GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #71

[Misy]

Why would the childcare choices of a couple perplex you? What difference does it make? Where did you get your information that SHE put children in daycare, and how do you know the comparative pricing of the available childcare and schools? Do you think educating and socializing young kids is a bad idea, when both parents work full time? Do you think he murdered her because he didn't want his kids in preschool, so therefore murdered them too?

I’m sure this must have been a joint decision. It just seemed strange that she said she felt so fortunate to have found a job where she could work from home and be home with the girls. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not blaming her for putting them in preschool, just that she had stated her desire to be home with them.

 

[JDough]

TBH, I think he only know what she told him. When asked when all the money went, he just said the kids.

Respectfully; I disagree.

In addition to the fact that he was legally required to sign joint tax returns submitted to the IRS each year, he knew what the commission schedule for Thrive was. Not only was he promoting the product on his fb page, he was enjoying the luxury vehicle (with payments covered by the company), and free trips SW won. He wasn't just guessing at how much she earned.

 

[Colorado303]

The house does belong to both and a lawyer will advise that you cannot legally kick them out of the house. Technically, it's not allowed, but people do it anyway. I think this often happens when there's a light-bulb moment of clarity when the person realizes their spouse has been covertly abusing them and they have reason to be concerned it could escalate to domestic violence.

It's been established that domestic abuse can turn into domestic violence and a very good example of that happening is this case, IMO. He was having an affair and the abuse can be seen in the text message string between Shanann and a good friend of hers when Shanann was in NC. He shut her down completely, and he wouldn't talk to her. She was despondent and confused and she was trying to figure out what was going on with him. He was brutal and he was stealth about his secret life.

Not long after, CW committed the worst form of domestic violence possible. Murder. So that he could be with his AP.

JMO

True you can’t force them to get out without filing a domestic violemce complaint and getting an emergency restraining order (for all the good that does). The tricky thing is in some states lawyers will tell you not to leave the house yourself (even if you bought it and it’s in your name only) because the spouse you flee from can claim you abandoned the house and they should get it. I’m sure that varies by state but I know lawyers in NC and CO have said this.

Important! It’s a complete coincidence those states are the ones the Watts lived in. I was told that long before I even knew them.

 

[NuttMegg]

Why criticize a murdered woman for childcare choices a couple makes? But what if it had been only her decision? What does this have to do with the murders?

 

[Colorado303]

I’m really sorry for your loss, Colorado. This has affected me, and I am merely an outsider. I can’t imagine how this has been for you. Thank you for being here.

Thanks some more. I’m admittedly sensitive to victim bashing, particularly in this case. Possibly overly-so.

 

[NuttMegg]

I’m sure this must have been a joint decision. It just seemed strange that she said she felt so fortunate to have found a job where she could work from home and be home with the girls. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not blaming her for putting them in preschool, just that she had stated her desire to be home with them.

Yes, working from home allowed her to spend more time with her girls. Are you suggesting that it would have made more sense to work at a fixed income in some office? Do you think her quite successful home business contributed to her husand killing her and her babies? Why are you not criticizing her husband for not taking care of the children all day instead of working?

 

[Misy]

Thanks some more. I’m admittedly sensitive to victim bashing, particularly in this case. Probably overly-so.

You’re totally entitled. I’m afraid that I apparently don’t express my thoughts correctly, at least it’s not coming out the way I mean. I’m not criticizing Shan’ann at all, for anything although I’m afraid it’s coming across that way. You’re a good and loyal friend, and sensitive, as you should be. But not overly so. Thank you again.

 

[Pi Thoughts]

Who knows the reasoning behind some murders. No doubt it was a culmination of imagined reasons for CW. He obviously didn’t think that communicating about his grievances was a far preferable option to murder.

One of the best books I have read is called The Good Cop by an Australian homicide detective, Ron Iddles, who had a 99% success rate in capturing killers. Ron states that killers are often ordinary folk and they can murder over the simplest of things. One murder he was called to was an average family at Christmas time and somebody didn’t like their dvd present so killed the person who gave the present. People have been killed over a few dollars, jealousy, entitlement, all sort of stupid reasons.
Airdate: Ron Iddles: The Good Cop

I googled stupid reasons people kill and came up with this link:
10 People Killed (or Almost Killed!) for Stupid Reasons - History and Headlines
Absolutely absurd.

