GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #71

[human]

There are people saying he wanted money on here and others saying money was not a motive different view points coming up with their ideas upon which they base their decision

 

[human]

This is typical with family annihilators. They kill in August so the school doesn't call after the kids don't show up for days and weeks with no explanation.

Many schools start in Aug like the Watts school

 

[NuttMegg]

I don't believe anyone has discussed this to establish a motive - that is not the intention here.

They lived beyond their means and didn't give each other enough time (like alot of other couples trying to make it through life). As I've said before, we will likely never know, but we can continue to discuss, hopefully, in a civil manner.

No, I don't see any point to discussing their childcare choices, don't you assume that they looked into the options and prices? Who cares. That's what the CW support site does, criticizes the type of cot the kids napped on, and so forth. When I was in school/day care at that age we drank some milk and napped on the rug. On the floor
Despite that, my Dad didn't murder my Mom.
Just so glad that no one thought they should get into my personal live to criticize what education I chose for the kids. It's not fair, but that's just my POV. Let her rest in peace, would be my POV.

 

[Nikynoo]

Not really. I don't have an opinion about which school their kids went to. For those who criticize the type of care and education they wanted for their kids, rest assured that like everyone else in the USA they would have chosen a different type of arrangement or cost if they had too. By the way, foreigners used to subsidized or free preK/child care often don't realize that kids in the USA generally don't even have that free public option at all. I would guess that 570 hours free sounds pretty good.

What the Watts choice of sending their kids to preschool or day care has to do with establishing motive is just about as valid as criticizing the type of dishes they used, the quality of his workout assemblage in the basement, how much a big couch costs, and so forth.

I am not criticising their choices either. I paid for my own childs education. One of the reasons, the (free) state schools did not provide wrap around care and the private schools did. It was expensive and we had to make sacrifices, but we could afford it. The alternative was to take a lesser skilled, lower paid job and work around state school hours. Both parents have options/obligations to fit their work around their children. It should not just fall to one parent - it is a partnership afterall. For example, I'm professionally skilled, have a higher earning potential than my husband, so it made more sense for me to have 1 full time job on a professional pay grade than 2 jobs on lower pay. Each couple has different priorities and relationship dynamics. There is no right or wrong way. They make it work whichever way they can.

 

[opalonyx]

Many schools start in Aug like the Watts school

Exactly. It arouses less suspicion to tell the school they are being disenrolled due to moving before school starts as opposed to during the school year. It's pretty odd for a parent to pull their kid out and change schools mid-year. Even military families don't typically do this, changes in post are usually assigned when school isn't in session.

 

[NuttMegg]

I am not criticising their choices either. I paid for my own childs education. One of the reasons, the (free) state schools did not provide wrap around care and the private schools did. It was expensive and we had to make sacrifices, but we could afford it. The alternative was to take a lesser skilled, lower paid job and work around state school hours. Both parents have options/obligations to fit their work around their children. It should not just fall to one parent - it is a partnership afterall. For example, I'm professionally skilled, have a higher earning potential than my husband, so it made more sense for me to have 1 full time job on a professional pay grade than 2 jobs on lower pay. Each couple has different priorities and relationship dynamics. There is no right or wrong way. They make it work whichever way they can.

That's right, the Watts made their own decisions too. But you were criticizing them for choosing PRIVATE schools, and we just don't have that public option for the most part in the USA.

So why criticize them at all, if you don't even know the choices available? My nephew in Texas pays an arm and a leg for his 3 kids for pre-school, he and his wife want the best for their kids so they both work and work hard for that foot in the door for their kids. And no public school is available free for children under 5.

 

[opalonyx]

I think it is apt to describe CW as lazy. After all, some suspect child support and alimony are part of the motive. Instead of taking the deadbeat dad route, or owning up to the situation like a good father would, he decided to kill 3 physically vulnerable people and dump them so he could forgo downsizing to an apartment and buy an Audi for himself.

ETA: also, CW was so financially strapped, he wanted to buy his mistress of 5 weeks some jewelry and take her on vacations rather than pay for a good school for his children.

 

[human]

Lots of people live beyond their means for a variety of reasons.It can lead to depression, crime such as embezzlement, divorce, adultry, addictions. Who knows what else.

But in a very few cases it leads to family annihilation.

The killers are not “normal” people. Charles Stuart was identified as a chameleon. Someone who has only a facade. Someone who has to observe how to be a person.

CW is like that , I feel.

He was able to get rid of his family like they were used tissues.

I think being considered sexy was a big thing for him.

Sex is probably one of the biggest things on earth as reproduction of the species is what drives life.

