actions.

moo

 

[Best of What's Around]

My guess is LE got the history log that showed any trips his truck made to Cervi 319 as well as the amount of time he was at that site. IIRC, in his interview, he stated he buried Shanann before he killed the girls, but I also recall seeing that wasn't true and the last thing he did was bury Shanann?

It that is the case, it is possible he ran into a stubborn bolt or two on those thief hatches, and this slowed him down, and he didn't have the time to do something else with Shanann's body, perhaps involving the gas can. IDK.

No, it wasn't clear but he did say he buried SW after the girls. The confusion came because he said he first took her out and put her out somewhere on the site.

 

[nwmouse]

CW is very lucky he didn't live in Colorado in the 1800's. He would have probably had a maximum of two days to live from the time his sorry a** was thrown in a county jail for murdering his pregnant wife and little girls.

Justice would likely have been served up frontier style, with an unknown group of men taking him from the jail during the middle of the night and the sheriff never bothering to search for the group of unknown men. Done.

I think Frontier Justice is sometimes justified.

Especially when innocent children, women and animals are the victims.

moo

 

[Charlot123]

Oh hell yes! If it wasn't NK, I sincerely believe it WOULD have been someone else.

With his new, buff image he was no longer interested in Shanann or his children. He wanted new adventures and experiences.

CW was transforming into what I call Francis Dolarhyde in Red Dragon. He craved a new life for his "improved" (in his mind) Chris Watts.

I think he always had a few screws loose and as he matured his arrested development became more apparent.

He mimics others as he doesn't have a true sense of "self". He's a shell of a human without any substance.

We learned a few truthful insights into the real CW from his interview:

a) He's a liar who believes his own lies.

b) He learned to tell very believable lies since he was a child when he told his school teacher that he spent a vacation in Asia and his lies were believed.

b) He's scared of being alone. When Shanann was away he stayed with NK.

c) When he committed the murders he stayed at the neighbor's house overnight eating pizza and watching sports on TV as he was "afraid" of going back to the ghost house. (This rings true).

d) He was deeply affected by being in solitary during his jailing in CO and felt better after being transferred to WI so he could mingle with other inmates (until he gets hurt).

I think he's going to be in for a rude awakening in his new WI prison. It houses some of the worst offenders who will be only too willing to make a name for themselves or "gain respect" as they call it, in there. He is a reviled monster. Many of the inmates in there are not in for murdering their helpless toddlers. He's a marked man.

moo

I hope it does not sound callous, but I want him to be kept safe, and evaluated more, for one reason.

We have a high number of women being killed by their partners. Sooner or later, someone has to put together - not books, instructions- for women, how to stay alive in a relationship. Or when to run away, run for their lives?

This is when these odd, seemingly isolated, cases, family annihilators, men beating moms of their children by the bats, men drowning pregnant wives, all these horrible guys, their thinking, their family dynamics, their relationships, all will come in helpful and handy.

Maybe even - one day we'll be better at instructing the parents on what pitfalls to avoid in order not to raise future killers?
(I know it sounds naive).

But postfactum, we can find many holes in the canvas of CW's family life, but neither points to murder or family annihilation.

Likewise, with CW's parents. A dysfunctional family, but in so many ways, average. Nothing pointing to a murder there, either.

MOO - better to keep him alive.

 

[Seattle1]

Two things:

- Did Coder/Tammy ever ask CW if he loved SW? I very well may have missed it (4 plus hours....brain fatigue and I definitely don’t remember everything). And if so what did he say? I’d be curious to see what he would have said if the question was “Chris, did you love Shanann?” and it was left entirely open-ended.

- Someone please remind me where we landed with the hatch discussion way back when. Specifically, didn’t we conclude there were a lot of bolts that needed to have been opened for each hatch? Which would have taken some time? IIRC there were like 20 bolts or something? Or was that only the lower door?

Both the manway and thief hatch have several bolts, but CW used the thief hatch to dispose his babies in the tanks.

Since CW reportedly accessed the regular 8" opening, he didn't remove any bolts for access. Had he removed bolts and hatch gasket, the opening may have been up to about 10" diameter.

MOO

 

[Jessthinkin]

Yep he’s truly a narcissistic monster who only thinks about how things reflect on him. Hence she was probably forgiving me as I brutally strangled her. Makes me absolutely sick!

Me too! He probably thinks "She forgives me, so you should, too!"

 

[Charlot123]

I believe CW's only thought about the SW's ring was to remember to take them off of her finger because he was going to sell them.

I just recall there was a discussion between CW and NK about selling SW's rings. MOO

This discussion says a lot about NK. Hard as nails.

 

[nwmouse]

I hope it does not sound callous, but I want him to be kept safe, and evaluated more, for one reason.

