GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #72

[gitana1]

If the Watts hadn't done those interviews hateful towards dead Shan'ann, and weaponized youtube sites to spread rumors, and now the leaked hate-SW book (five chapters and almost no mention of the murdered kids), no one would be talking about them. I would have thought they were unfortunate people who should be regarded with pity but respect.

You’re right. But I had mama Watts pegged before she ever uttered one published word. Just a prediction based on other annihilators like scott Peterson.

 

[gitana1]

Yes, that may be the book, "Inside the mind of Scott Peterson" by Keith Ablow, which has many parallels between the Watts case and the
Peterson case.
The family dynamics, including the family history on both sides, are very similar.
We are apparently not allowed to discuss it here, but the case history of both Peterson and Watts and the psychology behind it is fascinating. Imo

Yes that’s the one. I have it in my collection somewhere. It was very interesting.

 

[gitana1]

Thank you - that helps a lot. What do you think makes him different from others who would go through all of this but the result is simply leaving their family versus actually murdering? Did he ever see them as something with a life outside his? Or were they prized objects like a vintage car he could dispose of when no longer adored?

My unprofessional theory is because he came from intense dysfunction. That’s my guess. Because someone raised by a narcissist parent is enmeshed with that parent. They don’t learn boundaries. And because they always have to echo the narcissistic parent’s feelings, some can have a lot of problems forming both an identity and stable attachments.

So I think he felt his family were really just extensions of himself. And since he didn’t really exist, because his identity had already been annihilated by his parents, his kids didn’t really exist. So he could annihilate them fairly easily. Problems with stable attachment probably made that easy as well.

But keep in mind, this is all amateur opinion on my part based on researching these dudes, and personality disorders and having some firsthand experience with the repercussions and manifestation of personality disorders (from my mother in law and clients or opposing parties).

I wish our psych experts would make an appearance.

In the meantime, to add, the above is how he was able to kill. But why he chose to instead of leaving like so many others do, I really think he got rid of them it’s because NK made it clear that a divorce wasn’t good enough for this guy.

Based on her text messages to him, his comments and text messages to her friend and her friend’s comments to LE, as well as her behavior and demeanor (fake praise of the girls as adorable and cute, lying about thinking it was cute that he was a dad and fake sadness about their deaths) I think NK was the type who was putting him in an impossible position. She resented that he already had kids. She at least wanted to give him his first son. My feeling is she is a deeply insecure narcissist herself so instead of just going, “Nah. I’ll pass on the family man”, I believe she pursued him knowing he was married with kids, because the challenge fed her ego, and then likely punished him for having kids and a wife, with sullenness, pouting, withdrawing, petulantly imploring him to go back to his wife and veiled threats that she would not be able to commit to a guy with kids.

I think she likely would’ve stayed with him but wanted constant reassurances that she was the most important thing in his life. So sort of a push pull thing with him. “Oh, lets go apartment hunting so we can find you a place for your girls!” Then later, quietly acting distant. “What’s wrong?” “I always wanted the guy I ended up with to have his first kids with me. Not with someone else. I just don’t know if I can do this. I want to be important and it seems you are too busy to really be there with me.”

Then of course he would desperately try to convince her she was the most important thing and hearing that from a married man with a beautiful wife and adorable kids would be intoxicatingly ego-filling for someone like her.

Some women assuage their insecurities by taking someone else’s spouse because it shows they’re so special a guy would choose her over the full family life he had.

As an aside I think had she stayed with him she would have been a terrible stepmother and would likely have fought with Shanann. She would have at first been charming with the kids but then would be sullen and inflexible and would not be able to be affectionate to what she would probably feel are interlopers in HER life.

I think she communicated some of this to CW in her attitude and behaviors and he felt if she knew his wife was pregnant it would be over.

So his desperation to keep her made him get rid of the family she already resented.

That’s my instinct about why.

 

[magicforest]

I think she communicated some of this to CW in her attitude and behaviors and he felt if she knew his wife was pregnant it would be over.

Thank you @gitana1, such a well thought out post and agree with your instincts about the why.

I also wish the psych experts would make an appearance.