 

[NuttMegg]

Lots of people live beyond their means for a variety of reasons.It can lead to depression, crime such as embezzlement, divorce, adultry, addictions. Who knows what else.

But in a very few cases it leads to family annihilation.

The killers are not “normal” people. Charles Stuart was identified as a chameleon. Someone who has only a facade. Someone who has to observe how to be a person.

CW is like that , I feel.

He was able to get rid of his family like they were used tissues.

I think being considered sexy was a big thing for him.

Sex is probably one of the biggest things on earth as reproduction of the species is what drives life.

I think he was just the shell of a man, and I think "robot" is a good comparison, a robot but made of flesh and bones. He even communicated in song lyrics, after googling how to discuss love with another person. His notes to his mistress had bits of song lyrics, there was the whole thing with Battery, and he kept saying "She took my breath away" as though he had seen Top Gun a dozen times.
He did what he thought others wanted him to do, he got along, and was pleasantly surprised when NK pursued HIM, as he put it. Got along fine until the circuitry shorted out and he resorted to murder because he had no vocabulary to convey anything important to his wife.
There was no there there, even now he communicated with Lee and Coder with tidbits he could only have gotten from his family because we heard them before from that crew.
As I mentioned a few weeks ago, now that he is in prison with just a Bible, he is Mr. Bible, and that's his new identity.
No offense to truly religious people who follow the precepts of the bible.

 

[Nikynoo]

That's right, the Watts made their own decisions too. But you were criticizing them for choosing PRIVATE schools, and we just don't have that public option for the most part in the USA.

So why criticize them at all, if you don't even know the choices available? My nephew in Texas pays an arm and a leg for his 3 kids for pre-school, he and his wife want the best for their kids so they both work and work hard for that foot in the door for their kids. And no public school is available free for children under 5.

I was not criticising them for choosing private schools. I was criticising their choice on an affordability basis.
Totally two different things.
They could not afford to send their children to private school, could they?
There were more affordable options no?
These were financial changes that could have been done relatively quickly (certainly quicker than selling a house).

 

[NuttMegg]

I was not criticising them for choosing private schools. I was criticising their choice on an affordability basis.
Totally two different things.
They could not afford to send their children to private school, could they?
There were more affordable options no?
These were financial changes that could have been done relatively quickly (certainly quicker than selling a house).

Uh, yes you did criticize them for choosing PRIVATE school.

I disagree on the childcare point. The children did not need to go to private school (and BTW parents in the UK can chose private school also which they need to pay for). The fact is, they couldn't afford the school fees (hence the missed mortgage payments). I agree that downsizing was a sensible option, but so too was changing to another school. I could go on and on about other factors too, but in the end its pointless. We all have our own opinions.

 

[molly1255]

but what are they specifically? BTW I don't think he's either .

I know that you don't.

 

[molly1255]

Really he lived the life of Riley with Shanann and the kids

Yeah, he even test drove a Tesla. The only way he was going to get a Tesla was if Shanann earned it for him through the MLM. He apparently bragged about that at work because one of his co-workers stated in an interview with LE that CW was going to get a Tesla.

He apparently then set his sights on an Audi.

 

[molly1255]

I think he was just the shell of a man, and I think "robot" is a good comparison, a robot but made of flesh and bones. He even communicated in song lyrics, after googling how to discuss love with another person. His notes to his mistress had bits of song lyrics, there was the whole thing with Battery, and he kept saying "She took my breath away" as though he had seen Top Gun a dozen times.
He did what he thought others wanted him to do, he got along, and was pleasantly surprised when NK pursued HIM, as he put it. Got along fine until the circuitry shorted out and he resorted to murder because he had no vocabulary to convey anything important to his wife.
There was no there there, even now he communicated with Lee and Coder with tidbits he could only have gotten from his family because we heard them before from that crew.
As I mentioned a few weeks ago, now that he is in prison with just a Bible, he is Mr. Bible, and that's his new identity.
No offense to truly religious people who follow the precepts of the bible.

LOL on Top Gun. True, though. I'm really surprised he didn't write NK some sappy note saying "you complete me".

 

[pocketaccent]

Regarding his Anadarko job, it was definitely hourly, so maybe he could have worked overtime until 5pm instead of getting off at 3pm. Anyway IMO, the least of his deficiencies was lack of gumption.

Very often when a cold-blooded monster like CW surfaces, money is a motive. And in this case it wasn't frustration over SW's handling of their finances that drove him to choose murder instead of divorce. It was his unimaginable greed and selfishness.

Completely agree. Money- greed- selfishness were the motives imo. As for the money part, it didn't matter if Shanann made $10,000/year or $200,000/year. It didn't matter, at all, if she was good at managing finance or not, imo. He wanted her and the children gone because divorce costs a lot of money. Raising children costs an arm and a leg.