 

[molly1255]

Yes. Plus, SW knew they had problems and while in PHX was singlemindedly focused on working through them. Before she got home that night she didn’t know he was having an affair, but the thought crossed her mind. IF he had confessed to the affair I genuinely don’t think she would have reacted by kicking him out. IMO she would have wanted to try to forgive him and understand so they could be strong again together. Which would have infuriated him even more.

However, I personally don’t believe he ever admitted he was having an affair. He is far too much of an emotional coward to have that conversation. Or any honest, hard conversation. Sticking to his original plan and just killing her was much, much easier.

MOO of course

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this, Colorado. I am so very sorry for your loss.

When I was a kid, my Dad took me to a theater to see "Gone with the Wind". I was perplexed why Melanie couldn't see that Scarlett was rather evil and working against her. My Dad explained that Melanie was an incredibly good person and she was unable to fathom that someone she loved so much could be capable of evil.

That was a pretty simple explanation, but he was right. In my life, I've seen some really good people with huge hearts suffer terribly at the hands of someone who was ruthless and incapable of love.

There's no greater tragedy than what happened to Shanann and her babies, IMO, and I'll always wish the outcome had been very, very different.

 

[Lulu14]

Pretty sure I know why. She wanted the best and nothing but the best for her girls. I fully understand her sentiment as I'm also a mom. As for high cost of the school, she was working her butts off to meet her financial needs. If she wasn't so viciously killed, she would have eventually succeded, no doubt.

She was heading towards her second bankruptcy in what? 4 years? Still doing pyramid schemes? She was many things, but not good or successful with money.

 

[JDough]

Thanks some more. I’m admittedly sensitive to victim bashing, particularly in this case. Possibly overly-so.

I, along with many others, stand in awe of your sensitivity and grace when responding. I cannot even begin to tell you how many times I've had to bite my tongue (or sit on my hands) throughout these threads.

Not many of us had the privilege of knowing SW personally. You have allowed us to see what an amazing woman SW was through your eyes. Thank you for being here. I know it hasn't always been easy.

 

[JDough]

She was heading towards her second bankruptcy in what? 4 years? Still doing pyramid schemes? She was many things, but not good or successful with money.

I don't recall any documentation presented indicating that "she" was heading towards or filed for a second bankruptcy? Do you have a link for this? Are you personally aware of CW's spending habits or success with money? What bearing do you feel this has on CW's guilty plea for taking the lives of his family? Are you making assumptions and placing blame on someone other than the admitted killer? I'm just trying to understand the meaning behind your post.

 

[Colorado303]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this, Colorado. I am so very sorry for your loss.

When I was a kid, my Dad took me to a theater to see "Gone with the Wind". I was perplexed why Melanie couldn't see that Scarlett was rather evil and working against her. My Dad explained that Melanie was an incredibly good person and she was unable to fathom that someone she loved so much could be capable of evil.

That was a pretty simple explanation, but he was right. In my life, I've seen some really good people with huge hearts suffer terribly at the hands of someone who was ruthless and incapable of love.

There's no greater tragedy than what happened to Shanann and her babies, IMO, and I'll always wish the outcome had been very, very different.

You have a very wise Dad. It’s ironic—without good pure-hearted people, evil ones would never succeed.

 

[Colorado303]

She was heading towards her second bankruptcy in what? 4 years? Still doing pyramid schemes? She was many things, but not good or successful with money.

I have to disagree. That “pyramid scheme” was making a better income than many people ever see and until he killed his family they were not on their way to a second bankrupcy. The reason Shanann was so successful w/her MLM business is because she developed, supported and inspired the people who joined her team. And she trained them to do the same w/the people that joined each of them. I know quite a few of them personally and can say for a fact a good number are financially better for it and happy doing what they’re doing. Plus they have sales and marketing skills now that can open doors in many industries should they so choose. Some are doing so well they have been able to quit their day job.