I've always been curious about how NK could NOT have known Shannan was pregnant. What are your thoughts? Even though NK said she didn't know, don't the discovery docs reveal that NK had been Googling Shannan? If she had Googled Shannan, that means it was highly likely she had found SW's Facebook page and looked through it, I'm guessing frequently, and Shannan was a frequent poster. One of the first things that comes up in a Google search is someone's FB page, and SW's FB no doubt was not set to private because of her Level work. Shannan had posted the pregnancy test video on her FB and if IIRC, had made subsequent posts about the pregnancy on her FB. Therefore, it's hard to believe that if NK had found SW on FB, she would have not known Shannan was pregnant. Perhaps she did, and totally guessing here, she made a decision to not stalk her page so that she didn't feel jealous? I'm not sure how many mistresses would have that resolve. Anyway, just doesn't make sense with everything so searchable on the internet, that NK would not have known Shannan was pregnant. Wondering what your thoughts are?

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

They weren't people to him by then, if they ever had been (see the Scott Reisch interview above, he had to look up why a man would not kill his own children). He cared more about his co-workers learning about his deeds, he showed more emotion at that time than any other during the 1st interviews.
Somehow he was born, grew up, getting completely skewed by the people who raised him, IMO. There must have been something evil in him from when he was conceived and then having his female relatives enact a tug of war over how to raise him must have been horrible, all that continuous reinforcement on being "sweet". IMO

Absolutely! The part that baffles me is what was the catalyst? Was it a mix of everything? Was he a psychopath? Or did he actually love Shanann and the girls until he didn't?

 

[MassGuy]

Absolutely! The part that baffles me is what was the catalyst? Was it a mix of everything? Was he a psychopath? Or did he actually love Shanann and the girls until he didn't?

I don’t think he was ever capable of love. He was merely infatuated with Shanann when it all began, and NK during their affair.

It was all an act for him.

If you read about guys like him (family annihilators), there is always something that pushes them over the edge.

It can be anything from financial troubles, marital strife, job problems, or a host of other things.

The stresses build up, they feel trapped, and they want a new life.

For this monster, I think that financial troubles, coupled with this new woman, made him look for greener pastures.

He saw a better life on the horizon, and decided that murdering his family was the means to that end.

A happy future with his new flame.

How’d that work out for you Chris?

 

[gitana1]

Thank you @gitana1, such a well thought out post and agree with your instincts about the why.

I also wish the psych experts would make an appearance.

I've always been curious about how NK could NOT have known Shannan was pregnant. What are your thoughts? Even though NK said she didn't know, don't the discovery docs reveal that NK had been Googling Shannan? If she had Googled Shannan, that means it was highly likely she had found SW's Facebook page and looked through it, I'm guessing frequently, and Shannan was a frequent poster. One of the first things that comes up in a Google search is someone's FB page, and SW's FB no doubt was not set to private because of her Level work. Shannan had posted the pregnancy test video on her FB and if IIRC, had made subsequent posts about the pregnancy on her FB. Therefore, it's hard to believe that if NK had found SW on FB, she would have not known Shannan was pregnant. Perhaps she did, and totally guessing here, she made a decision to not stalk her page so that she didn't feel jealous? I'm not sure how many mistresses would have that resolve. Anyway, just doesn't make sense with everything so searchable on the internet, that NK would not have known Shannan was pregnant. Wondering what your thoughts are?

Yeah we talked about this back then. It seems she had to have known Shanann was pregnant based on the timing of her internet searches.

I don’t know if she and CW talked about it. What do you think?

 

[MassGuy]

Yeah we talked about this back then. It seems she had to have known Shanann was pregnant based on the timing of her internet searches.

I don’t know if she and CW talked about it. What do you think?

I think CW wouldn’t tell law enforcement if they did talk about it, and NK would lie if asked the question.

CW would do that because he probably still sees a future with her, insane as that is.

NK just wants to save face.

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

I don’t think he was ever capable of love. He was merely infatuated with Shanann when it all began, and NK during their affair.

It was all an act for him.

If you read about guys like him (family annihilators), there is always something that pushes them over the edge.

It can be anything from financial troubles, marital strife, job problems, or a host of other things.

The stresses build up, they feel trapped, and they want a new life.

For this monster, I think that financial troubles, coupled with this new woman, made him look for greener pastures.

He saw a better life on the horizon, and decided that murdering his family was the means to that end.

A happy future with his new flame.

How’d that work out for you Chris?

I agree, do you think if he had never met NK this wouldn't have happened?

 

[MassGuy]

I agree, do you think if he had never met NK this wouldn't have happened?

Not when it did atleast.

I don’t think he would have killed his family if he didn’t immediately see a way to this new life.

With NK, it was right there, and he could almost touch it.

Had he found someone else though, then it probably would have happened. I think he was feeling confident with his new physique, and likely would have met someone at some point.