I bet he cringed when Shanann announced she was going to start selling things in the house (and the house) once she gets back home from NC. He wanted to keep all assets for himself and NK. Imo, it also doesn't matter, at all, that they had $100 in asset or $1,000,000. He wanted them all, whatever they were, including her diamond ring, for himself and NK.

 

[DaisyKenny]

Completely agree. Money- greed- selfishness were the motives imo. As for the money part, it didn't matter if Shanann made $10,000/year or $200,000/year. It didn't matter, at all, if she was good at managing finance or not, imo. He wanted her and the children gone because divorce costs a lot of money. Raising children costs an arm and a leg.

I bet he cringed when Shanann announced she was going to start selling things in the house (and the house) once she gets back home from NC. He wanted to keep all assets for himself and NK. Imo, it also doesn't matter, at all, that they had $100 in asset or $1,000,000. He wanted them all, whatever they were, including her diamond ring, for himself and NK.

Discovery page 629. I asked CASSIE if she knew anything of CHRIS and SHANANN considering selling their house. CASSIE told me that in Scottsdale, AZ SHANANN mentioned that CHRIS had oil field insight and knew wells were going to be drilled around the area of their housing area. This will cause their value to drop and SHANANN said CHRIS wanted to sell the house before the wells were drilled. SHANANN said that they themselves were not worried about living near oil wells. She said she loves her home and did not want to leave it. CASSIE told SHANANN to talk with CHRIS about it and she said she would and said again how she loves their home. There was no plan in place to sell the house. SHANANN said she planned to talk with the realtor ANN MEADOWS. ANN helped them get into the home they live in now.
​

Actually it was CW who took the initiative in wanting to sell the house. He was so on the ball that he was checking out the realtor's website within three minutes of Shanann sending him the contact info.

But when it came time to do some menial chore like calling the a/c repair guy, CW couldn't be bothered on his day off, so Shanann had to do it herself during her work trip.

The only reason I was guesstimating her Thrive earnings is because CW was probably banking on them to keep rolling in while she was 'missing'. He sure wanted to cash in on the house, so he was clearly motivated by money.

 

[Seenit]

but what are they specifically? BTW I don't think he's either .

I mean this with all due respect, I do not mean to sound snide in this comment...but, Nikynoo, how long have you been following this case? Have you read most of the discussion posts.

 

[Misy]

If this was financially motivated, he wouldn’t need to kill the kids.

If this was all about Shanann, he would have only needed to kill her (in his mind).

He wanted a new life, I have no doubt about that.

He went the way of others who came before (family annihilators).

Only he could possibly know what played into his decision.

I think he snapped. I don’t think this was premeditated, rather perhaps just a “fantasy” that floated around in his head for 5 weeks or so. I’m so troubled by this case still and do believe he is a monster for what happened.

I think he felt emasculated by SW, and in a lot of videos she was very dismissive and snarky towards him. This is in no way victim bashing. What happened should never have happened. But one of the reasons we keep coming back here is to try to understand why.

I think NK made CW feel important, finally. Considered, respected, desired. His confidence took a massive upswing and he became embolden. When SW came home that morning, I think everything just exploded inside him.

I can’t even begin to understand how this ever could have blurred over to the girls. It’s horrifying.

 

[Seenit]

I think he was just the shell of a man, and I think "robot" is a good comparison, a robot but made of flesh and bones. He even communicated in song lyrics, after googling how to discuss love with another person. His notes to his mistress had bits of song lyrics, there was the whole thing with Battery, and he kept saying "She took my breath away" as though he had seen Top Gun a dozen times.
He did what he thought others wanted him to do, he got along, and was pleasantly surprised when NK pursued HIM, as he put it. Got along fine until the circuitry shorted out and he resorted to murder because he had no vocabulary to convey anything important to his wife.
There was no there there, even now he communicated with Lee and Coder with tidbits he could only have gotten from his family because we heard them before from that crew.
As I mentioned a few weeks ago, now that he is in prison with just a Bible, he is Mr. Bible, and that's his new identity.
No offense to truly religious people who follow the precepts of the bible.

You nailed it!

 

[Seenit]

So much about this case just doesn't make any sense. I want to be able to put all the pieces together and say, "Ah, ha! Now it makes sense!", but I know that in reality that is not going to happen.
But one of the things that just has me completely befuddled is...what do you think was CW's plan IF he had not gotten caught? What do you think was going to be his story for calling the girls' school that morning?
Do you think he was going to say that SW and him had discussed finances and divorce, and they agreed that he would call the school to disenroll the girls....and then SW just happened to take off with the girls that morning?