Note I’m not involved w/Thrive at all and not generally a fan of MLM, but SW made it work. And this is not MOO. It’s a fact.

 

[Colorado303]

I, along with many others, stand in awe of your sensitivity and grace when responding. I cannot even begin to tell you how many times I've had to bite my tongue (or sit on my hands) throughout these threads.

Not many of us had the privilege of knowing SW personally. You have allowed us to see what an amazing woman SW was through your eyes. Thank you for being here. I know it hasn't always been easy.

Thank you! It hasn’t been easy, but it’s helped to be able to tell people about what she was really like. I’m very grateful I had the chance to know her. I’m a better person for it. And she has many friends who’ll tell you the same exact same thing.

 

[Colorado303]

I don't recall any documentation presented indicating that "she" was heading towards or filed for a second bankruptcy? Do you have a link for this? Are you personally aware of CW's spending habits or success with money? What bearing do you feel this has on CW's guilty plea for taking the lives of his family? Are you making assumptions and placing blame on someone other than the admitted killer? I'm just trying to understand the meaning behind your post.

Thank you JDough!

 

[katydid23]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this, Colorado. I am so very sorry for your loss.

When I was a kid, my Dad took me to a theater to see "Gone with the Wind". I was perplexed why Melanie couldn't see that Scarlett was rather evil and working against her. My Dad explained that Melanie was an incredibly good person and she was unable to fathom that someone she loved so much could be capable of evil.

That was a pretty simple explanation, but he was right. In my life, I've seen some really good people with huge hearts suffer terribly at the hands of someone who was ruthless and incapable of love.

There's no greater tragedy than what happened to Shanann and her babies, IMO, and I'll always wish the outcome had been very, very different.

Yes. I have seen that too. Sometimes people with good hearts want to see the best in people and they can’t fathom the darkness that some people harbor.

I think thats what happened to Joey McStay in the McStay family murders. Like Shan’Ann, he wanted to see the best in others and to help them when he could. And it ended tragically for him by not recognizing the evil lurking nearby

I wish Shansnn could have seen the evil in CWs empty eyes

 

[molly1255]

True you can’t force them to get out without filing a domestic violemce complaint and getting an emergency restraining order (for all the good that does). The tricky thing is in some states lawyers will tell you not to leave the house yourself (even if you bought it and it’s in your name only) because the spouse you flee from can claim you abandoned the house and they should get it. I’m sure that varies by state but I know lawyers in NC and CO have said this.

Important! It’s a complete coincidence those states are the ones the Watts lived in. I was told that long before I even knew them.

True, you can't force them out, but there are sometimes ways to get them to gladly go . And perhaps even have them run. I'm not recommending it, but it happens.

As for restraining orders - huge joke. A lady not far from me was recently killed by her ex boyfriend. She had a restraining order against him. She called LE when she saw him pull up, but she only had seconds to live, and they couldn't get there in time.

As for having to live under the same roof with someone you believe is a lunatic out of fear that your leaving could be construed as abandonment. That's just so sad. I've known people who have had to do that.

 

[molly1255]

Yes. I have seen that too. Sometimes people with good hearts want to see the best in people and they can’t fathom the darkness that some people harbor.

I think thats what happened to Joey McStay in the McStay family murders. Like Shan’Ann, he wanted to see the best in others and to help them when he could. And it ended tragically for him by not recognizing the evil lurking nearby

I wish Shansnn could have seen the evil in CWs empty eyes

So do I.

 

[Colorado303]

True, you can't force them out, but there are sometimes ways to get them to gladly go . And perhaps even have them run. I'm not recommending it, but it happens.

As for restraining orders - huge joke. A lady not far from me was recently killed by her ex boyfriend. She had a restraining order against him. She called LE when she saw him pull up, but she only had seconds to live, and they couldn't get there in time.

As for having to live under the same roof with someone you believe is a lunatic out of fear that your leaving could be construed as abandonment. That's just so sad. I've known people who have had to do that.

Restraining orders are worse tham worseless. I think when someone’s completely nuts and really dangerous, they often do more harm than good. Infuriates the lunatic and they’re fueled by wanting to show no piece of paper is going to stop them.