We have a high number of women being killed by their partners. Sooner or later, someone has to put together - not books, instructions- for women, how to stay alive in a relationship. Or when to run away, run for their lives?

This is when these odd, seemingly isolated, cases, family annihilators, men beating moms of their children by the bats, men drowning pregnant wives, all these horrible guys, their thinking, their family dynamics, their relationships, all will come in helpful and handy.

Maybe even - one day we'll be better at instructing the parents on what pitfalls to avoid in order not to raise future killers?
(I know it sounds naive).

But postfactum, we can find many holes in the canvas of CW's family life, but neither points to murder or family annihilation.

Likewise, with CW's parents. A dysfunctional family, but in so many ways, average. Nothing pointing to a murder there, either.

MOO - better to keep him alive.

I think its very hard for a woman to understand when she is in real danger from a FA.
To me, its unfathomable that someone you love, trust, allow into your bed and let impregnate you, would murder you and their/your own children.

Laci Peterson may have noticed that SP was distant, not interested or involved that she was pregnant with his son Connor. She likely thought he was just adjusting.

Shanann had seen CW's reaction to Bella and Baby Cece's birth and he appeared happy. She had no reason to suspect he would murder her, his unborn son and the toddlers. He just didn't seem to be the type. I mean this guy stayed with her during her prep for colonoscopies -- a large degree of trust/transcending of boundaries was there. They shared the greatest intimacies and he earned her trust, sadly.

Kelsey B probably had an inkling that Patrick F was not quite right - she may have felt he was controlling and abusive which is why she moved away from him, but she likely had no inkling he'd resort to murdering her.

Same as Christian Longo, Jeffery McDonald etc.

I think the pregnant mothers knew that there was something wrong but it wasn't something they could define or put their fingers on. They likely dismissed these signs as anxiety or stress and tried to justify them.

IMHO, FA's are the hardest psychos to diagnose and define. The signs are vague and differ from person to person.

moo

 

[Charlot123]

[* snipped by me*]
Back to Chris, we will never know because it's not measurable, but it would be helpful to understand about future FA cases, how much of his condition was nature vs. nurture. Was it 80% environment and 20% the personality with which he was born. Or was it 50/50? Or 100/0? For instance the second Chris was born if he was handed to a mentally healthy set of parents to raise, would he have turned out the same way? I tend to think he would have turned out to be a more "normal", mentally healthy adult. It seems very apple, tree. Which is why those ex-MRS purple podcasters were/are so scary too in their gleeful, rabid support of Cindy & Ronnie Watts.

MOO.

I don't know what is nature and what nurture. My feeling would be, maybe 80% is nature, but due to neuroplasticity, a lot depends on the caregiver. If CW had a person like SW for the mother, raising him, he' have a high chance of growing into a person with normal awareness of his emotions.

 

[nwmouse]

This discussion says a lot about NK. Hard as nails.

It happens, sadly.

I've known women who go out of their way to seduce married men with kids. Even befriending the spouse of the man they want to take away.

It feeds their ego and makes them feel powerful.

UGH.

NK was one of those women, no matter how much she denies that CW "PROMISED" he was estranged from his "nasty" wife and toddlers.

A decent woman would run a mile.

It usually doesn't end well, though. Those guys are chronic cheaters and nothing is enough to mollify their pathetic egos.

moo

 

[nwmouse]

Replying to your first part:


I think CW is incapable of love. My opinion he was confusing Lust with NK to what he thought love was. Moo

Quite so.

Chris Watt's version of love is distorted and he doesn't know the true meaning.

He goes through the motions of what he "thinks" defines love, but he's just a puppet mimicking emotions because he has few other than his own ego.

Simply, there's little need to study him. He's just a straw man and will never be anything else.

moo

 

[NanZDrew]

Yes, I agree. Nothing he did makes sense but opening up another hatch was needless effort. He was clearly strapped for time. He must have had them open already.

I’d be so interested in when the last time his work truck was tracked to that site (before that morning). I don’t remember seeing if that was researched.

They had been out there on Friday.

 

[ab01]

Just for reference I believe this is the same type of opening that CW put the girls bodies in. No bolt removal necessary to open it.....MOO

 

[nells]

According to the transcript of the interview they did in Wisconsin, Coder, Tammy Lee, and the Frederick police guy had secret video recording, as well as audio. Would love to see the video of this...

 

[molly1255]

I think Frontier Justice is sometimes justified.

Especially when innocent children, women and animals are the victims.

moo

One of my passions is frontier crime in the 1800's. I find it fascinating and some of the crimes are a lot more complicated than I could have ever imagined.

People tended to have an "it is what it is" kind of attitude when it came to those who committed heinous crimes against others in the frontier. They didn't try to understand them and they didn't care about their reasons. They simply wanted them gone.