Then all bets would be off.

 

[Gardenista]

Nothing wrong with being a 25 year old virgin, just that he never went through what the rest of us did in high school, ie the intense first obsession of sexual love, often ending in emotional disaster, but we learned from it.
He didn't go to dances or social events in high school, he stayed home watching tv with the parents. He thought even singing was wrong, along with dancing, drinking, etc. His mother heard him going through religious verbalizations in an OCD manner in the bathroom. His mother always quizzed him on what he was thinking. His mother and her mother, who took care of CW did not get along.

This fits into what you were saying, so far, he gets to 25 and never was in a situation where he would have to show individuality or anything out of the mold = nice guy. He occupies his place in his marriage while SW managed things, due to his lack of stepping up to the plate, except he had a job. Assumed her ambitions at least on the surface. Assumed her love of children, at least on the surface...it's comfortable if not "real".
So, eventually he runs into the mistress and all of that is suddenly on his plate, minus children, mortgages, he wants to just switch loyalty and obedience to her, but he simply can't. The family is in his way.

He thought singing and dancing was wrong? Wow.

 

[MsBetsy]

He thought singing and dancing was wrong? Wow.

That must be why he was looking at Shanann disapprovingly in that one video of her dancing with friends.
Either that or he didn't like the idea of her having fun without him. That's what I always assumed.

He certainly didn't seem to mind all the picture sent to him of Nicole in various poses. Imo

 

[NuttMegg]

He thought singing and dancing was wrong? Wow.

Yes. Paraphrased from new book pages 12-13.

 

[Nikynoo]

He thought singing and dancing was wrong? Wow.

where does it say this? I don't believe this is true, there are plenty of videos of him singing and dancing along with the girls, remember that one in the kitchen? Was it hot diggity dog?

 

[Nikynoo]

Yes. Paraphrased from new book pages 12-13.

I don't believe this to be true, there is evidence to the contrary that we have all seen and commented on

 

[NuttMegg]

I don't believe this to be true, there is evidence to the contrary that we have all seen and commented on

You think I am not paraphrasing the book honestly? I don't understand your comment, otherwise. I am referring to his youth, and in high school, per what is reported in the new book.

 

[Nikynoo]

You think I am not paraphrasing the book honestly? I don't understand your question. I am referring to his youth, and in high school, per what is reported in the new book.

No, not you, I believe that you are paraphrasing the book. I do not believe the contents of the book in this particular instance.

 

[NuttMegg]

No, not you, I believe that you are paraphrasing the book. I do not believe the contents of the book in this particular instance.

Oh there are lots of things I don't believe in the new book (and his previous interviews). However I think his behavior as a boy and high school guy, as reported in the book does provide to me, a very good basis for what he turned out to be and how the mistress would have been quite a contrast to what he had been doing and believing at least thru high school, "per the book" (and through his marriage with Shan'ann from what we have seen) IMO. IMO the author did not make that up, it came from his family or from him. Some of that had to have come from the mother, as she is the one said to have overheard certain bizarre things, as detailed in the book. Why would Chris say that his mother overheard him? Everyone has to pick and choose what to believe, just as we all have since Aug 13, 2018.

 

[Nikynoo]

Oh there are lots of things I don't believe in the new book (and his previous interviews). However I think his behavior as a boy and high school guy, as reported in the book does provide to me, a very good basis for what he turned out to be and how the mistress would have been quite a contrast to what he had been doing and believing at least thru high school, "per the book" (and through his marriage with Shan'ann from what we have seen) IMO. Apparently the author did not make that up, it came from his family or from him. Some of that had to have come from the mother, as she is the one said to have overheard certain things, as detailed in the book. Everyone has to pick and choose what to believe, just as we all have since Aug 13, 2018.

Yes, I get that, but the author didn't interview his mother IIRC, so this is just based on CW's account. It also does not take into account the years after High School. Remember, he did not return home after leaving for college, so he must have been pretty self sufficient. IMO - only CW is responsible for the murders, no-one else. He wanted a better (in his eyes) life and made the decisions he did alone. His family has nothing to do with this.

 

[MsBetsy]

where does it say this? I don't believe this is true, there are plenty of videos of him singing and dancing along with the girls, remember that one in the kitchen? Was it hot diggity dog?

Yeah, I doubt it's true. If this is new information from the book I don't see how any if it can be considered credible, except anything taken directly from the documents or the evidence we know of.
Watts claimed he was not very religious, and he certainly didn't seem the type to disapprove of singing and dancing. Imo